game color changes in STe, what?

[Randy]

I have both a Mega STe and 4160 STe and running some programs the colors have been changed during play.  In particular, several games I have are showing odd color replacement.  In Breach, the gray writing in the text windows is now such a light color that on the white background it is virtually unreadable.  In Time Bandit, the color are so buggered that is looks awful and is unplayable or rather, just plain messed up and detracts from the whole game.  This is in TOS 2.06 and 2.05 in these machines.  I am wondering if there has been a change to the color palette in TOS 2.06 that can be changed back in the desktop, at least for breach?

[jefffulton]

I have seen this running PAL on NTSC ()and the opposite) with HDMI or VGA out to a converter box. The only mitigation I found as running bootsie. 
https://sites.google.com/site/stessential/disks-tools/bootsie 
or even easier with this program:
http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-st-50-60hz_33144.html

If one helps, let me know. I am always having to fiddle with these. 

[ParanoidLittleMan]

In real RGB mode no color change when refresh rate changes from 60 to 50 or versus. And if not using RGB, but composite out from STE or ST picture sharpness is worse too, + more noise.  I did not notice that Breach changed refresh rate. Don't remember Time Bandit.

Possible that those games are not STE color palette compatible. Combined with TOS 1.06 and later. Should try my adapts, which run via TOS 1.04 in RAM . If then is still color problem should go on RGB out, and if using it already it is most likely some HW problem - machines are really old now.

 

[Randy]

Thanks Jeff, one of the machines is a UK (4160 STe), the other is a US Mega STe which is starting to give numerous problems with floppy disks reading.  In the case of Breach, I am wondering if the palette from which the colors are chosen for the game has the one color changed from the original ST models as everything else seems to be OK. 

[Randy]

5 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said:

In real RGB mode no color change when refresh rate changes from 60 to 50 or versus. And if not using RGB, but composite out from STE or ST picture sharpness is worse too, + more noise.  I did not notice that Breach changed refresh rate. Don't remember Time Bandit.

Possible that those games are not STE color palette compatible. Combined with TOS 1.06 and later. Should try my adapts, which run via TOS 1.04 in RAM . If then is still color problem should go on RGB out, and if using it already it is most likely some HW problem - machines are really old now.

 

Yes, Peter, these are old games, some of the first to come out in the ST era.  Since both machines are showing the exact same issue, I am going to guess that 2.05/2.06 is the issue.  As funds start coming in, I think it may be necessary to use the hybrid 1.62i/2.06i ROMS you have made, although in the 4160 STe I do want to try a UK 1.62 first, I have a machine coming from the UK which may have those roms in them.  What adapts are you talking about that runs via TOS 1.04 in RAM, I am unfamiliar with that?  Thanks!

[Randy]

One other thing I should note, on the Mega STe Breach runs significantly faster, on the 4160 STe the men move slowly into position, which is the normal way this game works.  But on the Mega STe, the men run into position, very obviously faster.  What is going on with that, is the Mega STe normally running @ 16 mHz?

[Zogging Hell]

2 hours ago, Randy said:

One other thing I should note, on the Mega STe Breach runs significantly faster, on the 4160 STe the men move slowly into position, which is the normal way this game works.  But on the Mega STe, the men run into position, very obviously faster.  What is going on with that, is the Mega STe normally running @ 16 mHz?

I believe the Mega STe should boot at 8mhz and has to be 'switched' to 16mhz. There is a cache as well iirc (my Mega STe is out of action for about six years after a soldering accident ), which could effect gameplay speed. Not sure if that is on or off by default. Are you running a control panel acc or something - on you hard drive perhaps? that could alter the colours and switch on the 16mhz and cache. If not you could try running a control panel if Breach is GEM compliant. You would be able to alter the colours then as well as adjust the CPU speed. X-Control is the Atari control panel released around the time of the Mega STe and has several CPX modules to alter those things (I think General and Color are the CPXs you would want). Is your version of Time Bandit the 'demo' version (which is like a full game by itself) which launches from the desktop or the full monty version, which I think autoboots?

[jefffulton]

8 hours ago, Randy said:

Thanks Jeff, one of the machines is a UK (4160 STe), the other is a US Mega STe which is starting to give numerous problems with floppy disks reading.  In the case of Breach, I am wondering if the palette from which the colors are chosen for the game has the one color changed from the original ST models as everything else seems to be OK. 

ParanoidLittleMan (8bitchip.com) has Adapted many pf these games to work on Hard Drives (like he said in he message) he also has many adapted and fixed as floppy images. You might want to try those as a test. I love his adaptations. 

My machine is exactly the same as you first but with UK Tos 1.62. It seems yo run everything fine, but I use his adaptations with my Ultra Satan. 

[Randy]

Thanks for your response Jeff, I have another UK 520 STe coming that I hope has the 1.62 roms in it so I can try them out in my 4160 STe, although I also plan on upgrading the memory in the 520 to 4160, so in effect have two 4160 UK version STes. If it turns out the culprit is the 2.06 TOS, I am thinking of going with Peter's 1.62i/206i roms in the STe, that should get me the best of both, as he has said.  The HD/CF/SD card thing is something I look to do later this summer, just have to pay off the taxes and then earn up some more bread to order a US and/or go with the ACSI CF card adapter that is floating around, slow speeds but it should be cheap and OK for the short term.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Most of what is on this page runs via TOS 1.04 in RAM: http://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd2.php

Files D15*.FIC are TOS 1.04 GEMDOS part, without Desktop/AES - for games not using later (AUTO run, autoboot) .

T14AG.. is for those using AES - much less than previous.

And there is a big number of games not using TOS at all, except for start. Well, for some coders that was enough to make it not work from later TOS versions ?

Using TOS 1.04 has benefits: pretty much compatible with 99% games, even with those for STE. If game has code written for specific TOS version - and that's mostly joystick, keyboard read under TOS 1.00-1.02 it is relative easy to correct for 1.04, and no need to correct for all TOS versions.

And it can help in (rare) case of color palette related problems on STE:  Defender of Crown don't need then special fix of picture files.

 

Mega STE starts with regular 8 MHz. You need small proggie to switch it to 16 . After reset it will be back to 8 .

 

Randy, can you make some photo(s) with those bad colors, and post here ?

 

 

[Randy]

Will do Peter, BTW, I found out why the soldiers were moving faster on my Mega STe, because I was able to do the same on the 4160 STe and that was by enabling the blitter.  With the blitter off, the soldiers move at a walking pace, with the blitter enabled, they just scoot into position!  Pretty wild, and shows how the blitter does work well for those programs that can take advantage.  Of course Breach was never set up with the blitter in mind, I think because it runs from the desktop that it is following some of the GEM desktop protocols, be interesting to see if Time Bandits does the same!