Star Raiders - Arcade?

[ddahlstrom]

7 hours ago, MrFish said:

Part of the arcade experience was never going there again, after getting a home computer. 

 

Well, I wouldn't quite say that--though it kind of depends on which computer you mean and what time period.  I still went to the arcade after getting my VIC-20, my Coleco Adam, and my Atari 800XL; and so did my friends.  At those times, contemporaneous games at arcades still offered technology that home consoles and computers just couldn't match--so you were still getting a novel experience for your quarter, from higher res graphics, to color vector graphics, laser disc games, optimized controllers, etc.  Basically, arcades still offered many of the the "gold standard" games, and like movie theaters were the place where you would experience great games first and at their best.  The thing that stopped me from going to arcades was when that generally stopped being true.  The two home systems that did that were the Nintendo NES in the console world and PC in the computer world (especially after EGA/VGA graphics and soundcard-based sound went mainstream).  By this time, the typical arcade game was no longer even trying to be generationally ahead of their home counterparts (and getting increasingly behind); and conversion kits in battered cabinets, continue-play, and arcade machines that thought "bringing the home experience to the arcade" was a good thing, were fast replacing cool tech as the bait for your quarter.  Arcades hung on for a while, but were no longer populated by tech nerds who were there to get their geek fix and career inspirations, but by those who just liked midway experiences--which wasn't enough of a draw to sustain them at the local mall.

[+MrFish]

5 minutes ago, ddahlstrom said:

Well, I wouldn't quite say that--though it kind of depends on which computer you mean and what time period.  I still went to the arcade after getting my VIC-20, my Coleco Adam, and my Atari 800XL; and so did my friends.  At those times, contemporaneous games at arcades still offered technology that home consoles and computers just couldn't match--so you were still getting a novel experience for your quarter, from higher res graphics, to color vector graphics, laser disc games, optimized controllers, etc.  Basically, arcades still offered many of the the "gold standard" games, and like movie theaters were the place where you would experience great games first and at their best.  The thing that stopped me from going to arcades was when that generally stopped being true.  The two home systems that did that were the Nintendo NES in the console world and PC in the computer world (especially after EGA/VGA graphics and soundcard-based sound went mainstream).  By this time, the typical arcade game was no longer even trying to be generationally ahead of their home counterparts (and getting increasingly behind); and conversion kits in battered cabinets, continue-play, and arcade machines that thought "bringing the home experience to the arcade" was a good thing, were fast replacing cool tech as the bait for your quarter.  Arcades hung on for a while, but were no longer populated by tech nerds who were there to get their geek fix and career inspirations, but by those who just liked midway experiences--which wasn't enough of a draw to sustain them at the local mall.

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit. I still went to the arcades too; but it was more the overall experience than just the video games themselves. Playing pool, air hockey, foosball, and videos games at an arcade with your friends was a way to have fun outside the home; and these games (particularly the non-video ones) were definitely something I didn't have in my home. But any friend who had one of these in their home was typically a permanent hangout -- their parents in support. The arcade was always an experience unto itself, in part because it was a social environment -- somewhat like a non-alcohol bar for young people. So, yeah, they weren't more fully replaced until things started to reach a higher level than the Atari 8-bits; but my Atari certainly kept me from needing to venture to arcades just to have video-game fun.

 

[+MrFish]

8 hours ago, Keatah said:

There's so many ways to play the vintage games today that any one formfactor & layout & configuration is just as good or bad as the next. And it all comes down to personal preference here. Emulators and FPGA have stopped time and bring the games pretty much exactly how we knew them in the past - to today.. Cabs, monitors, consoles, and portables, and whatever setup you have is just the physical interface. And physical interfaces don't hold much nostalgia with me.

Nostalgia is really just a small part of any retro-computing for me. It would mainly be about the higher-quality controls (even though you can get those for use with any system, as you say) and attention focus when using a stand-up cab. I think it'd be pretty cool to have a setup devoted to home-computers -- using emulation or FPGA -- in a stand-up cab.

 

[Keatah]

29 minutes ago, ddahlstrom said:

At those times, contemporaneous games at arcades still offered technology that home consoles and computers just couldn't match--so you were still getting a novel experience for your quarter, from higher res graphics, to color vector graphics, laser disc games, optimized controllers, etc.

It's not so much newer more advanced technology. But instead a totally different style of design. Most of the parts in an arcade cab are standard electronics, they didn't have super processors or mega-custom-chips. Cabs had real 6502 and Z-80 parts. Regular ROM & RAM chips, buffers, standard TTL gates.

 

It's that the boards in a cab are dedicated to one task. The circuitry built around the program, the program built around the circuitry, as opposed to a general function home computer. Could say an arcade game makes the most of the parts.

 

11 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Nostalgia is really just a small part of any retro-computing for me.

Nostalgia is huge for me. Not just the videogames, but the other activities of the time too. Like listed here, along with Model Rockets, Slotcars, RC stuff..

 

[+MrFish]

14 minutes ago, Keatah said:

...Slotcars...

Man, I loved slot cars. My dad got us into those from an early age. There was a kick-ass slot-car racing shop right down the street from where we lived (used to go there before we lived in the area too). They had one smaller track for the HO scale stuff, and two large tracks -- for the big boys. The track in the basement was huge, and required a minimum of "group 18" cars to use (I believe -- or it could have been group 20); that track had some amazing (nearly vertical) banks on it, and was a huge blast to race on. They had regular, formal competitions there all the time too (every weekend).

 

[+MrFish]

16 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Nostalgia is huge for me. Not just the videogames, but the other activities of the time too. Like listed here, along with Model Rockets, Slotcars, RC stuff..

Yeah, I get the whole nostalgia vibe; but I'm just more into intrinsic/unique value.

 

[youxia]

1 hour ago, ddahlstrom said:

The two home systems that did that were the Nintendo NES in the console world and PC in the computer world (especially after EGA/VGA graphics and soundcard-based sound went mainstream).  By this time, the typical arcade game was no longer even trying to be generationally ahead of their home counterparts (and getting increasingly behind)

Sorry, but you're off by at least a decade, probably more. I was still going to arcades in the late Nineties to see the likes of Virtua Fighter 3. Games like these were still technically the best, even if consoles & PC were catching up quickly. And NES/VGA weren't even at the races when it comes to advanced 2D gfx compared to arcades at the time, this has only changed with the arrival of NeoGeo (obviously) and Saturn/PSX.

[ddahlstrom]

20 minutes ago, youxia said:

Sorry, but you're off by at least a decade, probably more. I was still going to arcades in the late Nineties to see the likes of Virtua Fighter 3. Games like these were still technically the best, even if consoles & PC were catching up quickly. And NES/VGA weren't even at the races when it comes to advanced 2D gfx compared to arcades at the time, this has only changed with the arrival of NeoGeo (obviously) and Saturn/PSX.

 

I was very careful to use the phrase "typical arcade game" here, because there were, of course exceptions (and still are even to this day...think of VR/Simulator type experiences, or holographic games).  Its just that these were the occasional exception, and not in sufficient quantity to reboot arcades back to their former glory.  

Edited July 19, 2022 by ddahlstrom

[youxia]

Well, that's just not true, because a typical contemporary arcade game would still blow NES out of the water. These weren't exceptions but regularities. And VGA didn't even get a proper horizontal scrolling game till Commander Keen in 1990, and with a few exceptions later on never really mattered in the 2D space.

 

It'd be more realistic to say that with the arrival of PC Engine and Megadrive home market could get really close, but even so the arcades were still the technical top dog for years to come. Also, the fact that they weren't as popular as before the crash and home console spread, doesn't meant they weren't popular at all.

[ddahlstrom]

12 minutes ago, youxia said:

Well, that's just not true, because a typical contemporary arcade game would still blow NES out of the water. These weren't exceptions but regularities. And VGA didn't even get a proper horizontal scrolling game till Commander Keen in 1990, and with a few exceptions later on never really mattered in the 2D space.

 

It'd be more realistic to say that with the arrival of PC Engine and Megadrive home market could get really close, but even so the arcades were still the technical top dog for years to come. Also, the fact that they weren't as popular as before the crash and home console spread, doesn't meant they weren't popular at all.

 

I guess I can't disagree with you in terms of new games that were released in that period.  I just took a little time to look and remind myself that many of the titles I enjoy today and play somewhat regularly on my home arcade machine were actually released in the late 80s and early 90s, and you are genuinely correct that many of these are certainly more advanced than home consoles of the time could have achieved, and that PCs were still catching up and could not have replicated them at the time either.  I think the differing perspective comes from what I actually encountered in the local arcades.  Had I actually found many of these games at my local arcade, I think I almost surely would have played them and come back for more; but I just don't remember even seeing the vast majority in the wild, especially when they were first released.  So perhaps some of this perspective comes from what one actually encountered at their local arcade, many of which were probably too strapped to afford the latest.

[sargie]

I used to own an I, Robot machine, #49. Before the days of MAME it was the only way to play it.

 

 

Great game, ahead of its time but too complex to be a successful arcade game of the time IMO.

[+Stephen]

5 hours ago, ddahlstrom said:

The two home systems that did that were the Nintendo NES in the console world and PC in the computer world (especially after EGA/VGA graphics and soundcard-based sound went mainstream). 

That's not how it was in my area.  Not until the PSX came out and I was playing Tekken2 at home, did a console even come close to offering what we had at the arcades.  I'd say 95, maybe early 96.  But the arcades still had amazing racing games.  By the time the Dreamcast was out, all the arcades by me were closed.