emkay Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I tried the "stability" using the most stability problematic issue of having "clean" notes in higher frequencies on 15kHz. As I'm doing stability corrections whenever possible, the tune loops well. E1M1.XEX 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 hours ago, emkay said: I'd say the most important part with this player is that you can build the music using any editor. Then throw it through the particular converter to get the "LZSS" format. Throw them onto a cartridge and play endless pokey stuff with just one player. Yes, it's even possible to write a new tracker without having to write a new player on the A8. Attempting to update the RMT player would just bloat it (hence the numerous patches which add features and remove some) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Another thought - you could employ a "dummy" mode where a call doesn't do register updates, only bumps the pointer. Then you could keep indexes and be able to start the song at predetermined positions if needed. Sure, it might waste a frame or three doing the cue process but generally such events in games are usually if you start a new level or life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Another 15kHz tune. Known "cancelling" problems , but they are stable BattleSquadron15.xex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 12 hours ago, rensoup said: Great conversion, I just wished you'd use some PWM magic for that modern retro feel ? Thanks! 11 hours ago, VinsCool said: There is definitely a lot of room for that, I can almost taste it I used this tune mostly to test out different instruments and see how it turned out. I'm not really a fan of that PWM sound, especially when modulated to much, but I might dig into it for a new song. BTW XLent's transcription is on the atarionline.pl forum, free to download, if you want to have a try at it yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 A third one. After listening to the original ACTRaiser today ActRaiser.xex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Rybags said: Another thought - you could employ a "dummy" mode where a call doesn't do register updates, only bumps the pointer. Then you could keep indexes and be able to start the song at predetermined positions if needed. Sure, it might waste a frame or three doing the cue process but generally such events in games are usually if you start a new level or life. That wouldn't work I think. You can only decode from the start, hence the tune splitting for loop points. To start at any position you'd have to save the decoder's state (those 9*256 bytes buffers) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 hours ago, emkay said: Another 15kHz tune. Known "cancelling" problems , but they are stable BattleSquadron15.xex 12.14 kB · 5 downloads I've never heard anything from you sounding so stable until now! Clearly the LZSS stuff has done magic to make things a lot smoother. 3 hours ago, ivop said: Thanks! I used this tune mostly to test out different instruments and see how it turned out. I'm not really a fan of that PWM sound, especially when modulated to much, but I might dig into it for a new song. BTW XLent's transcription is on the atarionline.pl forum, free to download, if you want to have a try at it yourself. That's fair! I just said that because I know it can be done if someone wanted to have it. At the end, it's a matter of personal taste 2 hours ago, emkay said: A third one. After listening to the original ACTRaiser today ActRaiser.xex 6.66 kB · 4 downloads I like how we pretty much took the same approach to the modulation I kinda miss the additional harmony however, that took me a bit of work in my version. everything can be done with clever instrumentation and timing at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, VinsCool said: I've never heard anything from you sounding so stable until now! Clearly the LZSS stuff has done magic to make things a lot smoother. ... I like how we pretty much took the same approach to the modulation I kinda miss the additional harmony however, that took me a bit of work in my version. everything can be done with clever instrumentation and timing at least The main problem still is the "not complete POKEY emulation" in RMT. It's mostly correct, but the "wave creation timing" changes by the used frequency, and the volume mixing still has it's flaws. Really, a lot of "detuned" sounding depends just on the volume. Btw. here something completely different. 4 channel vibes just the overall volume doesn't really satisfy me. It simply sounds different in RMT. RaceX.xex 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 @rensoup Isn't it possible to join several tunes into one LZSS? Could be an advance, to have "one tune" at the end , where it is needed to have a whole different set of instruments, if a tracker is used. The written registers won't take care of that, if you understand Let's fill 64k, if needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 hour ago, emkay said: @rensoup Isn't it possible to join several tunes into one LZSS? Could be an advance, to have "one tune" at the end , where it is needed to have a whole different set of instruments, if a tracker is used. The written registers won't take care of that, if you understand Let's fill 64k, if needed you mean merge tunes created with different RMT patches ? yeah that can be done of course but that'd be a little clunky... the real solution would be a tracker that allows all the patches (and more) to be used together without restrictions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 6 hours ago, rensoup said: you mean merge tunes created with different RMT patches ? yeah that can be done of course but that'd be a little clunky... the real solution would be a tracker that allows all the patches (and more) to be used together without restrictions! Would be nice. But for now it would be great to have a bunch of short songs in a row just using the unpatched RMT, just for diversity. To show the features of Pokey, it is recommended to show the diversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) I did some experimental sounds tonight, turned out pretty nice I think. This one was pretty jittery when played as an exported .xex from RMT, I noticed most things using 15khz mode especially seem to behave as such. Loaded into RMT2LZSS using the LZSS16 and RMT 1.28 (unpatched), runs at 50hz. Just another song I might never fully finish because composing is hard Sketch_40_V10.obx Edited January 9, 2021 by VinsCool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 5 hours ago, emkay said: Would be nice. But for now it would be great to have a bunch of short songs in a row just using the unpatched RMT, just for diversity. To show the features of Pokey, it is recommended to show the diversity. I'll consider it... need to see if I need to make another release... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted January 9, 2021 Author Share Posted January 9, 2021 2 hours ago, VinsCool said: This one was pretty jittery when played as an exported .xex from RMT, I noticed most things using 15khz mode especially seem to behave as such. Haven't listened to it yet but are you saying it sounds better with LZSS ? I'm still puzzled why the tiny difference in handling Pokey registers between RMT and LZSS could change the sound...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 4 hours ago, rensoup said: Haven't listened to it yet but are you saying it sounds better with LZSS ? I'm still puzzled why the tiny difference in handling Pokey registers between RMT and LZSS could change the sound...? Basically, yeah. It sounds a lot more stable and consistent after the conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 Not sure why, but it seems that in irregular steps, one position of an intruments isn't played. Let's say single speed playback, and the speed of the song is 2 ticks, one VBI speed. If everything is fine, two steps of the instrument envelope should be played. But it plays only the 1st step . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 ...in RMT.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, emkay said: ...in RMT.... If that's the case, that's a bug in the RMT player IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 What's the purpose of having the colored sections in the visualization jitter back and forth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, MrFish said: What's the purpose of having the colored sections in the visualization jitter back and forth? Do you mean the scanlines that show the CPU usage, or the simulated LED bar graph? And what do you mean by jitter back and forth? Edited January 9, 2021 by ivop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ivop said: Do you mean the scanlines that show the CPU usage, or the simulated LED bar graph? And what do you mean by jitter back and forth? Look closely at the different-colored bars (P/M overlays?) in the bar graph (not the CPU usage graphics). They're constantly moving left and right. Edited January 9, 2021 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 It's really twisting. Seems really to be one of the "timing" issues I encountered on and on. As the LMSS player really seems to replay flawless, the "timing depending" tunes get played more stable but sometimes it means "more harsh" as well. But, if the tune can be adjusted more precisely , the resulting sound can be even better formed. Here is the special edit of enderdude's "sanxion redo", where I added temporary 15kHz and dedicated modulations. Now played in the LMSS player it sound like "from a cast cast" or as we say in German "aus einem Guss". endrdude.xex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) Oh, now I see it ? I just saw it on a 50Hz conversion. The player is not active when you see the jittering, so it's probably something else, i.e. a "bug" in the visualization? Edited January 9, 2021 by ivop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, emkay said: It's really twisting. Seems really to be one of the "timing" issues I encountered on and on. As the LMSS player really seems to replay flawless, the "timing depending" tunes get played more stable but sometimes it means "more harsh" as well. But, if the tune can be adjusted more precisely , the resulting sound can be even better formed. Here is the special edit of enderdude's "sanxion redo", where I added temporary 15kHz and dedicated modulations. Now played in the LMSS player it sound like "from a cast cast" or as we say in German "aus einem Guss". endrdude.xex 9.18 kB · 2 downloads Sounds great! Unfortunately there are many things wrong, like different instruments played on different keys, resulting to things sounding out of tune. It does look very stable however, I especially like the channel 2 modulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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