Ultimate 1MB/Side3

[Cramer5853]

Hey All,  So I purchased an Ultimate 1mb board and a Side3 cartridge last week.  I installed the U1MB in a 65XE with a motherboard revision of C.  The U1MB installation went fine, it plays well with the Atari and SIO devices.  The one thing it doesn't seem to play well with is the Side3 cartridge.  I do have a different cartridge (Ultimate Atari Cartridge) and, if I type CAR at the D1: Prompt, that cartridge loads fine.  From it's GUI I can load .XEX files and the other files that cartridge is capable of.  The Side3 Cartridge either does not load at all or only for a few seconds and then crashes.  If I put the Side3 in a different 65XE that is not upgraded with the U1MB board, the Side3 works fine.  

 

Today I flashed both the U1MB and the Side3 with the latest firmware (Pictures are below).  Of course I could not flash the side3 in the Atari with the U1MB, I had to use my spare 65XE and mount the .XEX file from an SIO device.  Everything looks up to date, both devices seem to work fine when they are not in the same machine.  The U1MB board always works, it's just the Side3 that does not.  One interesting thing is, when the Side3 is in the 65XE with the U1MB and I'm in the U1MB menu, if I hit L or use the loader...  The green light comes on on the Side3 but no files are seen and it seems that the Side3 is unresponsive at that point.  Has anyone else had an issue like this?

 

My only thought at this point is maybe the power pack it not capable of powering the computer, U1MB, and Side3 all at the same time?  I have tried a different power adaptor but I seriously don't think it would supply any more current than the original Atari Power Pack.  I have no Idea what all three devices draw as far as current or wattage when it's all operating.

 

I don't want to beat my head against this if it's a common issue, I thought I read a few comments of people having a similar issue with their 65XE's.  If you have or have had this issue, have you been able to solve it?

 

Thanks for any advice or info!

John

 

 

[woj]

A lot of us had problems of this sort solved by replacing 74LS08 with 74F08 (look at the current topics, you will find one about one poor soul that got another unsolvable problem after this). I am not saying this is the problem, but that is also something that does not hurt to do if you can source the 74F08 without too much hussle (they are available and cheap, but I had to pay fortune for shipping from Mouser).

[Beeblebrox]

@Cramer5853  firstly what settings do you have in the U1MB bios for the pbi hdd? Drop an image of it.

 

Secondly have you referenced the U1MB manual to make sure you are familiar with it's workings? 

 

https://atari8.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Ultimate-1MB-Incognito-and-1088XEL-U1MB-Firmware-Manual.pdf

 

Set the U1MB bios option to boot to loader. Also have the side3 in loader mode (the little switch on its front). 

Is the rtc retaining it's date and time in the U1MB bios BTW? 

 

The replacing of the 74ls08 chip with the 74f08 does often improve stability with some XE /XL machines. 

 

@woj I think the case you are referring turned out to be caused by a different issue other than installing a 74f08:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/337502-installed-74f08-in-800xl-machine-no-longer-boots/

 

As woj says installing the little socket and buying the 74f08 is a very minimal cost and very easy install if you have basic solder skills. 

 

Edit: see also

 

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/321394-u1mb-incognito-side2-side3-1088xelxld-firmware-40-released/?do=findComment&comment=4838308

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Cramer5853]

Below is an image of the PBI settings.  I believe this is what you were wanting.  I have actually toggled the PBI settings in both positions Enabled and Disabled with the same result.  This is the current setting.  I have downloaded the Installation manual for the U1MB and the firmware manuals.  I have gone through the manuals however, I have only had the device up and running about 3 days.  I'm still getting familiar with it and still referencing the manual as well as Youtube.  The Side3 toggle switch is another thing that I've tried in both positions.

 

I will check my motherboard for the 74ls08 and replace it with the 74F08.  We'll see if that resolves the issue.  I'll also check all the links provided above.  I have to source the 74F08 but, once it's in I will install it and report back to the post.  

 

Thank you all for responding to my post so quickly.

 

 

[Beeblebrox]

@Cramer5853Sure. FYI enable the hard disk setting for sure. Gives you the pbi hardisk functionality from the Side3 and also full Atr support. 

 

I think (fingers crossed) replacing the 74ls08 with the 74f08 is a very wise move. 

 

Also after you do again try both the original power supply as well a modern one. 

 

Where are you based? 

 

74f08s in the UK on ebay (link dead so just posting a pic of my last order to give you the specs) 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Incidentally you will often find 2 x jumper wires attached to the original 74ls08 and jumpered to the 74ls138 to the left of it (from memory). It was a common factory mod Atari did. (Have no idea what it is for mind).

 

When socketing and replacing the ls08 with the f08 I always just replicate these jumper wires (under the PCB). I hate directly soldering to chip legs. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[flashjazzcat]

Yeah. BIOS settings have no bearing whatsoever on the issue as described. It's the problem usually addressed by 74F08, and hopefully that will fix it.

 

[Cramer5853]

Great info and support guys!  I’m ordering a few 74F08’s as we speak.  I’ve edited my profile to give my location but, I am in the United States.  I buy ALOT of stuff from the UK and all over so, I will utilize the link above if nothing fast and local turns up.  I will look for the jumper wires and, I also like them on the back side so, more than likely I will move them if they are on top.  Sometimes I use wire wrap which I think is cleaner but…. I’m not in front of the Atari now so I will have to look at it when I get home.

 

 Again, I will let you all know how it turns out once the new IC is installed.

[Beeblebrox]

@Cramer5853  no worries. Fingers crossed

 

One other thing I've just picked up from this related thread which also may be worth considering if you still have issues, (and which I'd not really been aware of) is the CPU. The following thread's issue was found to be nothing to do with SIDE3 or U1MB causing it and ultimately resolved by replacing the Mexican brand 6502 CPU with another manufactuered elsewhere:

 

 

 

[Teapot]

Jameco.com has the 74F08 for $0.45.

 

And then ~$5 for shipping. I always try to wait until I have multiple things to order. Or I wander through the listings for something to inspire me and add that. Because a lower shipping-per-item feels better even if the charge is still $5. 

 

[Cramer5853]

Got my 74F08's today.  I had snipped the LS out and added a socket in preparation for receiving it.  Long story short...  It worked.  The U1MB and Side3 are working together very well now.  I guess I need to find software to take advantage of all this memory.  I also need to learn the process for partitioning a hard disk or two on an SD card.  Through all this I saw a video by Flashjazzcat using a USB to PC link to load disk images and, that looked so convenient and fast!  That will be my next upgrade, I'm reading and learning that process right now.  Actually I'd like to use a Raspberry Pi 400 if possible.  That's a post for another day I guess.

 

Thank you everyone for all your help!

[woj]

I got my U1MB/Side3 combo in September last year, still discovering things, like that you can get from the U1MB SDX to the Side3 SDX like you did above, had no idea!

 

Happy it's sorted out!

[Beeblebrox]

@Cramer5853 that's great news. Simple fix in the grand scheme of things.

 

Partitioning the card is fairly straightforward once you know how and have done it once. (It can be quite daunting at first). 

FJC has plenty of vids on the subject and a lot of it is just reading the manual and also the apt guide. Go to FJC's website and download from the apt pages. 

 

https://atari8.co.uk/apt/toolkit/

 

The main thing with the Side3 firmware is now. you have access to a fat FMS r/w from the loader itself and also with the fat CIO /DOS. You can create large disk images directly from within the loader itself as well. 

 

More info here :https://atari8.co.uk/firmware/side3/

 

Which has a few videos on page worth watching. 

 

The main bonus of having access to the fat is that there is huge potential for programmers to use the vast amount of space you can r/w to on the Sdcard in games and take advantage of the fast data transfer. 

 

See this video short:

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[Wilheim]

Does anyone know if a 74hc08 could be an alternative instead of a 74f08? The hc series are more common in my country.

[Cramer5853]

I’m not sure if anyone has tried an HC but, an HC will switch faster than an LS and, I thought about trying it myself.  The F series is easily obtained for me so, I just went with the sure fix.  If you’re having issues, it certainly wont hurt trying the HC.  

 

Hopefully someone knows the answer to this question for sure.  If you try an HC, let us know if it worked for you.

 

 

[+Stephen]

4 hours ago, Wilheim said:

Does anyone know if a 74hc08 could be an alternative instead of a 74f08? The hc series are more common in my country.

The only thing I can say, is when I was trouble shooting a PG/M issue with my 1088XEL beta build, I tried the initially specced 74LS08, a 74HCT08 (hi-speed CMOs TTL compatible), but in the end it took a 74F08 to fix the issue. I realize this is a different issue, and there would be no harm in trying.

[flashjazzcat]

On the subject of 74F08, I just had to order another half a dozen today after I realised I'd ran out. Somehow I've gone through a dozen or more of those chips over the past two years after having to stuff them in A8s (usually XEs) in order to get them to work with SIDE3.

 

Encountered a different one today, however. Mint 600XL, here for 64K, s-video and Ultimate 1MB. Customer also bought a SIDE 3.1, and I was concerned when the machine booted to the self-test when the SIDE3 was trying to boot into the loader or SDX. No cart, no problem. Fearing an issue with the machine itself, I grabbed my SIDE3.1 (an early production unit, I believe) and put it in the 600XL. Worked like a charm. Swapped it with the customer cart. Booted to memory test. Back to my cart: no problem.

 

Neither 74F08 nor 74HCT08 having made a jot of difference, I replaced the 600XL's Synertek CPU with an NCR processor, which may have done the trick. My SIDE 3.1 has slightly different buffer ICs to the production carts, it turns out (as if we needed more variable factors), but other than that, the two cartridges should be absolutely identical in every respect.

 

In any case: a CPU brand swap is certainly something worth trying if 'the usual fix' doesn't help.

[_The Doctor__]

No mexico cpu's and 74F08 or 74act08 fix usually cures the problems, however if a buffer chip is causing such issues, it's riding the edge of an already on the edge situation. Maybe the buffer ic's need a change on the carts, since every other device out there is happy otherwise.