atari 400 - swapping in btype keyboard

[mutil8]

received 2 atari 400s today - both somewhat funtional but both have issues. So I am swapping around parts to hopefully get 1 fully functional 400.

 

Part of this process is swapping over a btype keyboard - this is where I am having difficulty - the ribbon cable from the keyboard does not want to fit into the socket on the 400s 

PC board. However I am able to easily connect in the ribbon cable from a standard membrane keyboard. 

After trying to get the btype ribbon cable in for over half an hour I am worried I will break one of the pins. It is def not constructed as well as the membrane keyboards ribbon cable.

Any suggestions?

 

attached pictures - you can see the original 400 membrane ribbon cable is of much better quality.

[Beeblebrox]

have you tried contact cleaner as an initial lubrication?  it'll evaporate so if successful i'd leave it a while to dry.

 

Presumably the btype ribbon edge connector is thicker than the original?

[mutil8]

all i have is wd40. i had put a little on pins and wiped off didnt help. maybe i should get some into the ribbon socket? 

[Beeblebrox]

WD40 has Teflon in it I believe so not the best to use as it'll actually prevent conductivity.  Don't whatever you do spray it into the connector!!!

 

 

[Mclaneinc]

Yup, puts a thin lubrication layer on where it's sprayed. Wipe off with a bit of isopropanol. WD40 is the sort of stuff you spray on wheel nuts that are rusted / hard to get off, it sinks in lubricating the area's (and removes water if iirc?)

 

I've also seen people use it to lube 1050 drive rails, not recommended, get silicone grease (I believe)

Edited January 14, 2023 by Mclaneinc

[mutil8]

OK thanks for warning - I didnt. I dont do electronics/hardware so dont have usual supplies/tools etc. 

 

[Mclaneinc]

Always ask in here, there's a wealth of help available, also, it's worth mentioning roughly where you are as we are from all over the world and just might be near you to offer some help..

[mutil8]

I am in bay area California. Anyway took a couple breaks and stayed up until 6am :

 

 

 

Only remaining issue I have at this point is the keyboard is not well supported. when typing especially on the right side the keyboard tends to flex down slightly.

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by mutil8

[Vyvyan B.]

4 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

WD40 has Teflon in it I believe

WD40 is mostly Naphtha. No Teflon whatsoever. CRC 2-26 is pretty much the same as Deoxit, only much, much less $$$ and can be bought at any home depot. Works great on connectors, trim pots, faders etc...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Vyvyan B.

[Beeblebrox]

Depends on what wd40 product ya talking about as the product used for oiling bike chains, etc is a no no. Wd40 do a contact cleaner which I use all the time. Latter is obviously fine. 

 

So I mean avoid ya everyday household wd40 ptfe (Teflon) 

 

Polytetrafluoroethylene

Chemical compound

 

Images

 

 

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Description

Polytetrafluoroethylene is a synthetic fluoropolymer of tetrafluoroethylene that has numerous applications. It is one of the best-known and widely applied PFAS. The commonly known brand name of PTFE-based composition is Teflon by Chemours, a spin-off from DuPont, which originally discovered the compound in 1938. Wikipedia

 

[Mclaneinc]

I have the WD40 Contact cleaners, seems good stuff..

[Beeblebrox]

14 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

I have the WD40 Contact cleaners, seems good stuff..

Yup I use it all the time. We can't get the detox brand in the UK on the cheap. 

[+slx]

Whether you use a lubricant or not, it's probably a good idea to get someone to help you as an extra hand or two should be quite helpful to prevent the computer from slipping away, to hold the upper case, etc. These ribbons are easier to insert when using two hands. Be sure to straighten out all the pins before trying and try to push them in as straight down as possible. (I recently modded a friend's 400 and it took me several attempts to get that damned ribbon in.)

[Geister]

Glad to hear you got the pins in the connector.  I have two 400's with the InHome B-Key keyboards.  I see you got the one with the multicolored key-caps.  My original B-Key had the all brown caps. I recently picked up a 400 as part of a collection that has the multicolor key caps and I really think it looks much more stylish.  The keyboards were always a little flappy on the side next to the power supply board, but my original survived me and my sisters kids since the early eighties so it should hold up for you.  Still works great. 

 

I used to do marathon keyboarding events with Antic and Analog.  The B-Key is a decent keyboard.

[mutil8]

11 hours ago, Geister said:

Glad to hear you got the pins in the connector.  I have two 400's with the InHome B-Key keyboards.  I see you got the one with the multicolored key-caps.  My original B-Key had the all brown caps. I recently picked up a 400 as part of a collection that has the multicolor key caps and I really think it looks much more stylish.  The keyboards were always a little flappy on the side next to the power supply board, but my original survived me and my sisters kids since the early eighties so it should hold up for you.  Still works great. 

 

I used to do marathon keyboarding events with Antic and Analog.  The B-Key is a decent keyboard.

wow nice. my first computer was a 400. could barely afford it w 16k and a cassette player. literally bought a small tv from a pawnshop for it. From there it was a struggle trying to learn 6502 on it and atari specific graphics- couldnt really get anywhere.

I kept thinking how great it would be to have the 400 w an aftermarket keyboard, 48k ram, and a couple of disk drives, but at that time I couldnt even afford to keep a car on the road. After a year I sold the 400 just for survival money.

almost immediately my manager at work took pity on me and loaned me $2000 for an apple IIe.  Huge difference in many ways.

So getting this 400 going is basically nastalgia.

 

If there is any easy fix for keyboard flexing down on the right side or a fix for many of the keys feeling slightly mushy when pressed I would like to know. Also curious how good this keyboard was brand new and installed.

 

 

[Geister]

I didn't have a lot of money to spend either but I was employed and had some cash.  I got a 48K upgrade board and installed it myself around the time I put the B-Key in.  I later got a 810 floppy drive while working evenings at Sears selling computers and office stuff.  When the new 1050 drives came in I begged to get the drive and the 800 that were demonstrators and shortly after gave the 400 and 410 tape drive to my sister's kids.

I don't now what to say about the how good the keyboard was brand new as all I had to compare it with was the original 400 keyboard.  Compared to that is was heavenly.  As for the flexing, maybe I'm not remembering something because it only moved a bit.  maybe a plastic clip got broken on your 400 top shell?  You might try getting some high density foam and taping it to the aluminum shell to provide upward force against the bottom of the keyboard like Atari did on some 800XL models.

 

As for keeping a car on the road, my main job was as a Ford mechanic, so I did OK with that.  Drove a lot of beaters though

Edited January 15, 2023 by Geister
Final thought.

[Geister]

On 1/15/2023 at 2:34 AM, mutil8 said:

wow nice. my first computer was a 400. could barely afford it w 16k and a cassette player. literally bought a small tv from a pawnshop for it. From there it was a struggle trying to learn 6502 on it and atari specific graphics- couldnt really get anywhere.

I kept thinking how great it would be to have the 400 w an aftermarket keyboard, 48k ram, and a couple of disk drives, but at that time I couldnt even afford to keep a car on the road. After a year I sold the 400 just for survival money.

almost immediately my manager at work took pity on me and loaned me $2000 for an apple IIe.  Huge difference in many ways.

So getting this 400 going is basically nastalgia.

 

If there is any easy fix for keyboard flexing down on the right side or a fix for many of the keys feeling slightly mushy when pressed I would like to know. Also curious how good this keyboard was brand new and installed.

 

 

I just came across a 400 keyboard support on thingiverse.  I remembered your question above.  I hope this helps.

[mutil8]

9 hours ago, Geister said:

I just came across a 400 keyboard support on thingiverse.  I remembered your question above.  I hope this helps.

thanks interesting item. looks like it might only work for the membrane keyboard though. i have a type b keyboard on the 400. It flexes down slightly on the right side.