Spurious files all over my US SD cards from?

[Randy]

I mentioned earlier that I was seeing system~1, system~2 which is said to come from god damn microsoft.  Moved to download files on my mac and now I have fseven~1 and spotli~1 files, WTF!  These two are not removable in GEM, and the spotli~1 files are huge according to "show info", although I see no files in those folders.  Anyone know what is going on and if I can use something to remove this crap?  Thanks

[larrylaffer]

Use kobold. It can delete them. 

[Randy]

10 hours ago, larrylaffer said:

Use kobold. It can delete them. 

Thanks Larry!

[calimero]

fseven~1 and spotli~1 are crap from Mac OS X.  
 

there is utili “Blue harvester” for Mac os x that remove these folders from usb...

[Randy]

5 hours ago, calimero said:

fseven~1 and spotli~1 are crap from Mac OS X.  
 

there is utili “Blue harvester” for Mac os x that remove these folders from usb...

Thanks calimero, I was thinking they were from moving the files on the mac to the SD card, won't make that mistake again!  Macs used to be such great computers, now they are overpriced garbage, this coming from a 30 year user who won't ever by another mac again!

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Calm down folks, please. You blaming Apple for not taking care about how their OS does something not good for 30+ years old computer and it's OS.

But whole thing started in 1995, so 26 years ago, with introducing long file names. The real problem is not that they add some shorter files on removable storage, but that it causing some bad things - like bad disk usage data, unable to delete those strange name files on Atari ... 

And even without that modern OS-es like Win and Mac OS write some index and like files on media, long file names can be problem when user does not care while copies files to Atari media - must take care that all what copies has 8.3 filename - like all letters capital. If not, same problem mentioned above appears, and that's worse than seeing  some unwanted short files there.

This problem exists for long time as said, but it is now much more spread because cheap Flash cards and massive usage of them, easy file transfers. Still, users need to take care.

I will make Atari program what will remove all those extra LFN fields, and then users can delete this unwanted files without problems. But I'm curious how Win will act when there is only 8.3 filename left. So, need to make some test about it. I guess that will generate all it again ..

[ParanoidLittleMan]

I made test about what happens when delete extra (and for TOS dangerous) fields of LFN for System Volume Information  folder - and as expected, all it was created again, same as when 8.3 DIR record is deleted too . So, deleting it is good, but not permanent solution - like with many of people - you fix their errors, and they will do it or similar over and over again ?

So, for those doing frequently connection of their Atari Flash cards to PC (MAC) delete is not really good solution - mold will grow again.

Solution:  use Linux - at least I hope that new versions did not  start with similar index or whatever DIR adding.

LFN filtering at Atari.

 

I will start thread in programming section about LFN, so who wants to see it in detail can look there .

[calimero]

Probably leser know fact is that Microsoft almost lost its pattent on vfat because of Atari programers:

 

https://www.wired.com/2012/03/ms-patent/
 

(in article author mention “Amiga” instead of Atari users!)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_of_the_FAT_file_system#VFAT
 

there are many cases that predate Microsoft “idea” of long file name problem but I think that Micro$oft got patents on VFAT since they sue everybody in early 2000s. 
 

Bill Gates get away with this, like he get away with getting ISO standard for DOCX, like he get away with Digital Research and CP/M...

 

And today he will decide when we will be “get to normal”: https://www.corbettreport.com/who-is-bill-gates-full-documentary-2020/

[ParanoidLittleMan]

First I need to say that VFAT is very misleading name. Long file names have nothing with FAT. And I don't believe that MS needed to steal it from anyone. The whole thing is pretty simple, and some better programmer can solve whole thing in max 1 week. Actually, hardest part is keeping compatibility, and that's not done too good. It should be compatible with older SW. Maybe is compatible with MS DOS, because it already did not  handle that mentioned 'impossible' attribute combination . But most likely it is not only TOS where it causes problems. Although, that's good for MS - more reasons that people buy their SW instead other.

Btw. MS recently started to use extended FAT32 in Win 10, and some Flash cards what I bought recently were formatted with it - while is not supported by others.

And what is extended FAT32 - only thing is that it allows files longer than 4 GB . Again, something very simple .

 

And all that DRI, CP/M talk - look recent threads about TOS history here, it's clear that CP/M was not up to some serious home/business computer designed for hard disk usage. That's why Atari needed several months to put together FAT16 support, with subdirectories etc.   DRI should work on better 68000 compiler, and maybe then even Atari sales would be better. What's the point to make FAT16 with Intel byte order, and then being not compatible with DOS FAT16 partititions ?

And DOS FAT16 means not MS DOS - there was DRI DOS for PC too - remember ? It's always easier to blame some other for failure. I don't think that Bill and MS are saints but lot of accusements are plain stupid.  Actually, I will say again: PC prevailed because HW and SW manufacturers were forced to keep to standards.

Atari was not, unfortunately - otherwise we wouldn't need now TOS/DOS compatible partitioner and driver SW .

 

And some related things: World is not going in right direction - example of HDMI connectors - now every manufacturer using it must pay some larger amount to HDMI consortium of whatever it is called. I'm sorry ? For connector ?  Yes, it is well designed, robust, but still, it is not Wankel motor. Or in last about 10 years all DOCs for Compact Flash cards are not DL-able for free, as before, because CF Consortium wants money. What's next ? Total stoopid, because surely HDMI connector manufacturers are those who should pay to inventors, and that is the case, I'm sure. No, that's not enough for some. Like previous year it was not enough for banks to raise diverse fees, they added extra fee for paying with debit card - while everyone talked that should rather pay that way instead not sanitary cache. Or it was right because that ? Mad world.

And greed is not new thing, of course. In 19-th Century someone patented crankshaft. That forced inventors to use some complicated ways, just to avoid paying to ...  Eventually, patent offices added rule that very simple things can not be patented.   Well, it looks that about 200 years later some don't like it, and who cares about what was in those fossil years.   Time for new signo ..