The indescribably bad Atari VCS and stupid families

[Room 34]

Well since you can basically move anything on the 2600 each time the screen refreshes (lack of VRAM is both boon and bane), I'd assume that's the rate for sprite refreshes as well.

 

Let's put it this way... I don't think we'd ever see a good version of Kaboom! on the Intellivision...

[joeybastard]

Ahhh.... Got it, Thanks

[Room 34]

Well, just keep in mind that I am totally clueless about 2600 programming other than what details I have picked up from other people here in the forums.

 

But that won't stop me from speaking authoritatively like a total pompous ass though!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Where is the big problem with an update frequency of 20Hz? Except for extremly fast games (like Kaboom) 20Hz don't sound that bad. And all flickering Atari games run at 30Hz or even below (15Hz for Pac Man ghosts).

 

Or does 20Hz update frequency mean, that a sprite can only move 20 pixel/second? (yes, I never played INTV )

[kisrael]

Those are scanline refresh rates.  Is that the same as sprite update frequency?

Not scanline, whole screen refresh rates.

And yeah...the 2600 is likely to move sprites every screen refresh, just because of the way most games are put together.

 

Intellivision probably has the same screen refresh rates, (since all TVs are 50 or 60 frames per second), but it sounds as if a programmer is likely to use some easy-to-program thing in the CPU that only moves sprites every third frame. (assuming the 20 number is accurate)

 

Moving 1 pixel per frame isn't that much really...60 pixels a second, or like 1/3 of the screen (and a second is pretty long, after all)

 

If you're refreshing movement less often, you move slower, or you have to move in bigger jumps.

 

Re; Intellivision vs 2600 grudgematch...head to head comparisons of games are only one portion of it. What sells systems, then and now, are the console-exclusive titles...

[BassGuitari]

I've got three words as far as Intellivision is concerned: Don't be hatin'.

 

Now here's some more words...

 

Whether you like Intellivision or hate it, the fact remains that it was a supremely ballsy system for its time, especially compared to Atari or Odyssey. Technical rubbish aside, the majority of the games that were released for it are very good (granted, many are a bit slow at times, and some are tough/impossible to play without the overlays). In the absence of lightning speed, most players (myself included) will probably find that its more strategic, less action-based games are its greatest strengths. Games like Las Vegas Poker & Blackjack, Space Battle, Major League Baseball, Astrosmash (one of the few superb action games), and Dreadnaught Factor (another of the few superb action games) make Intellivision really shine.

 

In terms of full employment of a given system's power, how can you imply that the VCS was used any more resourcefully than Intellivision? The VCS wasn't pushed to its very limit until shortly before it was finally discontinued. In fact, our talented homebrewers here at AA may find ways to push it even further yet!

 

All in all, I am a die-hard fan of Atari and Intellivision both (among other things). If I had to choose one over the other, it would be impossible for me to choose.

 

 

 

BTW Yes, I fully acknowledge that Intellivision has the worst controllers in video game history:) It also has the worst Donkey Kong game I have ever seen.

[Csonicgo]

If he said it's so "stupid" then why did he program it? Oh, I love how he says parents are too stupid to buy an intellivision... actually they shoulda played it smart and not buy one damn thing from you, Mr. David. Frogs and Flies is now out the window because I don't want your evil messing up my VCS.

 

Oh, it's good for teaching oral sex, mr. David? Then, once again WHY did you program it? Sounds like Mr. David Rolfe is the ignorant one here. Man, If everyone was like this, We still wouldn't have invented the wheel.

[Csonicgo]

Update:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~davidrolfe/

 

this is the guys site. I'm gonna write him a really nice letter.

 

"Recipe for TEA

 

Tea (pronounced "tee") is a delicious and invigorating hot drink that is easy to prepare and always a pleasant surprise for those "special moments".

To prepare tea, two essential ingredients are required:

 

 

Tea bag

Water

The tea bag can be obtained from your local grocery or convenience store. Water can be had by going into your back yard and digging a very deep hole. Lower a bucket into the hole using a rope, and then draw it back out, and you will find it has been filled with water, as if by magic! In colder climates, you can also procure water by melting snow. (Snow with a yellowish tinge is best avoided.)

 

Place a cup of water into an iron vessel and heat it over a flame until it boils. (A flame is easily obtained by rubbing two sticks together.) Suspend the tea bag in the hot water for several minutes or until the tea bag bursts, whichever comes first. Then carefully remove the tea bag and dispose of it safely.

 

Your cup of tea is now ready to drink. The addition of honey or lemon may add to the culinary sensation. In addition to being a pleasing beverage, the tea can be used to discipline your husband when necessary by pouring it into his lap."

 

straight from his site. he's not dumb, as much as he is a smart aleck.

[ZylonBane]

Where is the big problem with an update frequency of 20Hz? Except for extremly fast games (like Kaboom) 20Hz don't sound that bad.

And yet, the Intellivision is infamous for slow sprite movement.

 

Misinformed people will argue that the human eye can't perceive the difference between 30Hz and 60Hz animation, but in fact they can. It's not that you can physically count the frames, but animation simply appears smoother at the higher frame rates.

 

On the Intellivision, sprite movement, sound, controller input, and other common functions are handled by the EXEC to free up cart ROM space. The EXEC routines only updated the sprite positions once every three video fields. Intellivision software was entirely capable of directly programming the sprite registers. It was even capable of sprite multiplexing, but marketing forbade its use due to the flicker.

 

I've created a little Flash movie that demonstrates the difference between the frame rates. It may or may not run at the full 60FPS unless you have a really fast system.

 

http://home.att.net/~clay.h/atari/632.swf

[kisrael]

http://home.earthlink.net/~davidrolfe/

SNIP

straight from his site.  he's not dumb, as much as he is a smart aleck.

Yeah, he's not as funny as he thinks he is.

 

But overall, let it rest. It was a bitter unfunny semijoke from a long while back. To write angry letters about it now puts you it the same territory as that guy at the SNL star trek convention who asks Shatner what the combination to his safe was in episode 103 or whatever it was...

[Bryan]

Ahhh.... Got it, Thanks

 

The main difference is that the 2600 has no BIOS. The only software running is whatever you wrote, so what you do with the hardware is up to you. Intellivision programmers were supposed to use the EXEC to handle hardware functions, so that would impose the "every third frame" limitation.

 

-Bry

[kisrael]

ZylonBane, that's pretty cool, really drives the point home

 

One thing though...maybe you should throw in smooth movement at 20hz and 30hz, to demonstrate how slow it is. I think that's the way many Intellivision games decided to deal with it.

[Bryan]

I've created a little Flash movie that demonstrates the difference between the frame rates. It may or may not run at the full 60FPS unless you have a really fast system.

http://home.att.net/~clay.h/atari/632.swf

 

Good job! That makes the point very well.

 

-Bry

[joeybastard]

Yes, thank you for clearing that up.

[bloodreptile]

I must say I thought that the game sucked but then I have only played it on the tv boy and when i frog tried to jump up both did.

[Godzilla]

I wonder if there were any inty games the broke the rules and went around the exec?

 

The Imagic games seem to do a damn good job of looking good and having challenging gameplay. Dracula, Swords & Serpents, Demon Attack, Beauty & The Beast, Ice Trek, Microsurgen, Safecracker, Nova Blast, etc are IMHO some of the best Inty games available.

[Room 34]

A lot of 3rd party games bypassed the EXEC because the EXEC source code was not released to 3rd party developers.

 

Some, like Activision, used the EXEC because they hired away people who had originally worked internally (with a pretense that they were NOT to use their knowledge of the EXEC... yeah, right), whereas most definitely Coleco (at least on Donkey Kong) and probably Imagic as well, among others, did not use the EXEC. There's no reason you CAN'T write your own kernel and put it on the cartridge, bypassing the BIOS entirely, and that was a way that 3rd parties that did not have access to knowledge of the EXEC's inner workings had to write their games.

[Godzilla]

I guess that explains why Imagic's games look better than pretty much anything Inty put out. Shame more Inty games didn't Ignore the exec. On a side note, isn't the Inty the first 16bit home console?

[Room 34]

I believe it has a 16-bit processor, but a 10-bit... something.

 

I don't know all of the details, just the numbers: Some element of it is 16-bit, and they made sure to tout that as much as possible, but due to other components, it was essentially a 10-bit system.

[Spector]

On the subject of Inty, what do people think of the 25-in-one portable Intellivision joypad that's just been released? It's similar to the Atari classics Joystick. Is the game selection good?

[Godzilla]

i bought the 10 and 25 in ones for my collection, but have no plans on opening them. the 25 has a good game selection including tower of doom and some of the later better games. I already have 100+ orig inty carts and an intellicart so I dont feel too inspired to bust open the allinones (oh and the inty dreamcast emu too :-) )