+Propane13 Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Hello, I had a quick question for any of you hardware people out there. I don't understand too well the hardware info for the paddles, since I'm mostly a software guy. I want to make some hardware that I could put into joystick port 1 in order to simply make a game like Astroblast detect that I have the paddle installed. I believe these games just check to see if INPT0 or INPT1 gets set (or cleared; I don't remember) after a certain amount of time. If the transition occurs, then the paddle is installed. So, I was wondering what the simplest circuit would be that does the following: 1) sets or clears inpt0 (whichever state means that the paddle is there) 2) sets or clears inpt1 (whichever state means that the paddle is there) Would I just wire pin 5 to ground (pin 8 ) fot the first case and pin 9 to GND for the second case? Or perhaps tie them to VCC? Or, do I need resistor or something so that nothing explodes? Thanks, -John K. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 ... like Astroblast detect that I have the paddle installed. I haven't checked the code, but I don't think the game "detects" the paddle or joystick at all. Disabling the paddle would require additional branching inside the display kernel. Very unlikely. I think the game simply always checks both, so if you have an adapter that allows plugin in both simultanously you should be able to use the paddle and the joystick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khryssun Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Thomas wrote : I think the game simply always checks both, so if you have an adapter that allows plugin in both simultanously you should be able to use the paddle and the joystick. Indead ! Paddles are Potentiometers (1 Kohm if i'm not wrong) with 1 switch each (fire button) and Joysticks are just 5 switches. The 2600 just read all the inputs and define each appropriate internal registers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 I think the game simply always checks both, so if you have an adapter that allows plugin in both simultanously you should be able to use the paddle and the joystick. Ok .. I just tried Astroblast with a controller splitter allowing both the paddle and the joystick to be used simultaneously. BTW: I used a 7800 console for this test. When the paddle is plugged in, the LR functions of the stick are not recognized! So if the game detects the paddle, then the joystick inputs are ignored! Interesting! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 When the paddle is plugged in, the LR functions of the stick are not recognized! So if the game detects the paddle, then the joystick inputs are ignored! Interesting! What if you remove the paddle during a game? Do the LR joystick functions work again then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Dude Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 (1 Kohm if i'm not wrong) You are It's 1 Meg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 What if you remove the paddle during a game? Do the LR joystick functions work again then? Ok, I just had a quick look at the code myself. Whenever you start a new game, Astroblast tries to detect if there is a paddle. Here is the code: lda #$82 sta VBLANK ; dump paddle ports to ground ldx #$00 Lfb7f: bit INPT0 bpl Lfb88 dex bne Lfb7f beq Lfb9a Lfb88: lda #$02 sta VBLANK ; remove dump ldx #$20 Lfb8e: ldy #$00 Lfb90: iny bne Lfb90 dex bne Lfb8e bit INPT0 bpl Lfba0 Lfb9a: lda $bc ; disable(?) paddles ora #$40 sta $bc Lfba0: rts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 What if you remove the paddle during a game? Do the LR joystick functions work again then? No .. The Left function (pin3) is the same as the Paddle Fire. So when I unplug the Paddle, the player moves to the far left and the Stick Left functions as Fire. Sorry .. that code is .. umm .. beyond me! Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Sorry .. that code is .. umm .. beyond me! Never mind, that one was for John. And you just confirmed what the code told me. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Propane13 Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 ldx #$20 Lfb8e: ldy #$00 Lfb90: iny bne Lfb90 dex bne Lfb8e bit INPT0 bpl Lfba0 Hmmm... this doesn't seem to be all encompassing. Last I remember, the worst-case that I had for paddle detection when the paddle was at maximum resistance was 400 scanlines. So, if your paddle is at full resistance, it may not get detected. See this stella list link for confirmation: http://www.biglist.com/lists/stella/archiv...7/msg00146.html So, since there are no WSYNCs in this loop, how many WSYNCs does it equate to (just computationally, by cycles)? If your paddle is at maximum resistance, will it not get detected? Perhaps some more experiments are in order. Thanks, -John K. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 So, since there are no WSYNCs in this loop, how many WSYNCs does it equate to (just computationally, by cycles)? About 41,000 cycles, that's ~540 scanlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricDeLee Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 I know this may not be the place to ask... but damn it... I need some experts to weigh in on this! Okay... I've mentioned my Atari 2600 Tabletop project a few times... and a few preople seem to like the idea. ( I know I do!) It's not as splendid and wonderful as Ben's portable... and the other guy that is listed in these forums (the guy that made his portable out of a Radio Shack project box... very nice looking). Anyways... mine is not PORTABLE in any sense. It is something that is supossed to look a minature arcade game... roughly the size of a small bartop arcade game you sometime see while chugging back orders of Jack and Coke. The color scheme... well... it's simple: The Atari 2600's color scheme (or close to it). My whole idea was to get the atari to use arcade controls. I've already tested the buttons.. those were easy to figure out. I haven't tried testing the joystick yet... (waiting to order my stuff from Hap Controls). Someone told me that I would only need a four way joystick... but.... I was unsure about that. Do I need an 8-Way? I know there are plenty of games where you can go diagonal (Star Wars Arcade would be hard as hell if it were only four way). Either way... the wiring of the joystick looks to be very easy as well (four wires... and a ground). If anyone can tell me which joystick is better (4-way or 8-way) that would be appreciated. Then, I decided to toy around with an old Tempest spinner I had. I got to thinking... how well would that work as a paddle/driving controller? I know that the paddles stop after a certain point (270 degrees or so). But I don't really NEED it to stop. It's not like I plan on spinning that thing with all of my strength (like when playing Tempest). Anyways... enough of that. lol I can figure out the best way to use it after I get it working. The problem I am having is figuring out how to wire this bad boy up, and if it is even possible. I can use a regular Pot.. and make the paddle just like the Atari paddles... but if I can get the spinner to work, I'd rather have it for the more 'arcade' feel that it has. But... How the hell does it get wired??? lol Here is a replica of the Tempest Spinner: http://www.oscarcontrols.com/vortex/ The wiring schematics are below: +5V GND S1 S2 Umm... does anyone have a good theory as to HOW I can hook that up to the Atari? I can't figure it out. Also... if anyone can figure out where I need to hook up the lights that are located in the small cone-shaped buttons commonly used as START buttons... please let me know. I've got a couple of them from an old Tempest control Panel that I'd like to work into my project. I have looked for pictures of them on the internet... but I can't find the schematics anywhere. I think I just need a place that will supply +5v to it... but I'm not really sure. so... after all of that... if anyone can help me... please post a comment! A quick rundown: 1. will the spinner work... and if so... how should I connect it to the Atari? 2. Do I need an 8-Way joystick or is 4-Way all I really need? 3. Anyone know how to hook up the cone-shaped mini buttons so that I can make the light work? Thanks........ Eric DeLee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricDeLee Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Finally found a picture of the buttons I mentioned in the above post: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=13718 Of all places... the picture was on ebay. lol Anyone know how I can hook that up to my Atari? I will be using 1 button for the Reset button... and I'm not really sure about the other one. Perhaps just that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viso Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Eric, the Tempest spinner looks like it has the same interface as the driving controller, but I don't know that it'll make a good replacement. The driving controller uses a 16 position switch; I have no clue about the spinner. If I'm not mistaken, some games get 32 position resolution from the paddles, so if the spinner uses a 16 position switch, then it may not make a good replacement for paddles. Even if you really wanted to use the spinner for paddle input, it isn't trivial. I think you'd need to use a microcontroller to read from the spinner and provide timed output to emulate a paddle. As for the 4 vs 8 direction thing, I don't understand. I think having 8 direction output is the way to go, but that only takes 4 switches. How can a 4 direction joystick be made? Seems like 8 direction should be easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricDeLee Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Thank you for the reply. I got pretty much all I needed out of that! The only thing left is to find out where to run the wires to make the light work in the button that I will use for the reset button. Everything else should be easy. Hopefully.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricDeLee Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 What I was referring to on the 8-way joysticks and the 4-way joysticks was basically... which should I use for this project. lol I see a few different styles at Happ Controls, but I was getting conflicting information as if I needed a 4-way or an 8-way. They are both the same price... so I guess I'll figure it out sooner or later. besides... I may need to order extra stuff for other projects to cover the minimum ordering amount over at Happs. Perhaps I'll just pick-up one of each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hey Eric: When I made mine, I used 8-way joysticks, although it really depends on the individual game. Atari standard joysticks are 8-way, with (for instance) up+left being diagonal NorthWest, etc. If you wanted true 4-way for certain games (Ms.Pac-Man, Maze Craze, etc) Maybe you should think about getting the T-Stick from Ultimarc (I just picked up two) it has a switch on the side to go between 4 and 8 way. As far as lighting the buttons, I used those same ones on an arcade machine I built, and I had connected +5v to one lead and ground to another (actually, I had them connected to a KE-72 which puts out +5v and the Caps, Scroll, and Num lock buttons - because MAME uses them as credit indicators). but +5v and ground should work for you. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.