Atari 800 keycaps STL 3D printer files wanted for full keyboard caps & plungers (Stackpole yellow version)

[Beeblebrox]

I had a quick look for these on AA and Google. Whilst there is a project for replacing the 800's keyboard PCB using modern Cherry switches and 3D printed adapters with the original Atari 800 keycaps - there aren't any STL files for a full each keycap or the plungers.

 

I have an 800 coming with a keyboard I identified as a Stackpole type (yellow parts), which is completely missing the keycaps and also the yellow plungers. I was hoping to 3D print all of them. I understand the keycaps are generic for both Hi-tek and stackpole 800 keyboards. 

 

There is a slight break in the plastic assembly for the U key in the above image which I hope I can easily fabricate an easy fix for.

I also assume the yellow plungers are missing.

 

Any ideas if the STL files have been created for a full compliment of keycaps and the yellow plunger stackpole compatible parts? In terms of keycaps I would need in particular the spacebar, control, tab, caps and shift keycaps. This is because I know there exists this generic key STL for the other 800 keycaps below on Thingyverse - so really it's only the above keycap and plunger STL files needed.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3927930

 

I found this thread on AA which helped me identify what is required. 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/221978-atari-800-not-xl-keyboard-basics/

 

I also believe that the plungers would need to be printed smoothly on a higher end 3D printer in order to ensure they would be strong and smooth enough to function correctly and not catch.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Trying to source a full replacement Hi-tek or Stackpole keyboard or the original 800 keycaps/plungers has proven impossible, (I am in the UK).

 

Incidentally at this stage whilst I wait to receive the 800 itself, there is no guarantee the rest of the keyboard components here work of course.

 

Looking forward to restoring this 800. It is in a poor state.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Beeblebrox

[+slx]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:07 AM, Beeblebrox said:

Looking forward to restoring this 800. It is in a poor state.

 

Did you ever get any measures and / or STL files for the required parts?

 

During our local Maker Fair an Italian company presented a pneumatic "budget" injection molding machine that allows for manufacture of small injection-molded parts at much less than the numbers usually quoted. It was quoted at 1500€ and of course still needs molds, for which they sell pre-fabricated blocks of aluminum that need to be CNC-milled. They state that 3D-printed molds are suitable as well if placed into a metal shell. Maybe this is a way to get replacement parts made that cannot be 3D-printed. 

[Beeblebrox]

@slx  Unfortunately not. I'd love to find a viable option but as you outline there are ways but they ain't cheap.

[wildstar87]

I think a Resin 3D printer would have the resolution you would need.  Screamingattheradio's 130XE Mechanical keyboard project, initially had replacement stems specifically for the Kalih Box Switch.  Apparently JLPCB also does 3D printing on both Resin, and FDM printers as well.  I think all you would need is a 3D model of the plunger.

Edited June 6, 2023 by wildstar87

[Beeblebrox]

Sure. The main issue really is that there are three different types of 800 keyboard. 

 

Hi-tek.and Stackpole, (of which single keycaps are interchangeable but not others), and mistsumi (mylar), of which keycaps are not cross compatible with either of the former.

 

The positions are offset differently for these wider keycaps depending on whether hi-tek or Stackpole. 

 

There exists only a couple of variations of the single keycap in stl, and only one editable tinker cad version of a single keycap I know of. 

I can printout acceptable single keycaps in pla+ on a filament based 3d printer which will suit hi-tek and Stackpole. However nowhere exists the specific compatible cad or stl files for the Stackpole or hitek versions of the wider keycaps, (return, tab, shift keys, etc etc). 

 

My cad skillset isn't good enough to create these from scratch. 

 

 

[wildstar87]

Yeah, sorry, I don't currently have the expertise in 3D modeling to do anything like that.  Maybe if it's simple enough, you could talk to Screamingattheradio, to see if he can create the plunger, that seems like it would be less complex, than the stem he created for the switch.  Not sure about the keycaps though.  If he was willing to do it, he would need to have physical examples of each, I think.

[DrVenkman]

It’s really not the keycaps that are the issue for most 800’s (at least, if they haven’t fallen out and gotten lost). It’s those damned cracked plunger housings. I have a friend who is a professional 3D modeler with half a dozen resin printers that could crank out whatever I could need, but replacing the existing plungers would need the user to disassemble the keyboard and desolder/remove the existing coiled copper spring contact inside. 

A FAR better solution would be a complete custom replacement keyboard PCB with matching mechanical keymechs and keycaps. The tooling and setup costs for full-on manufacturing, however, would not be cheap. I’m kind of surprised no one has designed a PCB for DIY hobbyists yet though. 

[ACML]

9 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

It’s really not the keycaps that are the issue for most 800’s (at least, if they haven’t fallen out and gotten lost). It’s those damned cracked plunger housings. I have a friend who is a professional 3D modeler with half a dozen resin printers that could crank out whatever I could need, but replacing the existing plungers would need the user to disassemble the keyboard and desolder/remove the existing coiled copper spring contact inside. 

A FAR better solution would be a complete custom replacement keyboard PCB with matching mechanical keymechs and keycaps. The tooling and setup costs for full-on manufacturing, however, would not be cheap. I’m kind of surprised no one has designed a PCB for DIY hobbyists yet though. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you can easily pull the white Hi-Tek and yellow Stacklpole plungers straight up with a pair of needle nose pliers.  The replacement one pops right back in easily.  You just have to take care not to damage the gold finger contacts.  Making a replacement plunger is going to be a real challenge as the wall thickness is very small and the surface hardness and smoothness are critical to not binding on the keycap.  I'm sure a 3D printer could make the part, just doubt it will be smooth enough on the inner walls to not cause binding on the keycap.

  

[Beeblebrox]

Yeah, I agree, 3D printed plunger replacements (at least on filament printers), would likely be too rough and need sanding with fine grit sand or emery paper. 

[DrVenkman]

6 hours ago, ACML said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you can easily pull the white Hi-Tek and yellow Stacklpole plungers straight up with a pair of needle nose pliers.  The replacement one pops right back in easily.  You just have to take care not to damage the gold finger contacts.  Making a replacement plunger is going to be a real challenge as the wall thickness is very small and the surface hardness and smoothness are critical to not binding on the keycap.  I'm sure a 3D printer could make the part, just doubt it will be smooth enough on the inner walls to not cause binding on the keycap.

  

 

A modern resin printer could handle this, easily. Take a look at the buttons we did 3-1/2 years ago. Zoom in. The resolution is fantastic and newer printers are even better.

 

 

But remember, you WANT the keycaps to be held in place by friction. Without enough friction (from cracked corners, for instance), keycaps just slide out very easily. But we DON’T want the plunger to bind on their outer walls or the plunger won’t, er … plunge. 😛 

[Beeblebrox]

3 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

But we DON’T want the plunger to bind on their outer walls or the plunger won’t, er … plunge. 😛 

yup, this is the part where the 3D printed plungers could potentially bind with the outer walls. The layered nature of the 3d printing process with filament printed plungers means they will have horizontal lined walls which unless perhaps sanded could bind with the stackpole and Hi-tek keyboard plunger carriage walls, causing the same issue with the keys locking as you get with the cracked corners of the original plungers. Whereas the actual keycaps themselves will benefit from being slighly rough as you say to stay fixed inside the plunger itself, where also the inside lined walls of the plunger being lined and unsanded is a bonus.

 

Man I've said plunger a lot in this reply.

 

All this talk reminds me of the Rick and Morty Plumbus How they do it vid heh heh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMJk4y9NGvE

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[-=Psycho=-]

I managed to repair several Hi-Tek and Stackpole keyboards recently using a set of thin 3D printed collars. The collar slides onto the plunger and is adhered flush at the top using a UV resin. This forces the plunger's cracked corners back together, restoring the plunger's original form and enabling it to once again mate snugly with a keycap. The collar measures just under 1mm thick, so you'll lose roughly that much travel in each key after applying the collar. Disadvantageous as that may sound, some may actually find this beneficial as it results in a sharper key response.

 

My sole source for the collars and how to apply them originated here:

Hi-Tek/Stackpole Switch Stem

 

I later found this info which should be helpful:

A reliable fix for cracked Hi-Tek High Profile vintage key switches
A solution for cracked Hi-Tek switches

 

Aside from the drawing, the attached photos are of my own work.

[Beeblebrox]

@-=Psycho=-  Great, thanks for all of this.

 

A quick question though - Hi-tek has the 1mm of plunger protruding when depressed, so I can understand the fix working there as the collar has the space. However stakpole plungers depress all the way down into the collar and don't have the 1mm protruding. So as long as the collar is glued in place for stakpole with strong glue so constant key presses don't dislodge it, I can see it working. 

 

Great solution though. I recall seeing the rubber washer fix, which only works with hi-tek. Pity the 3D printed collars are in the States. I guerss I could print my own.

 

However as per the topic my main need is to find keycap stl or cad files for the stakpole and hi-tek keycaps themselves, (mainly return, shifts, tab, ctrl, space).:)