Planned successor to Nokia N-Gage QD found! ("N-Gage IC")

[derSammler]

Just as you described:

 

Rayman 3 - works with no issues

Operation Shadow - works fine, too. Colors were completely messed up after playing one mission and returning to the menu, however

The Sims - crashes "Main" app and then stuck at showing the loading screen

Edited October 6, 2021 by derSammler

[BodyZ]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that Operation Shadow "breaks" colors in menu after you started a game and returned to it.

 

Well, as you said, it is based on as much generic Symbian 7.0s as possible.

 

Later I will post last batch of games I wanted to see how they work on your unit.

Something with vibration support, because, I guess you remember, this was one of the selling point of QD)

 

And since you already installed X-plore, I would kindly ask you to take a copy of contents of the Z:/ drive.

I guess after analyzing it we may uncover some additional information about this unit.

[derSammler]

Don't worry, a dump of z: has been made already and sent to people who will take care of it.

 

(due to strict copyright laws here in Germany, you won't see it leaked by me)

[derSammler]

First post updated with some confirmed information.

[BodyZ]

Here is the last batch of games I wanted you to try on this unit.

Main theme here is vibration support.

 

SSX Out of Bounds - should run fine, with some minor partial "wrong color" issues

Mile High Pinball - should run fine, but with mild partial "wrong color" issues

The Roots Gates of Chaos - should run totally fine

 

Another interesting fact - default theme on this unit is also used in 7610 firmware as one of the default themes.

 

Mile_High_Pinball.zip SSX_Out_of_Bounds.zip The_Roots_Gates_of_Chaos.zip

[derSammler]

Thanks, will try them out tomorrow.

 

On the proto, that theme is "Theme 2", which it defaults to also after a factory reset. There's also a Classic theme that will make it look like Symbian 6.1.

 

Wondering if the camera app from the 7610 would work on the proto. Or any other 3rd-party camera app for S60.

Edited October 8, 2021 by derSammler

[BodyZ]

Yeah, it would be interesting to try camera apps from retail S60 devices, but unfortunatelly, all apps from Z:/ drive after copying to C:/ or E:/ stop launching, so we can't test it.

But you can try 3rd-party camera apps. There was some. I attached what I saved for myself long time ago.

 

Please, clarify, your unit doesn't even have any build-in camera app at all or it won't launch?

Because you only mentioned camera on your site, and it doesn't say much.

"However, the early firmware on the device does not seem to support the camera."

 

Oh, and to be shure, please check if there are folders:

Z:/System/apps/Camcorder/

Z:/System/apps/Camera/

Z:/System/apps/VideoRecorder/

 

Because, if there is no camera app on menu, than maybe it's just got "hidden" flag in firmware, but actually there.

And if some of this folders are there, than you can simply try launching it by pressing on the .app file.

 

P.S. As far as I know, all S60v2.0-S60v2.1 devices have "Classic" theme, which looks exectly like S60v1.x (Symbian 6.1).

And yes, it would be more correct to call OS versions by S60 version, because, Symbian 7.0s was foundation for many other interfaces:

Spoiler

 

    EKA1
Symbian 6.1 - S60v0.9 - S60v1.2, S80v1.0
Symbian 7.0s - S60v2.0 - S60v2.1, S80v2.0, S90v1.0 - S90v2.0, UIQv2.0 - UIQv2.1
Symbian 8.0a - S60v2.6
Symbian 8.1a - S60v2.8

    EKA2
Symbian 9.1 - S60v3.0, UIQv3.0 - UIQv3.1
Symbian 9.2 - S60v3.1, UIQv3.2
Symbian 9.3 - S60v3.2

Symbian 9.4 (Symbian^1) - S60v5.0
Symbian^3/Anna - S60v5.1
Symbian Belle/Belle Refresh - S60v5.3
Symbian Belle FP1 (Carla) - S60v5.4
Symbian Belle FP2 (Donna) - S60v5.5

 

 

You can determine what subversion of S60v2 your unit have by navigating to Z:/System/Install/

It should have files like this

If there is "Series60v2.1.sis" file there, than most likely it is S60v2.1, like on 7610, 6260, 3230 and most other devices.

If last file there is "Series60v2.0.sis", than it is based on S60v2.0, like on 6600 and Panasonic X700.

 

Another simple way to determine if it's S60v2.0 or S60v2.1 is by checking if your unit have "end-to-end scrolling".

You may noticed that on N-Gage and other Symbian 6.1 (S60v0.9 - S60v1.2) devices, when you scroll lists and reach it's end, nothing happens when you press down one or more times, to "scroll" to the begining of the list.

This is also present on S60v2.0 devices like Nokia 6600 and Panasonic X700.

So, if you can scroll lists infinitely, and reaching one "edge" of the list doesn't stop further scrolling, than it's S60v2.1. 

You can try this in "Options" of the main menu or any other "list" like that.

 

Camcorder_6600_and_other.zip

[derSammler]

44 minutes ago, BodyZ said:

Please, clarify, your unit doesn't even have any build-in camera app at all or it won't launch?

There's no app. The libs are all there (CameraServer.exe etc.) and that "Camcorder" link on the home screen. But that one doesn't do anything. I assume the app was not ready at that point in time. It was an upgrade from the earlier 640x480 camera, so I guess it was to be rewritten for the new hardware. Though I'd assume the 7610 used the same camera hardware given the time frame. On the other hand, the specs don't seem to match what the STV0976 controller supports.

 

Quote

If there is "Series60v2.1.sis" file there, than most likely it is S60v2.1, like on 7610, 6260, 3230 and most other devices.

Yes, there is. Same files as on your screenshot.

Edited October 9, 2021 by derSammler

[BodyZ]

OK, but to be sure that it's actually S60v2.1 please check "loop scroll" of list, like I mentioned. 

 

4 hours ago, BodyZ said:

Another simple way to determine if it's S60v2.0 or S60v2.1 is by checking if your unit have "end-to-end scrolling".

You may noticed that on N-Gage and other Symbian 6.1 (S60v0.9 - S60v1.2) devices, when you scroll lists and reach it's end, nothing happens when you press down one or more times, to "scroll" to the begining of the list.

This is also present on S60v2.0 devices like Nokia 6600 and Panasonic X700.

So, if you can scroll lists infinitely, and reaching one "edge" of the list doesn't stop further scrolling, than it's S60v2.1. 

You can try this in "Options" of the main menu or any other "list" like that.

 

Waiting for you to try games tomorrow, and maybe that 3rd-party camcorder software I uploaded.

[derSammler]

Yes, it is. Also confirmed by SPMark04, which I just run. (confirmed CPU speed again as well).

 

It scored 566 on the proto. Stock QD is 495.

 

More results to follow.

Edited October 9, 2021 by derSammler

[derSammler]

None of the camera apps worked. They all cause crashes in various parts of the internal camera libs.

[BodyZ]

1 hour ago, derSammler said:

None of the camera apps worked. They all cause crashes in various parts of the internal camera libs.

Well, looks like that firmware is a really early build, and camera software part wasn't implemented properly.

5 hours ago, derSammler said:

Yes, it is.

OK, than now it's confirmed that it's running S60v2.1, and most likely 7610 firmware was taken as a base.

 

5 hours ago, derSammler said:

Also confirmed by SPMark04, which I just run. (confirmed CPU speed again as well).

 

It scored 566 on the proto. Stock QD is 495.

Thanks. 

 

5 hours ago, derSammler said:

More results to follow.

Looking forward to this 

[derSammler]

Mile-High Pinball: crashes at the title screen

SSX: works, small color errors on screen transitions and some audio issues (jerky with cracks)

The Roots: crashes after showing the very first Nokia N-Gage screen

[BodyZ]

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that MHP and Roots requires to have Bluetooth switched on prior to starting the game on non-N-Gage hardware.

SSX - yeah, that's exactly how it runs on S60v2.0-S60v2.1 devices)

 

And I also remembered something about CMR 2005.

Wrong colors in this game can be fixed with call in background.

Does your unit have working cellular network?

 

And later I want to find some more 3rd-party camera apps, because what I uploaded earlier was for video capture.

And I want to try something that was for capturing images. Maybe it will work, but most likely not.

[derSammler]

10 minutes ago, BodyZ said:

Does your unit have working cellular network?

No idea, since I'm running it with a dummy SIM. But even if it has working hardware for that, I don't have any active SIM with 2G support.

 

I give it another go with Bluetooth turned on later.

[BodyZ]

Here some additional camera apps to try.

This are for taking photos only, so maybe they will work.

Camera_apps_S60v2.zip

[derSammler]

No dice! Camera FX does not start, the other two cause a crash in the CamCore lib. It's safe to say that software support for the camera was not implemented at that time.

[BodyZ]

Well, at least we tried)

 

On 10/10/2021 at 6:16 PM, derSammler said:

I give it another go with Bluetooth turned on later.

Looking forward for it.

 

From your tests of N-Gage games we know, that this unit most likely, doesn't have at all any adaptations to make it N-Gage compatible like original models.

Interesting, how Nokia was planning to fix this issues, if this unit would ever was released.

 

Oh, does your unit have G:/ drive? It's not visible by X-plore, but I know for sure that visible by FileMan (by Symbianware).

It was added in QD, and I think it has something to do with integrated N-Gage Arena app on QD.

 

And on QD it's actually virtual disk, and it shows contents of "Z:\Nokia\http_mirror\" folder in that G:\ drive.

Does you unit have this folder and this drive?

[derSammler]

 

Just a quick video. More later.

 

I don't think there was a G: drive, but I will re-check. Z:\Nokia\http_mirror does not exist.

[derSammler]

14 hours ago, BodyZ said:

Interesting, how Nokia was planning to fix this issues, if this unit would ever was released.

Even though I only have a couple of small hints regarding this yet (no proof or even confirmation), it seems it was never intended to play existing N-Gage games but was to have its own library of games. Even the Nokia guy made a statement to me saying it tanked because game development didn't catch up. I asked for clarification, but no answer yet.

 

On the other hand, the number of games at that time wasn't that huge. They could have implemented a database knowing each game and containing patches the system would apply in real-time to fix the games on the new platform.

Edited October 12, 2021 by derSammler

[BodyZ]

11 hours ago, derSammler said:

Even though I only have a couple of small hints regarding this yet (no proof or even confirmation), it seems it was never intended to play existing N-Gage games but was to have its own library of games. Even the Nokia guy made a statement to me saying it tanked because game development didn't catch up. I asked for clarification, but no answer yet.

Well, there is another possible variant - digital distribution of special versions of N-Gage games.

Asphalt Urban GT that I uploaded here is specifically made for S60v2 version of that game, and it can't be launched on original N-Gage and N-Gage QD models at all.

 

But if they didn't plan to make it possible to play existing N-Gage games on this unit, than I don't get why they kept full sized MMC slot with hotswap from QD.

 

I guess, we'll never know for sure how it was planned.

 

On 10/8/2021 at 11:06 PM, derSammler said:

On the proto, that theme is "Theme 2", which it defaults to also after a factory reset.

You mentioned factory reset. You've tried it by codes *#7370# and *#7780# i guess?

And since we talking about resets, what about "hard reset from switched off state via pressed keys - call button, * and 3 with Power button, like on 6600 and newer"?

 

23 hours ago, derSammler said:

 

Just a quick video. More later.

 

I don't think there was a G: drive, but I will re-check. Z:\Nokia\http_mirror does not exist.

Thanks for the video, but why vertical and 720p only? N-Gage is horizontal device) Come on, show is it in it's full horizontal glory in 4K 60fps or something)))

 

P.S. And what about MHP and Roots? Did switching on Bluetooth made them run?

Edited October 12, 2021 by BodyZ

[derSammler]

45 minutes ago, BodyZ said:

But if they didn't plan to make it possible to play existing N-Gage games on this unit, than I don't get why they kept full sized MMC slot with hotswap from QD.

First, even hotswap is not implemented. Second, all their S60 phones at that time had an MMC slot. Why remove it when the basic design taken from the QD did not change anyway?

 

45 minutes ago, BodyZ said:

Thanks for the video, but why vertical and 720p only? N-Gage is horizontal device) Come on, show is it in it's full horizontal glory in 4K 60fps or something)))

Who cares, that is just a quick video. I only have two hands and could not fix the phone horizontally. Once I have the main room of my museum fully set up and can do proper video shooting, I'll do a comprehensive video review.

 

Had no time to do any further testing. Been busy with real-life stuff.

Edited October 12, 2021 by derSammler

[BodyZ]

On 10/5/2021 at 6:20 PM, derSammler said:

But it plays back MP3 files in stereo using the same app as the NEM-4 did

What about playback quality? Does it sounds similar to how N-Gage and 3300 did?

Does it have settings with equalizer and bass booster like in NEM-4 N-Gage? 

Does it have line-in recording functionality, like NEM-4 N-Gage has? 

 

And have you tried any headphones with your unit?

Because I'm wondering, what pinout it uses.

For stereo it must be something like in HS-47 headphones with OMTP pinout, but as far as I know, Nokia didn't have 2.5 - 3.5 mm stereo headphones jack and was using their infamous Pop-port mostly.

Edited October 15, 2021 by BodyZ

[derSammler]

Have to test all that later, still busy with other things.

 

Headphone jack has 5 pins (L, R, GND, Mic, call-answer button). The QD had that already, it just did not separate L/R.

[BodyZ]

13 hours ago, derSammler said:

Have to test all that later, still busy with other things.

Looking forward for it!

13 hours ago, derSammler said:

Headphone jack has 5 pins (L, R, GND, Mic, call-answer button). The QD had that already, it just did not separate L/R.

It doesn't work like that.

5th pin is for detection that something is inserted in headphones jack.

In normal state its shorted, and if we insert something to headphones jack circuit breaks and phone knows something has been connected to it and switch sound output to headphones.

 

Here, take a look at HS-7 headset scheme.

 

And here is stereo 2.5 mm HS-47

 

 

As you can see, 4 pins on both of them are used in completely different way.

Therefore we can't use more "modern" headphones like HS-47, nor 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm adapters on N-Gage QD.

 

That's why I'm interested how it's all done in your unit.