SIDE2 documentation / manual beyond the setup guides?

[RockLobster]

or maybe a discord channel?   I've just bought a second hand SIDE2 from someone who upgraded to the SIDE3.   A primary motivation was that it's been around for so many years that I assumed there'd be plenty of formal documentation to augment various chatter about issues.   However, I've not been able to read anything deeper than setup guides or firmware upgrade steps.

 

I have a lot of questions and don't want to pepper forums with things that long time users have known for years.  

 

For example, it's been just a day but I'm not able to find any documentation on why SIDE2 is ok with some rom/cart types but not others.   I only caught a passing comment from FlashJazzCat that SIDE2 won't display every file in the launcher; just the ones it can load.    As a new user, I had assumed it would only have issues with disk images (w/o u1mb) and roms over 1mb?

 

Anyway, I'm happy to ask questions but want to reach some minimal baseline through reading first.  

 

Thanks!

[Beeblebrox]

@RockLobster Does your Side2 have the latest FJC firmware flashed?

 

Also SIDE2 doesn't support CAR files at all AFAIK. It was SIDE3 that supports them. See the table below. SIDE2 can load XEXs, (and has full ATR support when used with U1MB).

 

Have you been to FJC's website and read the documentation? 

 

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side/

 

 

EDIT:  I took this from the documentation:

 

See page 48 of the documentation onwards:

Ultimate 1MB, Incognito, 1088XEL|U1MB, SIDE, SIDE2 and SIDE3 Firmware User manual:

https://atari8.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Ultimate-1MB-Incognito-and-1088XEL-U1MB-Firmware-Manual.pdf

Edited January 3, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[RockLobster]

9 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

@RockLobster Does your Side2 have the latest FJC firmware flashed?

 

Also SIDE2 doesn't support CAR or ROM files at all. It was SIDE3 that supports them. See the table below. SIDE2 can load XEXs, (and has full ATR support when used with U1MB). 

 

Have you been to FJC's website and read the documentation? 

 

https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side/

 

 

FW:   Not yet since I only have a stock 64kb XEGS.  I'll do so once my fujinet comes in and can load the ATR version of the firmware update.  For now I'm on a 2019 fw.  I think 3.x.

 

CAR/ROM:  Ok, thank you.   Is there CAR/ROM support when the SIDE2 is paired with the U1MB?

 

FJC doc link:   Thank you!  Somehow my brain skipped over it when it mentioned the U1MB.   Now rereading, it seem the SIDE2 info is within the U1MB manual. 

 

[Beeblebrox]

4 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

 

FW:   Not yet since I only have a stock 64kb XEGS.  I'll do so once my fujinet comes in and can load the ATR version of the firmware update.  For now I'm on a 2019 fw.  I think 3.x.

 

CAR/ROM:  Ok, thank you.   Is there CAR/ROM support when the SIDE2 is paired with the U1MB?

 

FJC doc link:   Thank you!  Somehow my brain skipped over it when it mentioned the U1MB.   Now rereading, it seem the SIDE2 info is within the U1MB manual. 

 

No worries. Read my updated post.

[RockLobster]

This is perfect, thank you.  I've a lot more to read than prior to your helpful response.

[Beeblebrox]

7 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

This is perfect, thank you.  I've a lot more to read than prior to your helpful response.

Happy to help. Essentially if you want to mount CARs you'll need a SIDE3 or AVG cart for example.

 

See here as well re SIDE3 just in case you are interested (it talks of the latest SIDE3 incarnation - SIDE3.1): 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[RockLobster]

55 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Happy to help. Essentially if you want to mount CARs you'll need a SIDE3 or AVG cart for example.

So originally the AVG cart seemed appealing bc it cover so many features.   However, I was enamored with the Fujinet and would rather augment missing features around it with little overlap/cost.   I absolutely get people liking the U1MB + SIDE3 pairing but I'd rather have a Fujinet + ___ combo instead.   

However, I know realize I'm now missing cartridge support on native atari8bit hardware.

[Beeblebrox]

13 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

So originally the AVG cart seemed appealing bc it cover so many features.   However, I was enamored with the Fujinet and would rather augment missing features around it with little overlap/cost.   I absolutely get people liking the U1MB + SIDE3 pairing but I'd rather have a Fujinet + ___ combo instead.   

However, I know realize I'm now missing cartridge support on native atari8bit hardware.

Sure. Fujinet (ver 1.6) is supposed to be pretty cool. I've never really looked into it as I am covered with what I need.

 

FYI SIDE2 came out around 6ish years ago afaik, possibily longer. The SIDE2 loader was also incorporated into the excellent Incognito upgrade for Atari 800 machines, along with the U1MB. (I have an 800 with the latter).

 

SIDE3 has been around a couple of years and recently SIDE3.1 (with it's extra hardware features as per the video I linked to earlier), has been released.

 

I have a SIDE3.1 which I use standalone on my stock Atari's as well as my U1MB'd A8's. FJC has been working on a new firmware beta for it (WIP): https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3-beta-loader/ 

 

Just a suggestion but if you got your SIDE2 for a good price you could always sell it on and get a SIDE3.1 or AVG cart for the CAR support. Depends how important CAR support is to you. AVG is a very popular cart.

 

If you watch the video i linked to earlier you'll see mention of the external plug and play U1MB for XE machines which will incorporate the SIDE3 loader and other features. Very interesting. 

 

What is your main Atari 8-bit BTW?

 

 

 

 

[RockLobster]

34 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Just a suggestion but if you got your SIDE2 for a good price you could always sell it on and get a SIDE3.1 or AVG cart for the CAR support. Depends how important CAR support is to you. AVG is a very popular cart.

 

 

What is your main Atari 8-bit BTW?

Heh, that's actually how I ended up with the SIDE2!   A local hobby friend sold his to me for $50 after he got his SIDE3.   He's very happy with he U1MB+SIDE3 combo.  $50 is a good price for me to keep as a good backup/tester/spartadox tool.

 

As for missing cartridge rom support, I'm fine continuing to use my MiSTer for this relatively minor absent capability.   I've yet to find a game cartridge I'm interested in that hasn't been converted to XEX so far.

 

My atari8bit is an XEGS complete with two shitty (accuracy-wise) yet rare/coveted/pricey XE light guns.   Got this for xmas and it's my first atari computer.   The C64 was my childhood 1st computer as for most of my childhood gaming/computer friends so I've never had much IRL exposure to this platform outside of magazines of the era.

 

Similar interest was brewing for the 16/32 bit ST platform since I had the Amiga during that time but realized (not hate pls lol) that the Atari TOS and GEM environment were fairly limited from a hobbyist's perspective.   There appears to be little to tinker with beyond treating the environment as just a launcher.   I'd love to be proven wrong and get into it with real hardware one day.

 

Anyhoo, this is where I'm at with atari8bit.

 

[_The Doctor__]

$50.00 seems about right so you did just fine. the light guns can be slightly tweaked to be a little better and you can use other guns after they are converted for use on the Atari. Using the real McCoy will always beat out a mister or other hardware emulation device.

[RockLobster]

8 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Using the real McCoy will always beat out a mister or other hardware emulation device.

I totally agree in principal.   I demonstrate / live this by owning and pursuing more and more platforms and accessories for them.

 

However, even for those of us enjoying these 4 decade old machines, there is a spectrum to this authenticity of the during-era experience.   ...and then each of us have limits to what we'll endure with the old tech.

 

Media substitutes in the form of flashcarts, floppy emus and optical drive replacements is popular even among die hard hobbyists bc few of us truly enjoyed the several minute wait of floppy loads or the relatively unreliable nature of the media.   But we might yearn for the sound and tactile use of them.   Some might even use their 8bit computers on flat panels.  *gasp!*

 

That said/written, I am happy to enjoy using and learning about many of these systems via Component/RGB using original era controllers sometimes via FPGA and sometimes in their original form.

[_The Doctor__]

Been using hard drives with the 8 bit Atari from the second such toys were available. Floppy drives limited many of the older machines in very quantifiable ways. I love the pile of drive substitutes and speeders then and now.