What is wrong with the NES version of MULE

[JagChris]

 

Back in the day I never tried MULE. Few years ago I wanted to give this legendary game a run now that I had an 8 bit again but it had some work needed to be done to it so I shelved it.

Ran across the NES version and grabbed that for $5. Dirt cheap. So I learned to play MULE on the NES. Played it for about a year from beginner and standard then just started into tournament mode.

Fast forward a few years and  I see the upcoming MULE online trailer.

 

So I figured I better brush up on my MULE playing.
 

Now things are reversed. The 8 bit is out and fixed up and the Retron NES is packed away. So I figured I would play it in it's original form. I was little bracing myself thinking the graphics are gonna be rough stick figures but watching it I am surprised how much I liked how they did it.
 

So I played maybe 5 games on beginner level to get back into the flow and refresh. Reading the original instructions which are absolutely beautiful. And I know after just beginners level of playing for 5 games on the original I never want to play the NES version again.
 

Since it bugs me that something should leave a big distaste in my mouth and me not being able to define it. So I'm not saying I don't like it just because. Spent hours going over it in my head to figure it out.
 

Is it rabid fanboyism? Oh I am sure that is mixed in there. Though not as graphically advanced as the NES version my heart swells with pride at how much more beautiful I think the original is.

 

1st thing I noticed gameplay wise is on the NES I can catch the mountain wampus all day. Every round nearly. Playing the Atari version I can see now I'll probably be lucky to be able to catch him 1 out of 10 games.
 

Another thing that occurred to me is I spent, because the NES instructions said they will do this, a year trying to get during auctions the computer players to haggle with me. To bargain with them to coax them into better deals for me etc. I never had
any luck. They never haggled with me. Just lifeless.
 

One of the first things I noticed happening is the Atari computer opponent begin haggling during auctions. I could coax them et cetera they showed personality,  character.
 

These things can't be just what is putting such a dist taste in my mouth for the NES version but maybe they are. But there seems to be other things wrong with the map screens as far as it's character and personality, the way it plays in the NES version.  If I put my finger on it better ill try to hop back on here and add it to it.

 

End of rant. For now.

[sl0re]

I remember loving the auctions and haggling on the atari. 

[Rybags]

This online one looks promising.  Though it's a bit annoying that they seem to have used the C64 river graphics.

 

Can't say I've seen the NES MULE other than the quick look just then on YT.

Seems like another game (Spelunker being a big example) of massive departure from the spirit of the original.

For me the Atari versions of both are the original and best, regardless of so-called graphical or sound improvements in future.

 

But we're not unique here - Impossible Mission ports to other systems were inferior in almost every case, for me the SMS version was OK because they went with a different look and set of mechanics but it still worked.

[JagChris]

It says you can play with paddles. Has anyone played MULE with paddle controllers? How does that work?

[+David_P]

With paddles you still require at least one joystick.

 

For the auctions and land grant, people use their own controller.  For outfitting MULEs, hunting the Wampus etc, the joystick gets passed around.

 

So, on an XE/XL, one joystick and a pair of paddles lets you have three players (plus one computer).

[JagChris]

17 hours ago, Rybags said:

This online one looks promising.  Though it's a bit annoying that they seem to have used the C64 river graphics.

 

Yeah I hope he's not winging it without sources and it ends up like the NES version. But he seems to love the game.(I'm assuming it's one guy) So any oversight he will probably fix. 

 

Its licensed by Ozark Softworks. Though that seems to just be Dan Buntens son and daughter. I don't know what happened to Bill Bunten or the other two.

Edited April 30, 2023 by JagChris

[Zolaerla]

I did an entire video on M.U.L.E. a few years ago, and the NES version was definitely one of the disappointing versions I played. Here's the part of my take on it:

 

 

 

The MS-DOS version really takes the cake for the worst port, though, cause MAN! What they did to the game on that system is borderline criminal with such a great game.

 

EDIT: For people who would rather read what I say about it (no visuals of course), here is the text from my script for the NES version:

In 1990, Ozark Softscape released an NES version of the game. It may look a little better to some people, but I do not care about the aesthetic of it. For the most part, the core elements of the game remain the same. You still make M.U.L.E.s, place plots, and so on. But so many things look different, it's a bit distracting to someone who's played the original so much. Plots of land don't have border colors making it a bit harder to tell who owns what plots, the "points" racked up for how much you have produced go in strange places, and there is no longer a designator for how good a M.U.L.E. is at doing the job required for the plot.

Catching the Wampus is far easier. Once it started "blinking", it was easy to catch every time. But all it does is give you some text about it instead of the full screen switch in the original version. You can also catch it several times without problems.

 

The store is way different. There is no longer a zoom in/out effect going into and out of it. It is just a bunch of metal doors and very dull menus with really awful sound effects. It takes a lot longer to get around in this store, and there is no advantage to coming at it from above or below now. You can't leave it out the bottom, you have to walk all the way to the left or right edge. Buying a M.U.L.E. requires walking into the M.U.L.E. Corral door, then choosing to buy a M.U.L.E. from a menu, which makes a [*insert WAH WAH sound*] sound, like something bad just happened. Outfitting one makes a generic chimey sound.

 

Which leads to the biggest problem I had with this version: the sound. Picking a race now has a goofy voice: "Welcome green spheroid". It will say this every time your turn starts, well, without the "Welcome". This is the only quote/unquote improvement in the sound, though it is rather out of place. The sound of the ship landing and taking off are reused for the store doors opening and closing, the sound for outfitting a M.U.L.E. is reused whenever an auction starts.

 

However, the complete lack of sound through most of the game is just sad. Land claims, the entirity of the AI taking its turn, and auctions other than the starting chime are all done in complete silence. Positive and negative events are also silent. When you are taking your turn, the only sounds are from interacting with the store, and the wampus. This lack of sound makes the game feel hollow and incomplete.

 

The theme song in this version sounds very... Nintendo-y, which the creators possibly couldn't get around, but it is no longer very unique sounding.

All and all, I really didn't care for the NES version, but it is at least playable and follows the same rules as the original game, whereas the PC version is almost impossible to play.

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Zolaerla

[JagChris]

6 hours ago, David_P said:

With paddles you still require at least one joystick.

 

For the auctions and land grant, people use their own controller.  For outfitting MULEs, hunting the Wampus etc, the joystick gets passed around.

 

So, on an XE/XL, one joystick and a pair of paddles lets you have three players (plus one computer).

Thank you! Was dying of curiosity so I tried this with a friend tonight. I used the paddle. It works just as you say.

 

Notices: Far easier to select the different characters at beginning of game with the paddle.(joystick select kinda wonky I think)

 

Far harder to precisely control bidding with the paddle.

 

Paddle were just cleaned recently to remove jitter. If others have had better bidding experiences with the paddles I may still have some jitter.

Edited April 30, 2023 by JagChris

[JagChris]

1 hour ago, Zolaerla said:

I did an entire video on M.U.L.E. a few years ago, and the NES version was definitely one of the disappointing versions I played. Here's the part of my take on it:

 

 

 Thanks. Will watch later.

 

Does anyone know off hand what happened to other 3 original members of Ozark Softscape?.(Not Dan)

[Zolaerla]

1 hour ago, JagChris said:

 Thanks. Will watch later.

 

Does anyone know off hand what happened to other 3 original members of Ozark Softscape?.(Not Dan)

 

5 members (Roy Glover isn't credited, but made the music to the game). Also in my video. From the script for easy reference:

 

Dani Bunten

Dan Bunten, credited with being the creator of the game, had sex-reassignment surgery in 1992 and has since been known as Danielle Bunten Berry, or Dani for short. This has lead to a bit of confusion on my part, since when I found out in 1998 that Dani had died of lung cancer and was considered one of the lead women in computer gaming in the 80s including M.U.L.E., I was confused because I could not remember her name from any games, let alone M.U.L.E.. Woman programmers would stand out because there were so few of them. So many programmers were named Bill or Dan that they did not stand out. It wasn't until researching for this video I found out why there was this disconnect.

 

Dani created many great computer games back in the day, in particular "M.U.L.E. (1983)" and "The Seven Cities of Gold (1984)" which have always stood out in my mind as two of the most original games ever created. Other games she created include "Cartels and Cutthroats (1981)", "Robot Rascals (1986)" which was one of the first multiplayer-only games, "Modem Wars (1988)" which was one of the first modem-based games, and "Global Conquest (1992)".

 

Bill Bunten

I know very little about Bill Bunten, not even what his role was in making the game, and I cannot find anything about him. Searching for Bill Bunten always comes up with a Mayor Bill Bunten from Kansas that would have been in his 50s when M.U.L.E. came out, or more articles about Dani Bunten. His strategy guide in the manual makes him sound like a bit of a trickster.

 

That's about the only hint at who he was I can find, other than one article mentioning he was Dani's brother and that the woman on the inside of the M.U.L.E. package was apparently their sister.

 

Jim Rushing

Jim Rushing seems to have been the lead programmer for the game. After Ozark broke up, Jim Rushing was hired at Electronic Arts. He went on to mostly produce games, almost exclusively sports games. As best as I can tell, Jim Rushing still works there and is the largest pusher of Agile there. He is also a horsemanship instructor for Stanford University.

 

Alan Watson

Alan Watson specialized on the interface and graphics code. Again, I had a lot of trouble finding much of anything about Alan. There are many other people with his name or similar names.

 

I did find a podcast with an interview with Alan from 2015. The link is included. This mostly just talks about his thoughts on the games they made and how they created them. During the interview, he mentions that he works on electronics and making customizations for planes for very wealthy clients.

 

Roy Glover

Roy Glover, who doesn't even show up in the credits for the Atari 8bit version, made the catchy music that came with it. He also did the music for "Seven Cities of Gold (1984)" as well. Aside from that, I can't find anything out about him, what else he has done, or whether or not he's even still alive.

 

 

Loads of links, if interested:

http://www.carpeludum.com/world-of-m-u-l-e/
http://www.ozarksoftscape.com/the-game-collection.html - Memoir by Dani Bunten talking about all of her games
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/M.U.L.E. - Strategy Guide
http://www.planetmule.com/ - An online MULE game client
http://www.mulereturns.com/ - Phone remake
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/182619/mule-board-game - MULE board game
https://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-23-the-atari-8-bit-podcast-alan-watson-ozark - Podcast with Alan Watson
https://offworldtradingcompany.gamepedia.com/MULE - Reference to MULE in Offworld Trading Company
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3008912/software-games/this-old-tech-theres-nothing-like-mule-on-an-atari-800-to-bring-a-family-together.html

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Zolaerla

[danwinslow]

I never played this game, at all, on any platform. Sounds like maybe I should try it.

[sl0re]

13 hours ago, danwinslow said:

I never played this game, at all, on any platform. Sounds like maybe I should try it.

Its worth reading the manual too. It tries to teach some basic econ so you get certain production advantages if you do things certain ways. You might not be able to win if you dont know them. 

[zzip]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:22 PM, JagChris said:

It says you can play with paddles. Has anyone played MULE with paddle controllers? How does that work?

Used to play 3 player MULE on my 800XL that way.   Basically the paddles work during auction phases by turning up and down the prices,  but otherwise you pass the joystick to the person whose turn it is.

[zzip]

11 hours ago, sl0re said:

Its worth reading the manual too. It tries to teach some basic econ so you get certain production advantages if you do things certain ways. You might not be able to win if you dont know them. 

I recall reading things in the manual that no longer seem to be in the online version of the manual.   Namely I thought the manual advised you against selling in the final round as prices would go higher after.   I don't see that advice in there now,  but the computer plays this way.   But if the price of crystite is random, couldn't it be worth selling the final round if the price is high enough, since it could drop?   Also if one person sells during the final round, wouldn't that wreck the prices for everyone?

[Rybags]

I think Crystite might have been the only one not affected by supply/demand.

I also seem to remember you could get spoilage on either or both it and smithore if you kept too much.

[Zolaerla]

4 hours ago, zzip said:

I recall reading things in the manual that no longer seem to be in the online version of the manual.   Namely I thought the manual advised you against selling in the final round as prices would go higher after.   I don't see that advice in there now,  but the computer plays this way.   But if the price of crystite is random, couldn't it be worth selling the final round if the price is high enough, since it could drop?   Also if one person sells during the final round, wouldn't that wreck the prices for everyone?

 

There is no value in selling the final round as the points you get for goods are the same as the points you get for the money you get from selling those goods to the store. I don't even know why the game has a final round of auctions, because nobody ever does anything during it.

 

[kiwilove]

Another Bunten game is Cytron Masters, this is about the only Bunten game I could get into playing and enjoying.

 

Harvey

[zzip]

1 hour ago, Zolaerla said:

 

There is no value in selling the final round as the points you get for goods are the same as the points you get for the money you get from selling those goods to the store. I don't even know why the game has a final round of auctions, because nobody ever does anything during it.

 

So there's no effect at all, and you'll have the same score if you sell everything in the final round as you would if you sell nothing?

 

As I said,  I do remember reading in the manual - or maybe it was a strategy guide that if nobody sells the prices will go higher and your score will be higher.   But I suppose that could be wrong

[Zolaerla]

14 minutes ago, zzip said:

So there's no effect at all, and you'll have the same score if you sell everything in the final round as you would if you sell nothing?

 

As I said,  I do remember reading in the manual - or maybe it was a strategy guide that if nobody sells the prices will go higher and your score will be higher.   But I suppose that could be wrong

 

I never saw a strategy guide, but in my testing, selling everything or keeping everything resulted in the same score at the end. So far as I could tell, prices don't randomize until the next auction, which makes sense since buying all M.U.L.E.s or some events like Fire in Store can cause thing's prices to change (not crystite [or DEANSITE, haha] of course, it's always random).

[JagChris]

12 hours ago, zzip said:

So there's no effect at all, and you'll have the same score if you sell everything in the final round as you would if you sell nothing?

 

As I said,  I do remember reading in the manual - or maybe it was a strategy guide that if nobody sells the prices will go higher and your score will be higher.   But I suppose that could be wrong

I dunno about that. My friend was significantly ahead of everyone at last round and so I told them to sell and make even more money. That caused them to lose the lead.

[Goochman]

You dont dump on the last round - you will score lower unless Crystite is $1000 a unit

[zzip]

18 hours ago, Zolaerla said:

I never saw a strategy guide, but in my testing, selling everything or keeping everything resulted in the same score at the end. So far as I could tell, prices don't randomize until the next auction, which makes sense since buying all M.U.L.E.s or some events like Fire in Store can cause thing's prices to change (not crystite [or DEANSITE, haha] of course, it's always random).

 

5 hours ago, JagChris said:

I dunno about that. My friend was significantly ahead of everyone at last round and so I told them to sell and make even more money. That caused them to lose the lead.

 

1 hour ago, Goochman said:

You dont dump on the last round - you will score lower unless Crystite is $1000 a unit

 

So no consensus on this one?   I'll see if I can come up with a test and report back the results here.

[Rybags]

Save states could help there... but if some random element comes into play late on it could make proving any theories hard.

[zzip]

10 minutes ago, Rybags said:

Save states could help there... but if some random element comes into play late on it could make proving any theories hard.

I'm thinking of playing as two players,  track what each owns round 11 and their value.   Then round 12 one sells and the other does not,  and see if their final value adds up, or if one player seems to have a mysterious bonus or penalty.

[+David_P]

Selling to the store, in theory, depresses market prices (assuming that the market then holds more than is needed for the colony).