Star Raiders - Arcade?

[ddahlstrom]

I have an odd memory, from back-in-the-day, of seeing the 8-bit Atari computer version of Star Raiders running on an arcade machine. I'm quite sure it really was Star Raiders because I had Star Raiders on my home computer and was a bit of an arcade nerd at the time and pretty familiar with all the latest games.  I'm also pretty sure the marquee read "Star Raiders", though this memory is fuzzy.  The machine was not in an arcade, but in a department store lobby as I recall.  It was also a bit after the early arcade heyday, I'm thinking around 1985.  I never tried playing it though.  I was just surprised to see it.

 

Only much more recently did I discover that there actually was an arcade machine based on the Atari 600XL called the Max-a-Flex, but Star Raiders was not one of its official titles (which were Boulder Dash, Flip & Flop, Bristles, and Astro Chase).  According to the article at the link below it seems though that one could run other Atari computer cartridges on it.  So I'm pretty sure that what I saw back then must have been one of these machines, but it leaves me with two questions.  (1) Would Star Raiders, which used a lot of keyboard commands, even be playable on these machines; and (2) Does anyone recall seeing these machines in the wild...and, most especially, running either Star Raiders or some other unofficial game?

 

https://www.classicarcademuseum.org/exidy-max-a-flex-system

[ClausB]

In 1981 I wanted to play Star Raiders on my dorm's huge new rear projection TV but the grad ass wouldn't let me connect it.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Just out of curiosity, could you be thinking of Exidy's Star Fire?

 

 

Just making sure because there are some very similar gameplay mechanics and screen elements (and some very different ones) between it and Star Raiders.

 

Not saying it's not possible that someone installed an A8 into a disused arcade cabinet by any means, but there is a possibility of one being superficially mistaken for the other.

[Rybags]

It's not really a game that lends well to arcade conversion.

The typical 3-5 minutes you get in a game doesn't translate to much progress.  I suppose you could just base it all on time so e.g. need 6 coins for half an hour of play.

 

Then aside from that comes the problem of needing lots of buttons.   The game could be modified to just have velocity up/down/stop to save 7 buttons.

But that still leaves the need for about 11 buttons just for the gameplay.

[Flojomojo]

It wasn’t just a demo kiosk, right?

[ddahlstrom]

16 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Just out of curiosity, could you be thinking of Exidy's Star Fire?

 

 

Just making sure because there are some very similar gameplay mechanics and screen elements (and some very different ones) between it and Star Raiders.

 

Not saying it's not possible that someone installed an A8 into a disused arcade cabinet by any means, but there is a possibility of one being superficially mistaken for the other.

Very good supposition as they are, indeed, similar in many respects, but Star Fire had been an early arcade favorite of mine from years before I saw this machine and knew it very well.  So it is very unlikely that I would have mistaken the two.

Edited July 17, 2022 by ddahlstrom

[ddahlstrom]

14 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

It wasn’t just a demo kiosk, right?

No, it was definitely a conventional stand-up arcade machine in the lobby of a department (or possibly grocery) store.  I think there were actually two machines there, but can't at all remember what the other was.  I also have a vague recollection of not giving it a try because I didn't have any quarters on me.

Edited July 17, 2022 by ddahlstrom

[ddahlstrom]

15 hours ago, Rybags said:

It's not really a game that lends well to arcade conversion.

The typical 3-5 minutes you get in a game doesn't translate to much progress.  I suppose you could just base it all on time so e.g. need 6 coins for half an hour of play.

 

Then aside from that comes the problem of needing lots of buttons.   The game could be modified to just have velocity up/down/stop to save 7 buttons.

But that still leaves the need for about 11 buttons just for the gameplay.

Yeah, I totally agree and consider that to be the main problem with my recollection of this.  However, my working theory on this is that if it were possible to just slap any game into one of these Max-A-Flex systems it seems possible that this could have been done by someone purely as bait to attract quarters by putting something in the cabinet that looked new/different to the average passerby without regard for actual gameplay.

Edited July 17, 2022 by ddahlstrom

[+GoldLeader]

I never saw such a thing,...but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  It could have even been like you said,  someone puts money in,  then can't figure out how to play,  (and all with a custom marquee)...And maybe later the guy puts a different game in there...Or maybe the guy just thought it looked neat without realizing it was unplayable, etc...Any number of possibilities here.

 

It would be cool if someone else had ever seen one,  but it might have even been a rare-for-the-time one off...

[+LS650]

There was a Nintendo arcade game called Star Luster that was very much like Star Raiders.

https://youtu.be/kDK78pcuIuY

[+x=usr(1536)]

58 minutes ago, ddahlstrom said:

However, my working theory on this is that if it were possible to just slap any game into one of these Max-A-Flex systems it seems possible that this could have been done by someone purely as bait to attract quarters by putting something in the cabinet that looked new/different to the average passerby without regard for actual gameplay.

Entirely possible.  There was nothing stopping an operator from doing exactly this as the Max-A-Flex cartridges weren't locked to the system in any way, nor was the system able to reject 'unofficial' cartridges.

 

Obviously this wouldn't be the same as a full conversion kit with a new marquee, CPO, etc., but that never stopped someone from making a marquee by hand and not caring that Ms. Pac-Man was in a cabinet covered in Xevious artwork

[ddahlstrom]

2 hours ago, ls650 said:

There was a Nintendo arcade game called Star Luster that was very much like Star Raiders.

https://youtu.be/kDK78pcuIuY

The right time period, but the cockpit here is sharply different than Star Raiders, so I wouldn't have mistaken this one for SR.  With that said, since I never heard of this before, I just pulled this up in MAME and gave it a spin.  Definitely kind of a Star Raiders lite.

[Synthpopalooza]

It would have made a cool arcade game if not for the controls needed.  Imagine playing it on a vector monitor like Battlezone ...

[+x=usr(1536)]

34 minutes ago, Synthpopalooza said:

It would have made a cool arcade game if not for the controls needed.  Imagine playing it on a vector monitor like Battlezone ...

Or on I, Robot hardware.  Either one would've made for an interesting take on the original.

[Synthpopalooza]

How difficult would it be to port the game to that hardware?  Were these arcade units 6502 based?

[Keatah]

11 hours ago, ddahlstrom said:

Yeah, I totally agree and consider that to be the main problem with my recollection of this.  However, my working theory on this is that if it were possible to just slap any game into one of these Max-A-Flex systems it seems possible that this could have been done by someone purely as bait to attract quarters by putting something in the cabinet that looked new/different to the average passerby without regard for actual gameplay.

Yes either a Max-Flex system or a custom one-off. For sure nothing official/commercial was made.

 

From watching interviews and news commentary, people that operated arcade cabs in locations would not really care about the game or its gameplay. Not many of them were hobbyists. And even fewer were gamers. All they were interested were in planning their route to collect quarters. And handling the dreaded out-of-order service calls. They likely didn't read Electronic Games, but, rather, local publications like newsletters from speculative investors talking about the next hot thing.

 

Games and gameplaying were just vehicles and methods to get at your hard-earned quarter. Operators both big and small didn't care about the storyline of the games themselves. They didn't care about how patrons would miss a game if removed from a location or just taken off the floor. And as a kid I hated that!

[Keatah]

16 minutes ago, Synthpopalooza said:

How difficult would it be to port the game to that hardware?  Were these arcade units 6502 based?

Probably not worth the effort. Besides, the 6809 and the BitSlice Polygon Processor in I'Robot are more capable than just a 6502 on an Atari 400/800. Much of that power would go un-used.

[+x=usr(1536)]

13 hours ago, Keatah said:

Probably not worth the effort.

Possibly, maybe even probably.  But given Atari's foolings-around with 3D hardware in that general timeframe (I, Robot, Last Starfighter), it seems to my eye that the potential was at least there.  More:

Quote

Besides, the 6809 and the BitSlice Polygon Processor in I'Robot are more capable than just a 6502 on an Atari 400/800. Much of that power would go un-used.

Agreed.  However, I, Robot didn't make full use of them, either.  A shame, really, because it was really excellent hardware for its intended application.  More on that a bit further down.

 

An arcade version of Star Raiders would have to be an adaptation of the original: there are just too many elements that wouldn't work in a setting designed to keep playtimes short.  Part of this would be making it more reliant on graphics, which would be an opportunity to showcase the bitslicer's capabilities.

 

The downside to this: it's likely that it would end up being too close to Star Wars in terms of gameplay by the time that it was finished.  Star Luster gives a glimpse of how fine the line is between how much strategy and how much action can be put into (specifically) an arcade game and still have it be a success, and it leans just a touch too heavily on the strategy side.  Star Wars is an excellent action game with massive replay appeal - but it's not really a strategy game, which was a big component of Star Raiders.

 

Coming back to I, Robot for a moment: this is one of my favourite arcade games, but I'll be the first to acknowledge that it was a total flop.  The first time I played it, I inadvertently selected Doodle City instead of the game and couldn't understand why I'd just wasted 50¢ on a chunkier version of LOGO.  The gameplay of the actual game was essentially a platform puzzler, a genre that wasn't particularly common in arcades.  All of this was going on just before laserdisc games ceased being The Next Big Thing™ as well, so I can see how the combination of all of these factors led to its failure in the marketplace.

 

Unfortunate, because the opportunity to push certain aspects of arcade gaming forward by almost a decade was certainly there.  Atari having chosen to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it ended production killed that potential in its hardware by not releasing another game on the platform, or a variant thereof.  Unfortunate.

[Hawkeye68]

Interesting post as I didn't know about Max-a-Flex.

 

Unrelated, but along the same lines, I remember our local Showbiz Pizza (later became Chuck-E-Cheese) had Apple II computers in kiosks with coin-slots in 1983.  It must have been timed as the Max-a-Flex was, but I only tried it once and can't remember the details.

[Keatah]

5 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Agreed.  However, I, Robot didn't make full use of them, either.  A shame, really, because it was really excellent hardware for its intended application.  More on that a bit further down.

I' Robot is a very abstract game. Along the likes of Tempest more or less. But also more complex. Another example of a technically good game with sophisticated hardware being displaced by lesser material that's easier to understand.

 

Passionate gamers with better-than-average awareness sucked these things up a-left anda-right. At the same time that meant a smaller audience since the masses were getting interested in cutesy games and the soon-to-arrive fighting games.

 

I do like the atmosphere of the game. But even me (of superior intelligence and intellect) didn't quite grasp the story. I had to go looking for it in a review or interview. Arcade games following the 5-minute 3-lives model with a complex story line rarely do well since the player is adrift from the moment the quarter drops. No time to build the boat. No time to plot a course. Akka Arrh is deeper down that rabbit hole.

 

Now consider stuff like Sonic or Doom. You instantly grab the storylines, you know what to do, you can build your own universe in your head. Those games allow for all that while enforcing the theme from start to finish. Everybody knows what Pac-Man does, what Sonic does, and what the SpaceMarine in Doom does. And none of them needed explanations.

 

You could play the games and have instant fun. Catch up and investigate the world later if desired.

[+pboland]

Interesting topic. It doesn't seem that far fetched that an Atari computer based arcade would have existed. Heck, I was thinking just the other day that an Atari computer based arcade would have been pretty simple to implement back in the day. Some of those game carts needed the "start" button to be pressed to start the game anyway. I always thought why not just wire the "coin up" to the start button of an Atari computer?. Yes I know not all games required the start button to be pressed to play (sometime just the fire button would work), but if you were a company with any kind of money (like Exidy or such)  it wouldn't have been that difficult to program (or modify) games to work with only the "Start" button to start a game. I'm actually quite shocked it didn't happen in mass back then.

[Keatah]

29 minutes ago, pboland said:

I'm actually quite shocked it didn't happen in mass back then.

I'm glad it didn't. The idea of modding home computer software and hardware (for arcade use) came rather late in the game. Arcades had reached a saturation point and the industry was rebooting itself. These conversions were just schisms and vibrations in a market trying to figure itself out. Throw shit at the wall and see what dribbles into the sewer.

 

Had I seen a MaxerFlexer kiosk or Apple II held captive at CEC, I'd immediately have labeled it as cheapo 3rd-world stuff.

 

Part of the arcade experience was paying for and enjoying better (read as dedicated) graphics hardware. Stuff not available at home. The 3/5 model sucked even more when it was translated to home, and then back via MaxiFlex.

 

Besides all that, I'd be pissed to see Star Raiders abused like that. Degraded and pushed around like that.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Keatah

[Keatah]

 

[+MrFish]

12 hours ago, Keatah said:

Part of the arcade experience was paying for and enjoying better (read as dedicated) graphics hardware.

Part of the arcade experience was never going there again, after getting a home computer. 

 

Having said that, it might be an interesting/worthy experience to own a Max-A-Flex in the home (aside from the fact that they're nearly impossible to obtain). It would give the 8-bit computer games more of an arcade feel, playing in a cab, with arcade controls and a cab-mounted monitor.

 

[Keatah]

15 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Part of the arcade experience was never going there again, after getting a home computer. 

Well yes of course.

 

At first I grew into the Apple II alongside the arcades. Tapered off somewhat when I got the Amiga. And almost totally stopped not long after getting a PC, maybe go a few times a year to check the scene. But not to play much. And certainly not to compete against hi-scores or anything.

 

Reasoning was simple - the money saved would easily buy a contemporary computer game. Or several trips would equal some sort of upgrade.

 

Toward the end it began feeling like a chore. And the cozy winter nights weren't worth interrupting for a trek through a snowstorm and bad roads. Yes. It was a relief not having to go there.

 

23 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Having said that, it might be an interesting/worthy experience to own a Max-A-Flex in the home (aside from the fact that they're nearly impossible to obtain). It would give the 8-bit computer games more of an arcade feel, playing in a cab, with arcade controls and monitor.

It would. And it would be a novelty to those who grew up on Atari 8-bit gaming. Though today I wouldn't want to go through the trouble. Oh maybe a few games or rounds could be whimsical, but I wouldn't ever want one taking up space in my alcove. And I'm sure I'd tire of the format quite quickly.

 

The next best thing (4me) would simply be an X-Arcade stick set up on a table in front of a modern screen. Running MAME or another Atari 8-bit emulator.

 

There's so many ways to play the vintage games today that any one formfactor & layout & configuration is just as good or bad as the next. And it all comes down to personal preference here. Emulators and FPGA have stopped time and bring the games pretty much exactly how we knew them in the past - to today.. Cabs, monitors, consoles, and portables, and whatever setup you have is just the physical interface. And physical interfaces don't hold much nostalgia with me.