Anyone experience no color/b&w-only video through an analog-to-hdmi converter?

[malachykidd]

I recently decided to unbox and expand my Atari 8-bit collection.  Lacking a suitable CRT television or monitor, I bought a BenQ GW2480 LCD monitor to use with a Tendak composite/s-video to HDMI converter I already had.  I also moved an old SVHS VCR onto the workbench, to use with a 600XL and any computers without functional monitor ports, and I bought a pair of Atari monitor-to-RCA & S-Video cables from TBA.

 

When I connected a 130XE to the video converter with a monitor cable using S-Video, I was disappointed to see a B&W READY prompt.  I had the same result with composite and via the RF modulator and VCR, I tried the other monitor cable (which wouldn't affect RF anyway), and adjusting R38 did nothing.  (As an aside, I checked the voltage off pin 17 of the GTIA, per Sams Computerfacts, and saw a range of 0V to 8V, suggesting R38 is fine.)

 

The video converter displays color bars when no input signal is detected, I successfully displayed an old Android media streamer via composite, and the VCR's menu has a blue background over S-Video and composite, so there's no inherent problem with color between the converter's inputs and the monitor.

 

I then checked an 800 (composite, from the monitor port, and RF) and 600XL (RF) with the same results: B&W only.

 

I've had the 130XE for more than a decade, but the 800 and 600XL I just bought from separate sellers, and the 600XL had photos (purportedly) of the computer displaying in color on a television.  It's possible all three computers now have problems with their color circuitry, but that is very unlikely, and suggests a compatibility issue with the HDMI video converter.  I opened the Tendak converter and it's all surface mount components-- no potentiometers, dipswitches, or other configurables.  I've ordered a new unit (different manufacturer), and will report back.

 

Have any of you experienced this?

 

[_The Doctor__]

could be the VCR, could be a cable, could be you need to do the following on your 800XL

On the underside of the motherboard, solder chroma-signal wire from R67/R68 junction, to chroma pin in video DIN port pin 5

I doubt very much there is something wrong with ALL of your Atari machines.

 

Make sure you have a clean 5 volts at the chips while the machines are on.

[ojanhk]

Could it be a PAL / NTSC mismatch ? Can you force the converter to use one or the other ?

[malachykidd]

8 hours ago, ojanhk said:

Could it be a PAL / NTSC mismatch ? Can you force the converter to use one or the other ?

 

The converter is NTSC, as are the 600XL and 130XE (no PAL components are the motherboards).

[+x=usr(1536)]

11 hours ago, malachykidd said:

Tendak composite/s-video to HDMI converter

You and I may have the same unit - left & right audio inputs, composite input, S-Video input, HDMI output?  If so, they have some, shall we say, quirks.  B&W output isn't one that I've seen from mine, however.  It also seems to have the no-user-adjustable parts PCB that you're describing.

 

The one thing that seems to have been constant in your testing is the BenQ monitor.  How are you feeding signal to it, and what does it use for input?

[malachykidd]

4 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

You and I may have the same unit - left & right audio inputs, composite input, S-Video input, HDMI output?  If so, they have some, shall we say, quirks.  B&W output isn't one that I've seen from mine, however.  It also seems to have the no-user-adjustable parts PCB that you're describing.

 

The one thing that seems to have been constant in your testing is the BenQ monitor.  How are you feeding signal to it, and what does it use for input?

 

That's the one.

 

I'm using HDMI directly from the video converter to the monitor's HDMI port, and tested at both 1080p and 720p.  I suppose I could dig out a HDMI-to-DP adapter to test with, but I doubt it would change things.

 

I forgot to mention that I also tested with a second monitor-- also BenQ, but a different model (EX3501R)-- using a different HDMI cable, but same effect.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

9 minutes ago, malachykidd said:

That's the one.

 

I'm using HDMI directly from the video converter to the monitor's HDMI port, and tested at both 1080p and 720p.  I suppose I could dig out a HDMI-to-DP adapter to test with, but I doubt it would change things.

At this point, skip that for the moment.  More:

9 minutes ago, malachykidd said:

I forgot to mention that I also tested with a second monitor-- also BenQ, but a different model (EX3501R)-- using a different HDMI cable, but same effect.

If you have a modern LCD TV, there's a good chance that it may support analogue TV channels over RF.  The newer the TV, the more of a crapshoot it is as to whether or not it will, but in general chances are good.

 

Can you test RF input directly to the TV?  Assuming that the TV can do analogue, you should see colour from all of the machines.  I realise that this is effectively what you were shooting for by going through the VCR, but it would be helpful to get the video chain boiled down to its lowest common denominators of computer and TV if possible.

 

You'll likely need an RCA to F-Type adapter in order to connect the machine(s) to the TV's RF input.

 

Note that none of this discounts what was said earlier re: luma and chroma not being connected, but RF should always output colour.

[malachykidd]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Can you test RF input directly to the TV?

 

My TV supports analog RF, but it requires channels be found via a scan-- I can't enter an arbitrary channel number-- and it didn't detect the 130XE when connected via the antenna connector.  I used the same cable and RCA-to-F-Type adapter as previously on the workbench, so I know they pass at least some signal and the RF modulator works, but the TV didn't register it.  Not a big deal for most 8-bit computers, and I might be able to get the scan to work using a different device, like the VCR.

 

I then connected to the TV's composite input using the monitor cable, and that was a complete success: white(ish) READY prompt on a blue background.  So, absolute worst case, I can use the television and composite to work on the computers.

 

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Note that none of this discounts what was said earlier re: luma and chroma not being connected

 

Yeah.  I know chroma is connected on the 130XE because I traced the chroma pin on the monitor jack (and I believe chroma was connected by default on all 130XEs, unlike the earlier models).  Color should also always be present on composite connections, as that's mixed on the motherboard.

 

Anyway, I expect to receive the new video converter today-- hopefully it plays nice with the Ataris.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

50 minutes ago, malachykidd said:

My TV supports analog RF, but it requires channels be found via a scan-- I can't enter an arbitrary channel number-- and it didn't detect the 130XE when connected via the antenna connector.

Yep, that can happen with modern TV tuners.  If the XE was far enough off of the centre frequency of whatever channel it's set to output on, the TV may not pick it up.  We've got three Samsungs that are pretty forgiving in that regard, but the Panasonic I use for the Ataris is really picky.

 

Still, adjusting the RF pot (can't recall which one it is on a 130XE off the top of my head) may help with the scan picking it up and storing the channel.

 

If the VCR is outputting on, say, channel 3 and the TV can get a lock on it, unplug it from RF, set the 130XE to channel 3, and plug it into RF.  That should hopefully get you around the channel lock problem while you adjust it.

55 minutes ago, malachykidd said:

Anyway, I expect to receive the new video converter today-- hopefully it plays nice with the Ataris.

Cool.  What did you end up getting?

 

BTW: I picked up on something you said previously that I evidently glossed over at first reading.  Namely:

14 hours ago, malachykidd said:

The video converter displays color bars when no input signal is detected

What's interesting is that mine only displays a blue screen with 'No Signal' plastered over it in that instance.  I'm wondering if there aren't multiple hardware & software revisions out there for these things.

[malachykidd]

59 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Cool.  What did you end up getting?

The Startech VID2HDCON (there's also a VID2HDCON2, which is less expensive and-- I think-- less capable).  It has more options for HDMI output resolutions: 1080p, 720p, 576p, and 480p (the latter two are auto-sensing on a single switch selector), versus just 1080p and 720p on the Tendak.  Apparently will handle both NTSC and PAL, and it has an "output mode" switch to set whether the output is a monitor or television (we'll see how that works, but I think it controls the aspect ratio).  Still inputs composite and S-Video, but audio-in is via 3.5mm instead of RCA.

 

[_The Doctor__]

Sometimes auto sensing is a problem, that's why some of us old school folks prefer switches that we can control things with.

[malachykidd]

The new video converter arrived and... I have color!  I tested with the 130XE using S-Video directly and RF->VCR->S-Video.  I'll test more tonight and/or tomorrow, then get down to the business of cleaning up the computers and mapping out modifications.

 

TL;DR: cheap video converters can have compatibility issues with old 8-bit computers (and presumably consoles), so you might have to buy a replacement.

[_The Doctor__]

as per usual it wasn't the Ataris, thank you for not tearing the machines apart, limb from limb on some wild hardware chase. Many converters and 'tele vision displays' are really junky patch work firmware and parts from the China C P.   Garbage for us to buy with money that serves their purpose only. Maybe some of the factories will come back to places that work for the best possible outcomes at the least possible price point, like days of old.

[+x=usr(1536)]

5 hours ago, malachykidd said:

Startech VID2HDCON

If you have the time, please do a review (however brief) of it once you've had a chance to work with it for a bit.  The Tendak has been out of my A/V setup for a while as things were being rearranged, but it never made its way back in as I decided partway through to replace it.  That Startech unit is one of the ones I've been considering.

1 hour ago, malachykidd said:

The new video converter arrived and... I have color!  I tested with the 130XE using S-Video directly and RF->VCR->S-Video.

Excellent news, and glad to hear it