How to identify a 6502C made in Mexico

[ACML]

How can you identify if the 6502C SALLY was made in Mexico?  The manufacturer code (example -12) should be the giveaway, but I don't have the manufacturer cypher wheel to determine.  From what I can gather on the internet (Google search), the -12 is made by Rockwell in Mexico.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by ACML

[mimo]

The ones that I have replaced have all been clearly stamped with Rockwell Mexico on them

[ACML]

Lately, I've had to replace two Mexico 6502C SALLYs.  One had a timing issue with reliably booting the cartridge and one caused random lookups.  The majority of the Mexico (-12)s are probably still good, as I have/had several other machines with them and they work no problem.  Maybe it's just confined to a few lot numbers. Most people will not have an issue with them as the problems I encountered were for very specific hardware combinations and if I had a different BASIC cart, the one would have never needed replacement.

 

 

 

[ACML]

Learning more from a new thread.  Maybe the -12 just means Rockwell as manufacturer, but not necessarily the location (i.e. Mexico).  If it's made in Mexico, does it say Mexico on the chip?

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

4 hours ago, ACML said:

Lately, I've had to replace two Mexico 6502C SALLYs.  One had a timing issue with reliably booting the cartridge and one caused random lookups.

 

After having trouble with them in a couple of machines (the 7800 in particular), I've been on a kick of periodically replacing them with Synertek SALLYs in any machine that has them.  More:

4 hours ago, ACML said:

The majority of the Mexico (-12)s are probably still good, as I have/had several other machines with them and they work no problem.

Same, but given the Rockwells' reputation, I decided that it just wasn't worth finding out how well they were (or weren't) working at some random point in the future.  Having said that, I did hold on to a couple that were probably good just to have them around for quick testing.

4 hours ago, ACML said:

Maybe it's just confined to a few lot numbers. Most people will not have an issue with them as the problems I encountered were for very specific hardware combinations and if I had a different BASIC cart, the one would have never needed replacement.

There's just no telling.  The worst offender that I found was in my 7800 - replaced it with a Synertek and a lot of weird little behaviours went away.

24 minutes ago, ACML said:

If it's made in Mexico, does it say Mexico on the chip?

Not necessarily.

[TZJB]

Does anyone have any pictures of the various flavours of Sally by any chance, and suggestions of where to buy the good ones?

[ACML]

3 hours ago, TZJB said:

Does anyone have any pictures of the various flavours of Sally by any chance, and suggestions of where to buy the good ones?

I've found a few examples.  The Rockwell without the "Mexico" stamp seems to be the most common I've come across.  I'm not sure "all" Rockwells (-12) are suspect as there are just too many still in circulation and if they were routinely bad, the Atari community would already know by now that they had an issue.  Maybe, just maybe, we are seeing more Rockwell (-12) failures due to their abundance (i.e. largest sample size, largest number of failures).  The Synertek (-3) ones are second most common, at least to me.  Whenever I see a MOS 6502 (-6), it's usually a 6502A or B.  I don't recall seeing too many NCR (-29) versions.  Don't recognize the (-35) manufacturer (China maybe?). 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by ACML

[_The Doctor__]

flip the chips over, is there something to be read on some of them?

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

flip the chips over, is there something to be read on some of them?

As an example, this is the one that was pulled from (IIRC) the 7800:

 

[_The Doctor__]

Yup, that's what I expected. If it's not on the front, it's normally on the back. That's the starting point for a pictorial with marking descriptions to nail these down.

Edited March 19, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Yup, that's what I expected. If it's not on the front, it's on the back. That's the starting point for a pictoral with marking descriptions to nail these down.

Agreed.  FWIW, I have pulled a few (and not just Rockwells) with no info on the back.  If I kept them I almost certainly don't have easy access to them right now, but if I run across them I'll upload photos.

[ACML]

49 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

As an example, this is the one that was pulled from (IIRC) the 7800:

I never thought to look at the bottom, but you are correct, I looked at five Rockwell (-12) SALLYs and all five say Mexico on the bottom.  I also have two that say Mexico on the top.   So, I don't have any Rockwell SALLYs that are not made in Mexico.  If I remember correctly, I received a number of them form B&C Computervisions.   They still sell the 400/800 processor card with an ANTIC, GTIA and SALLY for only $29.  It was the cheapest way to get all three (BEST individually might be cheaper).  That means Atari was using Rockwell at the end of 400/800 production as only later models had the 6502C on the processor board.  All lot numbers were 83xx.  

 

I have one Synertek (-03) made in Korea and one made by MOS.  There is a someone on eBay selling Synertek 6502C SALLYs with a 8311 lot from Singapore.  Auction states they are NOS.   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224156903743

 

With so many Rockwell examples out there, I have to believe the mass majority are just fine.  I have no idea what the makeup is, but if 45% of the SALLYs are Rockwell, then it follows that 45% of the failures would be Rockwell.

[BillC]

1 hour ago, ACML said:

All lot numbers were 83xx.  

83xx is not a lot number, it's a yyww date code which indicates they were manufactured in 1983.

[TZJB]

Thanks everyone. I purchased a couple of -35 from Atarifreakz on eBay UK and they seem to work fine. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154277718286?

 

[ACML]

1 hour ago, TZJB said:

Thanks everyone. I purchased a couple of -35 from Atarifreakz on eBay UK and they seem to work fine. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154277718286?

Who makes this version?  Also, the 1980 is interesting.  Did the SALLY 6502C even exist in 1980?  I don't think Atari started using them until the 1200XL and late production 400/800s.  That would be more like 1982.  Has anyone ever seen one of these (-35) SALLYs in a production Atari product?  Does the bottom say what country of origin?

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by ACML

[Rybags]

Wouldn't the 5200 debut be a more plausible theory for first use of Sally (that aligns with 1982 and 1200XL dev)  -  Or were there earlier units that had the normal 6502?

[TZJB]

47 minutes ago, ACML said:

Who makes this version?  Also, the 1980 is interesting.  Did the SALLY 6502C even exist in 1980?  I don't think Atari started using them until the 1200XL and late production 400/800s.  That would be more like 1982.  Has anyone ever seen one of these (-35) SALLYs in a production Atari product?  Does the bottom say what country of origin?

 

 

I just knew you were going to ask that! I will have to find the machines I fixed as I have used them both. Please standby while I search my garage...

Edited March 20, 2023 by TZJB

[BillC]

6 hours ago, ACML said:

Also, the 1980 is interesting.  Did the SALLY 6502C even exist in 1980? 

The text on this 6502C refers to the Copyright date, not when it was manufactured.

Atari could have copyrighted the 6502C modifications in 1980 without manufacturing/selling any until 1982.

[TZJB]

I found one machine I repaired and here comes Sally:-

 

 

It looks a bit suspicious, it may have been re-marked?

[+x=usr(1536)]

6 hours ago, TZJB said:

I found one machine I repaired and here comes Sally:-

It looks a bit suspicious, it may have been re-marked?

Possibly, but doubtful - this is a known SALLY variant.  which machine did this come out of and was it PAL or NTSC?

 

Reason I ask is that I've seen a number of later-manufacture 2600 Juniors and 7800s with similar markings on their ICs.  Obviously the Jr. wouldn't have a SALLY in it, but the markings that say very little about its origins do appear similar to ones I've found on the TIA, RIOT, and 6507.

 

My guess is that it may have come from a UMC plant in mainland China after manufacturing was moved there, but that really is nothing more than a guess.

[TZJB]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Possible, but doubtful - this is a known SALLY variant.  which machine did this come out of and was it PAL or NTSC?

 

Reason I ask is that I've seen a number of later-manufacture 2600 Juniors and 7800s with similar markings on their ICs.  Obviously the Jr. wouldn't have a SALLY in it, but the markings that say very little about its origins do appear similar to ones I've found on the TIA, RIOT, and 6507.

 

My guess is that it may have come from a UMC plant in mainland China after manufacturing was moved there, but that really is nothing more than a guess.

 

It is a processor purchased as a new item from atarifreakz at eBay UK. I purchased 2 and have them in a PAL 800XL and a PAL 320XE, previously a 65XE.