What is the ultimate A8 game you have ever played?

[oky2000]

12 minutes ago, Keatah said:

Star Raiders is an Atari brand and it'd seem awkward on a Commodore product. And most games on C-64 seem sluggish compared to Atari 400/800. In fact Apple II is quicker on the draw than the 64. SR would need to remain snappy and responsive, and I don't think that's gonna happen.

Any game that is using a bitmap screen on other computers with a sensible true bitmap arrangement (rows of 1 pixel high lines x vertical resolution of screen) adds an extra level of complexity for the programmer to deal with because the C64 'bitmap' is actually arranged as 8 pixel wide columns 8 pixels high and then you move across to the next column of 8x8 pixels like a grid of 40x25 user definable character set cells to be filled in every 1/50 or 1/60th of a second. Even on the Plus/4 that uses exactly the same arrangement as C64 the 1.75mhz 65xx CPU of Plus/4 is still not going to yield Atari 400/800 performance because of this weird layout you have to account for in your display driver code for the game engine.

 

(the VIC-II bitmap screen is a hack and has to be like that because the sprite hardware takes up 3/4 of the surface area of the silicon apparently and the TED chip is just the VIC-II with the sprite supporting silicon area removed more or less).

[Albert]

Lots of fun games mentioned here!

 

The very first game I saw on an Atari 800 was Star Raiders, sometime before 1980 (so I would have been less than ten years old).  I thought it was absolutely incredible, but I didn't really get to play it, as the adults didn't want me to touch the machine, so all I could do was watch.  You can bet that when I finally got my own Atari 8-bit (800XL), that's one of the first games I played to death.  Amusingly, the first time I played Star Raiders was on the Atari 2600, as I received the game for Christmas one year (well before I owned an 8-bit computer).  Although not as good as the 8-bit version, it was still quite fun, and I played the hell out of it.

 

For me, the Ultimate Atari 8-bit Game would probably be Alternate Reality:The City.  This was another game I got to witness before I owned an Atari 8-bit.  A friend of mine showed it to me one day, and I was absolutely floored by the intro, and then seeing the game itself, I knew i had to have my own Atari computer.  I greatly enjoyed Alternate Reality, and of course, it's sequel, The Dungeon.  It's really a shame that this series was never completed and we never got to see how the story played out.

 

I loved all four of the Lucasfilm games, but Rescue on Fractalus and Koronis Rift got the most play. Rescue on Fracalus was the first game that scared the crap out of me with the alien banging on your windshield, and I had absolutely no idea that was in the game.  I nearly fell out of my damn chair, and back then I was playing on a somewhat large TV and sitting fairly close to it. 

 

Another of my absolute favorites was Bounty Bob Strikes Back.  The high score screen alone was amazing.  I also played Miner 2049er, but BBSB took the game to a whole new level. 

 

Other favorites of mine include Archon, Rainbow Walker, M.U.L.E., Tail of Beta Lyrae, and Alley Cat.  I'm sure there are other games I'm forgetting, but everything I've listed so far are games I greatly enjoyed and spent a lot of time with. 

 

Sadly, I haven't played many homebrew games on the Atari 8-bit, and I know there are quite a few absolutely fantastic games.  I sure as hell will get to them someday. 

 

 ..Al

[ClausB]

To be fair, after all the ANTIC DMA, the 6502 runs effectively about 1.3 MHz in Star Raiders.

[Rybags]

Probably a bit more... but still it'd be a decent advantage then the linear bitmap in most cases makes rendering quicker as well.

The flickering stars - I don't think the intention was to create the perception of more lumas, I think it's just that stuff gets rendered without regard to relative position vs VBlank.

[leech]

10 hours ago, Albert said:

Rescue on Fracalus was the first game that scared the crap out of me with the alien banging on your windshield, and I had absolutely no idea that was in the game.  I nearly fell out of my damn chair, and back then I was playing on a somewhat large TV and sitting fairly close to it. 

My brother did the same thing as I was watching play it, then I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.  Best jump scare in a game ever!

[Knimrod]

10 hours ago, Albert said:

Rescue on Fracalus was the first game that scared the crap out of me with the alien banging on your windshield, and I had absolutely no idea that was in the game.  I nearly fell out of my damn chair, and back then I was playing on a somewhat large TV and sitting fairly close to it.

Same for me.  It startled the bejeepers out of me when the alien popped up and started banging on the window.  Gave me quite an adrenaline rush that first time.  I was always into flight simulations and this was about the best available at the time so I was attracted.  Bonus for the gameplay!  When I originally played it, it was called "Behind Jaggi Lines".  Other than that, Jumpman was the hands down family favorite and I was a huge fan of the arcade game Berzerk so when it became available on the 8-bit, I was all over it.  It was about as close to the arcade game as you could want with even the voice phrases; "Stop the humanoid! Stop the intruder!", "The humanoid must not escape!" and "Chicken! Fight like a robot!" (among others).  Awesome!

[leech]

1 minute ago, Knimrod said:

Same for me.  It startled the bejeepers out of me when the alien popped up and started banging on the window.  Gave me quite an adrenaline rush that first time.  I was always into flight simulations and this was about the best available at the time so I was attracted.  Bonus for the gameplay!  When I originally played it, it was called "Behind Jaggi Lines".  Other than that, Jumpman was the hands down family favorite and I was a huge fan of the arcade game Berzerk so when it became available on the 8-bit, I was all over it.  It was about as close to the arcade game as you could want with even the voice phrases; "Stop the humanoid! Stop the intruder!", "The humanoid must not escape!" and "Chicken! Fight like a robot!" (among others).  Awesome!

I've seen three names for the game, Rescue on Fractulus, Rescue Mission, and Behind Jaggi Lines.  Amusingly the first and last are a great play on words.  Rescue Mission sounds very generic.  I have no idea besides the title screen what the differences are, if any.

[Albert]

14 minutes ago, Knimrod said:

Other than that, Jumpman was the hands down family favorite

Oh yeah, Jumpman and Jumpman Jr. are two other games I greatly enjoyed.  Very similar to Miner 2049er and perhaps more evil.

 

 ..Al

[oky2000]

11 hours ago, Albert said:

I loved all four of the Lucasfilm games, but Rescue on Fractalus and Koronis Rift got the most play. Rescue on Fracalus was the first game that scared the crap out of me with the alien banging on your windshield, and I had absolutely no idea that was in the game.  I nearly fell out of my damn chair, and back then I was playing on a somewhat large TV and sitting fairly close to it. 

 

 

Haha thanks for sharing that. First time I played it same thing happened, my friend never told me about the alien pilots and although the TV was only 16 or 18 inch CRT his Atari was connected up to the hi-fi so that made me jump too. I remember the magazines were told by Activision UK not to mention the alien pilots smashing the screen. There was also the slight issue of A for Airlock and S for Systems being right next to each other so after that you got a bit jumpy and could accidentally open the airlock and let the Jaggi pilots in.

 

The Eidolon is a good game but it's really something you have to sit down and plan out rather than just pick up and play like Ballblazer and Fractalus. 

[oky2000]

28 minutes ago, leech said:

I've seen three names for the game, Rescue on Fractulus, Rescue Mission, and Behind Jaggi Lines.  Amusingly the first and last are a great play on words.  Rescue Mission sounds very generic.  I have no idea besides the title screen what the differences are, if any.

Behind Jaggi Lines was the development name and it was copied and leaked by somebody they sent the almost(?) complete version. There may be subtle differences between that and Rescue on Fractalus but David Fox famously said when people told him they remember 'Behind Jaggi Lines' he knew they were pirates!

[_The Doctor__]

Don't know, but I can Surmise I am rescuing someone on a scienfictiony named place as Fractulus as being a rescue scenario on a ceslestial body or planet.

Behind Jaggi lines engenders thoughts of being in a dangerous situation behind alien territorial lines using the science fiction type name of Jaggi giving a clue you are in space or elsewhere against these 'Jaggi', Nearly identical in scope.

The Rescue Mission is generic enough because it was just that, a generic place holder for a work in progress, a prototype. It's not uncommon for that to be the case at all.

[zzip]

57 minutes ago, leech said:

I've seen three names for the game, Rescue on Fractulus, Rescue Mission, and Behind Jaggi Lines.  Amusingly the first and last are a great play on words.  Rescue Mission sounds very generic.  I have no idea besides the title screen what the differences are, if any.

I never heard the 'Rescue Mission' one.    "Behind Jaggi Lines" was the pre-release working title and I think it only exists as pirate copies.

[Keatah]

I assumed "Jaggi" was because there was no anti-aliasing.

[patjomki]

12 hours ago, Albert said:

Sadly, I haven't played many homebrew games on the Atari 8-bit, and I know there are quite a few absolutely fantastic games.  I sure as hell will get to them someday. 

 

 ..Al

 

You should at least play "Albert". 🤪

[ClausB]

3 hours ago, Rybags said:

Probably a bit more... but still it'd be a decent advantage then the linear bitmap in most cases makes rendering quicker as well.

The flickering stars - I don't think the intention was to create the perception of more lumas, I think it's just that stuff gets rendered without regard to relative position vs VBlank.

You have to disagree again?

 

I calculated 1.32.

 

Distant stars flicker darker and near stars brighter. Look at the code.

[manopac]

Ballblazer

Karateka

Bruce Lee

Summer Games

Raid Over Moscow

Beach Head I+II

Dropzone

Ghostbusters

.... too many to mention

[_The Doctor__]

I am going to say, AtariBlast, Prince of Persia, AlleyCat, Star Raiders, The Last Starfighter, Space Harrier, oh just forget it, I might as well just say over half the new Games and homebrews just kick *ss and most of the back catalogue does as well. I can't pick anything out at the moment because the editor might eventually run out of room. RGB, Yoomp, there is a whole slew of puzzle / brain games. Let's face it, Atari sh*t rocks. These kind of threads always pop up, and it's hard not to include the Past stuff with the new. The programmers, graphists, and musicians really do special work when they bring it to the Atari. Maybe it's because the machine just inspires the best from them?... and then in turn the best gameplay results on the Atari.

Edited March 2, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[oky2000]

Yeah, the intro for Last Starfighter was brilliant. Loved the film, loved the game.

 

Perhaps "Rescue Mission" is the one where David Fox took it to George Lucas before the shooting was implemented and Lucas told Fox to put in the shooting in the game, which he reluctantly did.

 

Surprised at how much was co-funded by Atari for those first two Lucasfilm games after watching the video with David Fox on youtube talking about the early days.

[SlagOMatic]

Others have said it already but I'll throw my voice into it: Star Raiders. Even beyond the fact that it's a solidly good game, the fact that it fits in 8K code is just mind boggling.

 

I would also include Exodus:Ultima III, given the depth and scope of its capabilities, as well as pretty much any of the Infocom titles, given its natural language system in such an efficient amount of code. Although none of them are Atari exclusive, it doesn't change my opinion.

[leech]

2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I am going to say, AtariBlast, Prince of Persia, AlleyCat, Star Raiders, The Last Starfighter, Space Harrier, oh just forget it, I might as well just say over half the new Games and homebrews just kick *ss and most of the back catalogue does as well. I can't pick anything out at the moment because the editor might eventually run out of room. RGB, Yoomp, there is a whole slew of puzzle / brain games. Let's face it, Atari sh*t rocks. These kind of threads always pop up, and it's hard not to include the Past stuff with the new. The programmers, graphists, and musicians really do special work when they bring it to the Atari. Maybe it's because the machine just inspires the best from them?... and then in turn the best gameplay results on the Atari.

No one gives love to Lode Runner's Rescue...

[zzip]

1 hour ago, oky2000 said:

Surprised at how much was co-funded by Atari for those first two Lucasfilm games after watching the video with David Fox on youtube talking about the early days.

It was a big Atari/Lucasfilm co-effort,  but that deal fell apart due to either the massive piracy of the leaked "Beyond Jaggi Lines" (leaked by an Atari employee apparantly) or the Tramiel buy-out , depending on which source you believe.

[Keatah]

I remember playing BlueMax (briefly) when I was a child. I found the game too hard and difficult. It seemed "arcade difficult" to me. And it's perspective was just a little off. Whereas with Zaxxon I didn't have any issues and played it over and over.

 

And I'll add in Miner 2049'er. Loved the game all around. I was a little scared of how BountyBob would explode and sink into the ground. What a horrible way to die!

 

29 minutes ago, leech said:

No one gives love to Lode Runner's Rescue...

I always saw Lode Runner as an Apple II game. I don't even recall seeing on the 400/800 at the time.

 

Can LR even be played today on real hardware + LCD? I know it uses that funky artifacting stuff that wants a CRT.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Keatah

[_The Doctor__]

Lode Runner, and Championship Lode Runner artifact.

Lode Runners Rescue was 3D improved color and sound effects, you could make your own levels and screens etc. too.

[leech]

5 hours ago, patjomki said:

 

You should at least play "Albert". 🤪

Albert really is an excellent and impressive game!!

22 minutes ago, Keatah said:

I remember playing BlueMax (briefly) when I was a child. I found the game too hard and difficult. It seemed "arcade difficult" to me. And it's perspective was just a little off. Whereas with Zaxxon I didn't have any issues and played it over and over.

 

And I'll add in Miner 2049'er. Loved the game all around. I was a little scared of how BountyBob would explode and sink into the ground. What a horrible way to die!

 

I always saw Lode Runner as an Apple II game. I don't even recall seeing on the 400/800 at the time.

 

Can LR even be played today on real hardware + LCD? I know it uses that funky artifacting stuff that wants a CRT.

 

18 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Lode Runner, and Championship Lode Runner artifact.

Lode Runners Rescue was 3D improved color and sound effects, you could make your own levels and screens etc. too.

I did a bunch of tests with Lode Runner on my VBXE'd 130XE and an S-Video / Composite comparison on another system.  Seems there is at least one that doesn't use NTSC artifacts, There were two others that would use it, but had different colors, as NTSC tends to randomly have.  It's been a while since I did all the testing though.  My understanding is that a vast majority of games on the Apple II used artifacting due to lack of decent color capabilities.  I always felt the Atari didn't really need such things, though I suppose if you wanted higher resolutions, it did.

 

Lode Runner's Rescue seems very different overall in the story of the game, but I still enjoyed it's oddness.  (Kind of like how I enjoyed the craziness of Bristles)

[Keatah]

One game I wanted to see ported to the 400/800 was Raid on Bungeling Bay. It was one of the few games I played over and over again on the C64. C64 gaming didn't generate the neuroses in me like Atari games did however.