ATR 8000

[wayne5]

I designed this in the 80's among many other things. I was sent by Ballyalley. I hope he will say Hi.

wayne5

[Albert]

Welcome to AtariAge, Wayne!  I've moved this topic into the Atari 8-bit forum.  While I never had an ATR 8000 (and I was a big Atari 8-bit computer user back in the day), a friend of mine did, and we had a blast using it!

 

 ..Al

[+SoulBuster]

I have three, an extra mother board, co-power and  hd adapter.

 

Thanks for the memories of using it.

[ballyalley]

54 minutes ago, wayne5 said:

I designed [the ATR 8000] in the 80's among many other things. I was sent by Ballyalley. I hope he will say Hi.

 

I'm glad to see you made it over here, Wayne.  I have a video on YouTube from about two years ago called "Atari 8-Bit Collection Part 4 - ATR8000 Overview and CP/M Books."  Wayne commented over there that he created the ATR hardware, so I sent him over to these AtariAge forums.  I'm glad a moderator moved this topic out of the general forum.  Here is my video where I cover the ATR 8000.

 

 

Wayne, although you mentioned in my comment that you don't remember too much about the development of this system, what do you recall?  What can you tell us about you created it?

 

Adam

[ACML]

Wow!  I had an ATR-8000 in college.  I built an IBM XT case with power supply and had two 360K (DSDD) and two 1.2MB (HD) disk drives.  I formatted the 1.2Mb as 77 track, DSDD (8" format) which yielded about 1MB when formatted.  Together in the enclosure, it was called the 2.72MB Monster.  I absolutely used CP/M to write college engineering reports and XY plots using the CP/M Energraphics program.  Ended up with two.  One of the BBS Sysops had a broken one that I bought for $20 (1986).  Turned out to just need a new Z80 and it was back in business.  Loved that unit.  I had a 1MB MIO, but used the ATR-8000 more.  Converted the IBM case, power supply and drives into my first 8086 XT in 1988.  The ATR-8000s got sold on eBay in 2004 for nothing as pat of a lot. Wish I had one now.  Thank you Wayne for the great interface!

 

[wayne5]

1 hour ago, ACML said:

Wow!  I had an ATR-8000 in college.  I built an IBM XT case with power supply and had two 360K (DSDD) and two 1.2MB (HD) disk drives.  I formatted the 1.2Mb as 77 track, DSDD (8" format) which yielded about 1MB when formatted.  Together in the enclosure, it was called the 2.72MB Monster.  I absolutely used CP/M to write college engineering reports and XY plots using the CP/M Energraphics program.  Ended up with two.  One of the BBS Sysops had a broken one that I bought for $20 (1986).  Turned out to just need a new Z80 and it was back in business.  Loved that unit.  I had a 1MB MIO, but used the ATR-8000 more.  Converted the IBM case, power supply and drives into my first 8086 XT in 1988.  The ATR-8000s got sold on eBay in 2004 for nothing as pat of a lot. Wish I had one now.  Thank you Wayne for the great interface!

 

Hi ACML! Thank you for your kind words. I will have to do an archeological dig in my boxes and see what I can find. I have my original unit and a saw the 8 inch adaptor a few years back. It's somewhere. It's really good to hear from a real user. I never had to run the tech line, so I never had much contact with users. Thank you again!

[_The Doctor__]

There was a project started to remake and possibly add to the ATR8000 on the threads here.

I have two of them but cannot find the bridge board/adapter to the hard drives. We can use all the help we can get for the appropriate software that's geared toward the ATR8000. Not that we insist you go digging but it would be awesome. The hope was to modify SIO port speeds as well to make that faster. We have done so for just about all other devices.

 

Love to re create as much as we can or come up with new items to get the job done.

 

We love notes, diagrams, schematics, you name it, quite a diverse bunch here with all different interests surrounding these devices and computers of days gone by.

 

I was very sad to see the floods took the last of the SWP items away...

Edited February 28, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[reifsnyderb]

I started mapping out a schematic for an ATR8000 and didn't get back to it.  If a schematic can be found, and posted, it would make such a re-make a lot easier.   🙂

 

[wayne5]

1 hour ago, ballyalley said:

 

I'm glad to see you made it over here, Wayne.  I have a video on YouTube from about two years ago called "Atari 8-Bit Collection Part 4 - ATR8000 Overview and CP/M Books."  Wayne commented over there that he created the ATR hardware, so I sent him over to these AtariAge forums.  I'm glad a moderator moved this topic out of the general forum.  Here is my video where I cover the ATR 8000.

 

 

Wayne, although you mentioned in my comment that you don't remember too much about the development of this system, what do you recall?  What can you tell us about you created it?

 

Adam

Hi Adam, nice to meet you. You have been inside the box so you saw the board was laid out by hand with tape and Mylar. Somewhere there was a tag 'RSMFS' I think, it meant Russell Smith makes fine software. I designed the box, the board, and brought the concept to SWP. Russell Smith, no relation, wrote most of the software with a guy named Hilly (sp?). Hilly was an MIT guy. The circuit was mine, expect the CTC connection to the data out on the floppy. Russell had a trick way he read sectors with the CTC. It had a disk controller chip, WD1791, I think.

 

I have other stories about this chip and the 1771 in relationship to the Percom Doubler for the TRS-80 SWP stands for Software Publishers. I never saw any software that they sold and the name was mystery to me as well. I feel really bad that I don't remember the owner's name. He was a really good guy and I spent a lot of time with him. I first contacted him about a problem he was having designing a daughter board for the Xerox 820. The 820 had single density 8 inch drives and my friend wanted to make a board to make it double density. I hope I remember this right, the unit had a 1771 and was just a copy of the Big Board.

The 1771 would do single density 8 inch but not double density and to make it more complicated, the data separator was different from the one needed for the 1791 that the daughter board used for double density. His problem was the Z80 just wasn't fast enough to make the data loop. I am old and decrepit now but back then was smart, LOL! We were trying every combination of code just hoping we would get lucky when I had a leap of faith. As I remember, you had to loop on the data available bit in the disk controller, when it went high, you went and got the data, put it in a buffer, bumped the address counter, checked to see if the sector was finished and went back to loop on the available bit again. You ran out of T states and missed the next byte. The solution was to do all those things but not go back to the data available register and do 2 nops then take it for granted that the data would be available and go get it. Then resinc on the third byte. If something went wrong, we would rely on the CRCs to keep us out of trouble. Worked like a hose. I remember

him on the phone with Xerox R&D department, trying to get them interested in buying the thing and the Chief Eng. saying,"I don't need to see it, it's impossible." while we watch the first run being boxed up to ship to people that

that had already bought it.

 

I'll have to do this in installments. It will give time to remember. I'll post some more later Adam. Good to meet you agin.

[wayne5]

5 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

I started mapping out a schematic for an ATR8000 and didn't get back to it.  If a schematic can be found, and posted, it would make such a re-make a lot easier.   🙂

 

I will dig through the files. It's been...30 years? Surly, they haven't turned to dust.

[wayne5]

3 hours ago, Albert said:

Welcome to AtariAge, Wayne!  I've moved this topic into the Atari 8-bit forum.  While I never had an ATR 8000 (and I was a big Atari 8-bit computer user back in the day), a friend of mine did, and we had a blast using it!

 

 ..Al

Thank you for the warm welcome! And putting the thread in the right place. This is a wonderful time, all the things I couldn't afford back then I can buy on Ebay now, LOL.

[wayne5]

3 hours ago, SoulBuster said:

I have three, an extra mother board, co-power and  hd adapter.

 

Thanks for the memories of using it.

Wow, thanks! I forget how much this dog cost. I got one from production to give to my dad. He put it right next to his IMSI with the switches on the front. I didn't have anything to do with the CPM daughter board except troubleshooting. No wait, I had to be the one to lay out the board, I was the only one that could do it. I got royalties and it wasn't a real job. I work on a project basis. At least I did. I'm retired. Thank you again!

[+MrFish]

9 hours ago, wayne5 said:

I designed this in the 80's among many other things.

Cool... always nice to see original developers (hardware or software) drop by.

 

I have a dedicated spot on my website for your creation: Hardware Computerist - SWP ATR8000

I'd be happy to add anything that you're interested to contribute here. I'd also like to give you credit for its design (instead of just SWP, as it is now) in the item's details on my site, if you're interested in that. If you are, you can send your full name in a personal message to me -- if you prefer not posting info like that on a forum.

 

Either way, welcome to the site; it's good to have you here.

 

[ClausB]

Hi, @wayne5, welcome to our little corner of the net.

 

In the day, I wrote DT-80, an 80-column terminal program between the Atari and the ATR8000 over the SIO serial port. My friend, @Knimrod, showed it to SWP and they sent us an ATR8000 for testing. I enjoyed it and used it extensively.

 

Thanks for joining us here.

[ballyalley]

15 hours ago, wayne5 said:

Somewhere [on the ATR 8000's PCB] there was a tag 'RSMFS' I think, it meant Russell Smith makes fine software. [...] I'll have to do this in installments. It will give time to remember. I'll post some more later Adam.

 

Thanks for filling in some details, Wayne.  The next time I have my ATR 8000 out, then I'll look for the semi-secret message.  I like to learn about inside information like this tid-bit.  There are many Atari people here who probably will want to pick your brain and find out all that they can about how the hardware came to be designed.  With some luck, someone from the Antic podcast will contact you and line-up an interview.  They're magical and are able to help people remember tiny details that the interviewees believe that they have forgotten.

 

Adam

[+DjayBee]

7 minutes ago, ballyalley said:

With some luck, someone from the Antic podcast will contact you and line-up an interview.

Tagging @Savetz might increase the probability for it to happen.

[ballyalley]

3 hours ago, DjayBee said:

Tagging @Savetz might increase the probability for it to happen.

 

The Antic crew know about Wayne popping up already, as I told 'em all yesterday.  I think Brad may pop into this thread looking for the right driver for his own ATR 8000.

 

Adam

[wayne5]

On 2/27/2023 at 6:24 PM, ballyalley said:

 

I'm glad to see you made it over here, Wayne.  I have a video on YouTube from about two years ago called "Atari 8-Bit Collection Part 4 - ATR8000 Overview and CP/M Books."  Wayne commented over there that he created the ATR hardware, so I sent him over to these AtariAge forums.  I'm glad a moderator moved this topic out of the general forum.  Here is my video where I cover the ATR 8000.

 

 

Wayne, although you mentioned in my comment that you don't remember too much about the development of this system, what do you recall?  What can you tell us about you created it?

 

Adam

Hi Adam! I want to fill in how your video made me feel really good. I found it some time ago and directed friends to it just to show that the ATR really existed. Thank you for making it. I went through my files and found several copies of the schematic and other documents. It will take me a while to sort through them, so if I don't post for a day or so, that's why. Later man.

[wayne5]

16 hours ago, MrFish said:

Cool... always nice to see original developers (hardware or software) drop by.

 

I have a dedicated spot on my website for your creation: Hardware Computerist - SWP ATR8000

I'd be happy to add anything that you're interested to contribute here. I'd also like to give you credit for its design (instead of just SWP, as it is now) in the item's details on my site, if you're interested in that. If you are, you can send your full name in a personal message to me -- if you prefer not posting info like that on a forum.

 

Either way, welcome to the site; it's good to have you here.

 

Hi Mrfish! Thank you for the spot. I looked at it and I will add what ever I have. As for design credit. Hardly anything is the work of one person alone, although I am the one that sold the idea of this product to SWP and did the hardware designs and mechanical designs, the key software element that made 8"double density possible. As far as I can tell, the ATR 8000 and the Xerox 820 with a SWP adaptor are the only 4meg Z80 computers of the era that could operate 8"double density without some DMA controller, or the like. Give me a few days. I'm old.LOL. Thanks.

[wayne5]

12 hours ago, ClausB said:

Hi, @wayne5, welcome to our little corner of the net.

 

In the day, I wrote DT-80, an 80-column terminal program between the Atari and the ATR8000 over the SIO serial port. My friend, @Knimrod, showed it to SWP and they sent us an ATR8000 for testing. I enjoyed it and used it extensively.

 

Thanks for joining us here.

Cool man! I remember we used an ADM3 I think to talk to the ATR during the development. Not sure about the serial port.

SIOs were/are always a pain to bring up, so I am truly impressed. I still have an ADM3 in my barn. Looking forward to talking to you more.

[wayne5]

22 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

I started mapping out a schematic for an ATR8000 and didn't get back to it.  If a schematic can be found, and posted, it would make such a re-make a lot easier.   🙂

 

I found the schematics...I think. They have ATR 8000 written on them but without a parts list I'll have to compare them to my board. I will be in touch. Thanks for the interest.

[+MrFish]

12 minutes ago, wayne5 said:

Hi Mrfish! Thank you for the spot. I looked at it and I will add what ever I have. As for design credit. Hardly anything is the work of one person alone, although I am the one that sold the idea of this product to SWP and did the hardware designs and mechanical designs, the key software element that made 8"double density possible. As far as I can tell, the ATR 8000 and the Xerox 820 with a SWP adaptor are the only 4meg Z80 computers of the era that could operate 8"double density without some DMA controller, or the like. Give me a few days. I'm old.LOL. Thanks.

Haha... no rush on anything; I'm in no hurry; just letting you know that there's a home for keeping everything together and archiving.

 

Sure, I'd assume you didn't work alone. If you have any other important names that could be credited, maybe it would make more sense for those to be included (sorta like a core group).

 

[wayne5]

22 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

There was a project started to remake and possibly add to the ATR8000 on the threads here.

I have two of them but cannot find the bridge board/adapter to the hard drives. We can use all the help we can get for the appropriate software that's geared toward the ATR8000. Not that we insist you go digging but it would be awesome. The hope was to modify SIO port speeds as well to make that faster. We have done so for just about all other devices.

 

Love to re create as much as we can or come up with new items to get the job done.

 

We love notes, diagrams, schematics, you name it, quite a diverse bunch here with all different interests surrounding these devices and computers of days gone by.

 

I was very sad to see the floods took the last of the SWP items away...

Hi doc! I have found some schematics and other documents. My old diskets however met with a terrible accident a few years back, so I may not be able to help much there. I'm working on a care package. I'm old and slow so...you know.

[wayne5]

Ok, I have PDF files of the schematics. There are extra pages because some pages had handwritten changes and I don't remember what they were all about. My board has REV C on it, and I'm sure there were changes to help with the 8088 board after I left. I found a user's manual, but I saw a copy on Mr. Fish's site and also a copy of the schematics. I also have a PDF of a mail out that had interesting information about SWP and prices.

ATR8000A.pdf ATR8000B.pdf

[+MrFish]

59 minutes ago, wayne5 said:

Ok, I have PDF files of the schematics. There are extra pages because some pages had handwritten changes and I don't remember what they were all about. My board has REV C on it, and I'm sure there were changes to help with the 8088 board after I left. I found a user's manual, but I saw a copy on Mr. Fish's site and also a copy of the schematics. I also have a PDF of a mail out that had interesting information about SWP and prices.

ATR8000A.pdf 333.42 kB · 9 downloads ATR8000B.pdf 1.15 MB · 5 downloads

 

Thanks for the scans.

 

Just quickly, I rotated the pages, ordered the schematics, and put the BOM and schematics into separate PDF's.

 

SWP ATR8000 - Specs & Pricing.pdf

SWP ATR8000 - Schematics.pdf

SWP ATR8000 - BOM.pdf