Powering disk drives on or off with disk inserted.

[stushug]

I've read in the instruction manuals to NEVER power the drive on or off with a disk inserted. I have an XF551 and a HAPPY 1050.  I've watched many videos online where they do just that. Is there any apparent damage that can/may be caused? Just wondering.

[+Nezgar]

I've definitely corrupted disks in drives attached to an ATR-8000 by powering it up with a disk in and latched. I've personally never corrupted a disk in a 1050 or 810, but I believe I saw there are design enhancements in the 1050 schematic that protect the write head from surges during poweron/poweroff.

 

There are issues with the original power board 810's that could corrupt data if a disk was in & latched as there is also no write circuit protection there, but I believe was later improved with the Grass-valley set of upgrade boards that present in "most" but the earliest of 810's, as many people back then would have upgraded them if they didn't have it already for the reliability improvements.

 

Since the 810's always relocate the head to track 39 when spinning down, it was most likely that you would corrupt a sector on track 39 - which I guess was a design decision to protect against otherwise corrupting important boot/VTOC sectors on track 0...

[Beeblebrox]

AFAIK it's not good practice but I don't think it is that much of a problem if you do. 

 

What is a major no no is pulling or inserting the SIO plug whilst the drive and/or Atari is on. It can fry chips on the drive's pcb (and possibly the Atari's too(?)) 

 

I think same goes for pulling and inserting the power whist the power switch is on. 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Beeblebrox

[cwilbar]

2 hours ago, Nezgar said:

I've definitely corrupted disks in drives attached to an ATR-8000 by powering it up with a disk in and latched. I've personally never corrupted a disk in a 1050 or 810, but I believe I saw there are design enhancements in the 1050 schematic that protect the write head from surges during poweron/poweroff.

 

There are issues with the original power board 810's that could corrupt data if a disk was in & latched as there is also no write circuit protection there, but I believe was later improved with the Grass-valley set of upgrade boards that present in "most" but the earliest of 810's, as many people back then would have upgraded them if they didn't have it already for the reliability improvements.

 

Since the 810's always relocate the head to track 39 when spinning down, it was most likely that you would corrupt a sector on track 39 - which I guess was a design decision to protect against otherwise corrupting important boot/VTOC sectors on track 0...

Sadly, years ago (BITD) I corrupted 2 or 3 floppy disks this way.  At least with an 810 (with the grass valley set).  I don't recall ever having that happen with the 1050 drive, but I think by the time I bought the 1050 I became much more careful, so I couldn't say if it could happen with a 1050, but it most definitely CAN with an 810.

 

[zzip]

I always had the impression that there might be a short EMF burst when powering on a drive that might affect the floppy, but never saw anything to confirm that.

 

There's plenty of computers where the floppy drive is built in and the computer needed the disk to boot the OS so for those computers the drive is almost always powered on with a disk inserted. with no ill effects.

[_The Doctor__]

You can mess up a disk loaded in an 810 and there were warnings not to power it on or off like that. The 1050 was a safer bet for this sort of thing not happening. Why take the chance? It will most likely be the universe laughing at you when the one time it really matters it will zap a few sector or tracks on your disk.

 The other warning was to wait for the busy light to go out, so many people didn't wait for that to happen, certain companies went back to locking the drive eject with solenoids or electronic eject lock outs. This still didn't prevent people turning the power off to the computer or drive during saves though. Ah the good old days.

Edited February 6, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[zzip]

1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said:

The 1050 was a safer bet for this sort of thing not happening.

I'm pretty sure my 1050 did have a warning about this in the manual though

[gilsaluki]

I agree, try not to insert/remove floppies while the drive is in spin mode.  Wait till the heads are parked.  That being said, and I am certain most here, have been impatient and yanked a disk out prior to the spin cycle not completed.  I have been fortunate not to has messed up either a drive or a disk.  That being said, patience is the word of the day here.