ColecoVision adapter for the Master System - available now!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

3 hours ago, Apocalypse said:

The PAUSE mod is just conflicting with the scheme I'm using to simulate the keypad: PAUSE will be detected so as both directions being pressed.

e.g. if you press PAUSE on the controller and try to simulate key 1 by pressing the left/up diagonal, what will be seen is either UP + DOWN + LEFT (UP + DOWN = PAUSE) or LEFT + RIGHT + UP (LEFT + RIGHT = PAUSE).

And it is only an issue when trying to use the PAUSE on your controller. The actual Pause on the console is fine in this case. I'm sure that was already understood but just wanted to clarify.

 

[RockLobster]

@Apocalypse and @mitsurugi-w, during the initial feedback you had asked us to supply serial numbers to correlate diff parts from diff vendors.   

 

Can you share what the release differences are?

[+Gemintronic]

4 hours ago, Apocalypse said:

@Gemintronic don't worry, @mitsurugi-w has an adapter ready to be sent to you. Just get in touch guys to arrange payment and shipping.

 

 

mitsurugi-w messaged me super fast.  Sent payment and gave him my mailing address.

 

I've self published games before so I know the ordering process can be, er, a process.   Thank you, guys!

[+swlovinist]

Here is my overview of this product.   The colors being off from what is offered on original hardware and emulation are going to be an issue for some.   Not compatible with many homebrews and aftermarket games as well.    Still cool that it works with many of the official releases.   I also tested this on a Master System II using RF and a CRT television and got the same results.  

 

 

[dipdoodle]

3 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Possibly off topic for this thread but in terms of any kinda of impact as the result of model variants...

 

While AtariAge buyers are skewed from the general population, aren't the vast majority of sales the SMS Model 1 especially in N.America?

In the US model 1 is most common. But sms was.more popular in Europe and Brazil than in USA or Japan. And in Europe the console laster much longer and I would say model 2 are about 5-10x more common. At least far more common for sale. And model 1 sell for about 3x as much as model 2.

[mitsurugi-w]

3 hours ago, RockLobster said:

@Apocalypse and @mitsurugi-w, during the initial feedback you had asked us to supply serial numbers to correlate diff parts from diff vendors.   

 

Can you share what the release differences are?

The only difference is that the first 9 units were manufactured about two months ago with the supplier of all three chips used in the adapter being from different vendors than the second batch of 21 units.  The z80s are different part numbers but functionally the same and the eproms are different brands but the same type.

 

I just wanted to know in case we started seeing issues with the adapters themselves but so far no unit has been defective.  One we suspected might be bad we sent a replacement but it turned out to be the user's setup causing the issue.

[phoenixdownita]

2 hours ago, swlovinist said:

Here is my overview of this product.   The colors being off from what is offered on original hardware and emulation are going to be an issue for some.   Not compatible with many homebrews and aftermarket games as well.    Still cool that it works with many of the official releases.   I also tested this on a Master System II using RF and a CRT television and got the same results.  

 

 

It works as expected, the sms vdp maps the 9918 colors that way (ask Sega why).

I am surprised people are unaware of that, there’s no palette-gate.

 

https://www.smspower.org/Development/Palette

 

try playing sg1000 games on SMS via master everdrive, or even the msx2sms ports and you’ll get the same “color issue” … nothing new there.

Edited 11 hours ago by phoenixdownita

[mitsurugi-w]

2 hours ago, swlovinist said:

Here is my overview of this product.   The colors being off from what is offered on original hardware and emulation are going to be an issue for some.   Not compatible with many homebrews and aftermarket games as well.    Still cool that it works with many of the official releases.   I also tested this on a Master System II using RF and a CRT television and got the same results.  

 

 

As has been stated there is nothing that can be done about the palette.  Its hard coded to the console and can't be changed.

 

The adapter was designed for use with original carts.  And we think it does what it intended to do very well.  However, those who know us from our arcade multis know that we like to try to improve things whenever possible, sometimes even years after release.  So rest assured we will try to add more functionality and compatibility.

 

Don't expect an on-screen keypad though. 

 

I'm proud of what we have accomplished so far.  

[TPR]

29 minutes ago, mitsurugi-w said:

I'm proud of what we have accomplished so far.  

100% agreed with that statement right there.

[RockLobster]

33 minutes ago, mitsurugi-w said:

I'm proud of what we have accomplished so far.  

As a fan of your Colecoco cart, I would say that @swlovinist video was fine and fair.

 

I don't get the impression from his words/tone that he implied the cartridge is broken in anyway nor that it didn't deliver per the original promise of playing ColecoVision cartridges but with a diff palette and keypad input method.  My only small gripe is that he repeated the palette differences as "an issue" for each tested game for nearly an immortal 10 minutes straight of the video.  

 

OTOH, I think it's totally reasonable to emphasize the color palette differences to a great deal of the (N.American) retro audience who are not only unaware of the SG-1000 compatibility in the SMS but also don't know about color palettes.  Probably a little better for potential customers to be put on alert rather than plenty more buying, being unhappy and then parading the "defective" Colecoco product and the "scammers" who can't make it right.

 

Still a big fan!

 

[+Apocalypse]

@swlovinist thanks for your video.

 

Here are a few things I'd like to point out (of course I'm going to defend my product  ):

- colours in legacy mode (SG-1000) are hardcoded in the Master System's VDP (whatever the model, same applies on the Mark III), there's no way to rearrange them, it's a "mistake" made by Sega when designing the chip. It was never hidden, I mention it in my very first post. Mouse Trap doesn't have any issue (it was used as an example to demonstrate the difference in the colours).

 

 

 

- When you say "most" OG cartridges work, actually I have tested over 120 games and only 2 really had issues (Dragon Fire and Rock 'N' Bolt). That's a pretty good compatibility rate, and again was never hidden. I'm also mentioning the difficulty to play some games because of how the keypad is accessed on the adapter.

- as for the multi carts, we are investigating it, we have so far identified two possible causes: 3V signals sent on the data bus (fine on a real Colecovision using TTL parts, not with the adapter using CMOS parts) and video timings (writes to the VDP without enough CPU cycles in between)

[phoenixdownita]

3 hours ago, RockLobster said:

…
My only small gripe is that he repeated the palette differences as "an issue" for each tested game for nearly an immortal 10 minutes straight of the video.

… 

My main gripe: he repeats “I don’t know what’s going on” … I like him in general but for a retro expert “I don’t know” is surprising … literally if you have a Sega mark III or a JP SMS and try to play sg1000 games (which is fully supported, no need for flash carts) you would see the palette diff immediately.

That page on smspower has been up at least a decade if not more … I am sure I am more of a retro nut than he is at this point, but a bit more research would go a long way imho … so told I like his bright smile 😃 

Edited 7 hours ago by phoenixdownita

[mitsurugi-w]

His name is pretty cool too.

[phoenixdownita]

24 minutes ago, mitsurugi-w said:

His name is pretty cool too.

It ends with cock 😁(yeah I am a manchild, sorry about that)… not sure I agree on the coolness and afaik it’s a stage name but I really don’t know or care either way, if you are a self proclaimed expert I kind of expect you would know these things … shame on me really.

 

Then again opening post:

”Hello.

 

I have designed an adapter to play ColecoVision games on the Master System (through the SG-1000 compatibility mode, hence slightly off colours)”

 

I guess we could opine on the choice word “slightly” … or not. In the comments people are shocked it does not work on the power base converter on a genesis, ignoring the genesis/Megadrive dropped all 9918 back compat modes … and in doing so impacting only 1 SMS proper game(F16) as the genesis/Megadrive never claimed sg1000 back compat.

Edited 6 hours ago by phoenixdownita

[+swlovinist]

People need to remember that I cover a wide variety of content on many(well over 50) different platforms.   I am not going to get all the info correct and do Youtube around a full time job as a creative outlet.    I will be the first to admit that I am not a real technical person.   The Master System is the least of my expertise when it comes to Sega consoles, let alone import and color palette issues.   The good news is that the video was well received and thank you to everyone for your input.  I am sure it will also bring in some sales.  Also, @phoenixdownita, yes that is my name :).  

[phoenixdownita]

4 minutes ago, swlovinist said:

People need to remember that I cover a wide variety of content on many(well over 50) different platforms.   I am not going to get all the info correct and do Youtube around a full time job as a creative outlet.    I will be the first to admit that I am not a real technical person.   The Master System is the least of my expertise when it comes to Sega consoles, let alone import and color palette issues.   The good news is that the video was well received and thank you to everyone for your input.   

Ok, would you mind amending the description to add such details and maybe link to the smspower page?

[+swlovinist]

5 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

Ok, would you mind amending the description to add such details and maybe link to the smspower page?

Done, and pinned a post about it as well.  

[phoenixdownita]

1 minute ago, swlovinist said:

Done, and pinned a post about it as well.  

Nice, thank you very much!

I take back some bad thoughts I had … kidding here … I‘ll keep’em, block’em and sock’em 😜

[mitsurugi-w]

Yeah the adapter doesnt work with the power base converter for the same reason a version of this adapter can't be made for Japanese consoles.  Cost-cutting measures by sega.

 

Again it's not a flaw in the product.  It's just impossible because the Genesis doesn't support all necessary signals.

Edited 6 hours ago by mitsurugi-w

[+Apocalypse]

48 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

I guess we could opine on the choice word “slightly” … or not.

That's a fair comment. I've never owned a Colecovision and don't have any memories as a reference. That said I did really enjoy playing the games on the adapter without thinking much about the colours.

 

As you said, the same issue is present when playing SG-1000 games on the Mark III (or SMS with an adapter or flash cart), yet it's an official product from a renowed manufacturer. I don't remember people complaining much about it.

 

On a side note, if people want the adapter to be compatible with FPGA solutions, they need to ask the manufacturers to implement/support a full SMS cart port (not only addresses and data lines plus a few control signals):

[phoenixdownita]

2 minutes ago, Apocalypse said:

...

On a side note, if people want the adapter to be compatible with FPGA solutions, they need to ask the manufacturers to implement/support a full SMS cart port (not only addresses and data lines plus a few control signals):

Wrt MegaSg the jailbreak fw has full colecovision + sgm support and right colors too (for sg1000 as well) making this adapter targeted only to people that would like to use real carts.

 

Page 12 https://github.com/SmokeMonsterPacks/Mega-Sg-Jailbreak/blob/master/documentation/Mega_Sg_Unofficial_Jailbreak_Supplement_JBv7.3.pdf

[mitsurugi-w]

I thought fpga was meant to 100% emulate the original.  What a scandal.  😆 

[+Apocalypse]

That's what they say... If we can find some obvious gaps like this, what else could be wrong in the background? 😈

[Tengugurl]

Hello, very interested in buying on DM sent @Apocalypse

[+Gemintronic]

12 minutes ago, Tengugurl said:

Hello, very interested in buying on DM sent @Apocalypse

 

I was confused about this too.  While I wasn't looking over the months the first post was updated with ordering instructions:
 

Quote

 

You can order them from Mitsurugi-w from Arcade Projects, no need to register, you can order by sending an e-mail to 'his username with _ instead of -' at hotmail dot com, , with COLECOCO MASTER (in capital letters) as the subject.

APOCALYPSE - Coming Soon: ColeCoco Master Adapter!! | Arcade-Projects Forums

 

Price is $69 + shipping and for now they're sent from the US, people outside of America may want to do a group buy to save on shipping and tax.