Ghostbusters - Development Diary

[+OLD CS1]

10 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

I might do a playing stream tonight.  I am not very good at the game, so it will be played very poorly.

Nope.  Unexpected family tonight.

[TheMole]

Thanks for the kind words and exhaustive feedback!

11 hours ago, wongojack said:

Some notes I had:

 

Voice

• I think I'd work on the opening Ghostbusters.  Any younglings who come along may not understand how vocalizations sounded bitd.  If there is any way to improve that first vocalization it could be worth it.
• In other places the vocalizations seemed fine.  The choice to use what sounded like the "chorus" for Ghostbusters was a surprise, but I liked it.  More variety of vocalizations would of course be better if possible.

I get what you're saying, but it does sound quite a bit 'smoother' on real hardware vs. emulators here on my computer. I should record a clip once I'm back in Belgium and have access to my TI. Either way, it would be challenging to improve the sound beyond what we have now.

 

Purchase Screen

• Items do not go to the traditional place on the car in purchase screen

Indeed, the C64 version puts the items "on" the car, and they are visible during the driving sections. Unfortunately, due to sprite limitations, I couldn't pull that off on the TI. So I decided the follow what the MSX version does (which uses the same VDP chip, so has the same limitations ).

 

Driving

• Sometimes the ghost vacuum animation didn't play, but the ghost disappears anyway -> that's a bug, thanks!
• Not able to vacuum a ghost as the car was forced to park -> I think this is also what other versions do, I remember keeping the car on the left hand side of the screen on the C64 version to maximize my chances of vacuuming all ghosts.
• Make sure that whenever the player vacuums a ghost, it disappears from the map -> it should, but might be related to the bug above?

 

Map

• To keep feature parity, enable pressing space to get info about men, packs, traps, $$ -> that should work. Maybe you had some other input issues (like you mentioned below)?
• Mayor seems to be spelled wrong in the text about the marshmallow man -> Oops! Thanks, will be fixed!
• When playing with the compact, I couldn't get the 'B' key to deploy bait, so the game was unwinnable, and I had to abandon.  I'm sure I bought the bait, so not sure what the problem was. -> very strange, the car choice doesn't impact any game logic on the map screen, so it shouldn't matter... 😕. I'll look into it!

Ghostbusting Screen

• To keep feature parity, enable the ghostbuster carrying the trap to change the direction they are facing -> while the man carrying the trap can't change the direction they are facing while carrying the trap (pattern limitations), they can still change the direction they are facing after they've dropped the trap. I'm not sure I understand the gameplay implications, can you elaborate? 
  • There are different ghost catching strategies to the left and right that might be harder to pull off
• Couldn't cross the streams when both gbusters facing the same direction -> Indeed, that's by design, I personally prefer it that way. But I can change it if people disagree!
• I'd like to see an update to total $$ upon capture -> Fair request, let me see what I can do

Input

• I had a couple input problems that I think were because of JS99'er.  Once, the input on the map screen just quit responding.  I had to stop playing
• I also couldn't enter my name to play again after finishing the game.  I think I needed to press fire because I played with it and got it to work somehow.
• It would be nice to have a way to start a new game right from the endgame screen.  "Press C to continue with a new game." -> If you press fire after the end screen, you should be taken back to the intro screen. Did it not?

Wishlist

• After playing so many versions, I wish there was some kind of "arcade" mode I could play.  Maybe an endless mode where you can travel instantly to each building.  It gets faster and faster, and you continue until you miss 3 ghosts?  Nice chance to include Winston Z.
• I'd also like to see a general difficulty option that could control the speed of the energy increasing as well as maybe the speed of the ghosts.

Yeah, if you end up playing the game a lot (like you, or like I did during testing), some of the limitations of the original gameplay become obvious. I wanted to stay fairly close to the original in terms of gameplay, but perhaps an "ultimate" version with all kinds of upgrades would be cool some time down the road.

CLARK JON - 23555400 was my end game account info if anyone else wants to use it

 

 

[+wongojack]

8 hours ago, TheMole said:

Thanks for the kind words and exhaustive feedback!

 

 

 

I think this is also what other versions do

 

My observation is that all versions prevent an un-vacuumable ghost from appearing.  At least it is very, very rare.  So, there is some logic to determine when to cause the ghost to appear.  In your version, I was consistently unable to capture the ghost closest to the destination.  I also noticed that if I did catch that last ghost (sometimes during the parking animation) he would still be on the map afterward. 

 

I'm not sure I understand the gameplay implications, can you elaborate?

 

I've seen where players try to force the ghost to the extreme edge of the screen.  You can do this easier on other versions.  Also, the strategy involves pointing both Ghostbuters in the same direction which means someone playing this strategy is limited from having the GBs switch places by crossing the streams (while facing the same direction).

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond to the feedback.  I just want to re-iterate that this version of Activision's Ghostbusters is amazing and an absolute treasure to have on the TI.  Excellent work.

[Zoyous]

Regarding the Necker cube illusion in the city map that many people experience, it can be quite a persistent illusion even when one consciously knows the intended interpretation. In this case, if you don't mind departing from the original artwork slightly, I suggest that it could be mitigated somewhat by removing the top row and right column of sidewalk squares on each city block, as shown in this mockup:

 

 

[+wongojack]

Ok, @TheMole I've now played the MSX version, and I can see the foundations of the TI version in there.  Very nice job with improvements etc.  I especially like the look of the actual ghostbusters and the improvements to that final scene. Also, the choice to put "slimer" on the map screen is a good one IMO.  I like seeing him there and when you catch ghosts with the car.

 

Another update - I played gbustc.bin in Classic99 and the space bar worked to display status info.  I was also able to drop bait with the compact car by pressing 'B.'

[+OLD CS1]

Played a game last night.  I am frustrated still by the driving around the city being very finicky about making turns.  The worst, though, is watching a roamer come onto screen as I am parking and there is nothing I can do to get it!  I imagine it would be like pulling up to a job and having to watch one float down the street.  I can actually play out the scene in my head and it gives me an exasperated giggle

 

The worst part, and I think I need to go back to the manual, is that blasted marshmallow man just keep jumping on buildings.  Jerk.

 

Zuul won.  I believe the score now is 1,055 to 0, Zuul over me.

 

https://rumble.com/v5amp65-new-ghostbusters-for-ti-994a-played-poorly.html

[+wongojack]

1 hour ago, OLD CS1 said:

Played a game last night.  I am frustrated still by the driving around the city being very finicky about making turns.  The worst, though, is watching a roamer come onto screen as I am parking and there is nothing I can do to get it!  I imagine it would be like pulling up to a job and having to watch one float down the street.  I can actually play out the scene in my head and it gives me an exasperated giggle

 

The worst part, and I think I need to go back to the manual, is that blasted marshmallow man just keep jumping on buildings.  Jerk.

 

Zuul won.  I believe the score now is 1,055 to 0, Zuul over me.

 

https://rumble.com/v5amp65-new-ghostbusters-for-ti-994a-played-poorly.html

I made some comments above about "parking ghost," as he doesn't do that in other versions.

Always buy bait.  Press 'B' when you see "Marshmallow Alert" and you will stop him from crushing buildings.

[+OLD CS1]

4 minutes ago, wongojack said:

Always buy bait.  Press 'B' when you see "Marshmallow Alert" and you will stop him from crushing buildings.

I am apparently just not hitting "B" at the right time.  I remember being successful in the C64 version.  Which reminds me, I think you are supposed to get more than one drop out of the bait you buy.  Maybe three?

[+wongojack]

39 minutes ago, OLD CS1 said:

I am apparently just not hitting "B" at the right time.  I remember being successful in the C64 version.  Which reminds me, I think you are supposed to get more than one drop out of the bait you buy.  Maybe three?

Yes, it is more than 1, but I think it varies between 3 to 5 from version to version.  The 2600 version seems to be unlimited.

 

You can drop bait before Stay Puft comes out to test.  I did that and saw a little pile of bait sitting there.  The ghosts should move toward it as well.

 

I did have trouble dropping bait in at least one of the emulated games I played, so maybe it is emulator related?

[+OLD CS1]

2 hours ago, wongojack said:

I did have trouble dropping bait in at least one of the emulated games I played, so maybe it is emulator related?

I am playing on real hardware.  I can do more testing later this week.

[TheMole]

Assuming you bought the bait, you can use it 5 times when you start the game, and you should be able to reliably drop it using B, haven't seen any issues with that. You can press B at any time when you're on the map screen and you should see a small blue 'heap' of something appear next to the GB logo on the street. I'm thinking you might have ran out early by using all your bait at once or something... I know some players have a tendency to 'spam' the B button to drop bait, and while there is some debounce logic in place, it will drop multiple bits of bait eventually.

 

None of the versions I played showed you your amount of bait left, which can be a bit frustrating. Maybe I should add a feature for that. Or add an 'out of bait' message or something.

 

The marshmallow man also appears roughly 3-5 times throughout the game, with 5 appearances being quite common. So waisting bait only once can already lead to an indefensible situation.

[TheMole]

11 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

The worst, though, is watching a roamer come onto screen as I am parking and there is nothing I can do to get it!  I imagine it would be like pulling up to a job and having to watch one float down the street.  I can actually play out the scene in my head and it gives me an exasperated giggle

 

It's worth knowing that the appearance of the roamers during the driving section is not random, but depends on when you touched them on the map. As you're driving around laying dots, you're increasing a counter that determines the distance you will be driving. Every dot you lay adds 'x' distance, but if you retrace your steps and drive over preexisting dots, no distance gets added. The roamers appear at the distance that was determined by the number of dots that were on the screen when you touched them. So, if you toch a roamer a few dots before heading into a building, it will appear all the way at the end of a driving section and you might not be able to catch it. In most situations that should be fine though, since on your next return to the map, it should be really close to where you are. Only when you touch a ghost and spend the remainder of your time on the map only retracing your steps you might see it all the way at the end and be quite far from it when returning to the map screen.

 

Hope that helps!

[+OLD CS1]

19 minutes ago, TheMole said:

Hope that helps!

It does, but it is something about which I already knew.  What I have not yet figured out is the relationship to distance and time in your rendition.  It seems to go much more quickly than the C64 version (which is not a bad thing, over all, since the C64 version can get rather tedious with long drives.)  I think the biggest difference between the two (TI and C64) is that on the latter you can vacuum from anywhere on the screen, not just by touching the roamers.  I have no qualms with that.  I think your roamer interaction adds a uniqueness.

[+OLD CS1]

50 minutes ago, TheMole said:

blue 'heap' of something

Poop.  It looks like a big steaming pile of blue poop.  Or whatever this is.

[+wongojack]

2 hours ago, TheMole said:

Assuming you bought the bait, you can use it 5 times when you start the game, and you should be able to reliably drop it using B, haven't seen any issues with that. You can press B at any time when you're on the map screen and you should see a small blue 'heap' of something appear next to the GB logo on the street. I'm thinking you might have ran out early by using all your bait at once or something... I know some players have a tendency to 'spam' the B button to drop bait, and while there is some debounce logic in place, it will drop multiple bits of bait eventually.

 

None of the versions I played showed you your amount of bait left, which can be a bit frustrating. Maybe I should add a feature for that. Or add an 'out of bait' message or something.

 

The marshmallow man also appears roughly 3-5 times throughout the game, with 5 appearances being quite common. So waisting bait only once can already lead to an indefensible situation.

Wow - I have never (in any version) had to stop the Marshmallow Man even 4 times let alone 5.  We must have a very different play style.

[TheMole]

22 hours ago, wongojack said:

Wow - I have never (in any version) had to stop the Marshmallow Man even 4 times let alone 5.  We must have a very different play style.

I'll take another look at the algorithm, I playtested the C64 version quite a bit and tried to align with that as much as possible, but without an explanation of the underlying algorithms it's hard to be 100% accurate. I might be wrong on this one, because if the Marshmallow Man comes by 5 times, that means you would be able to win the game without catching a single ghost by just sitting there on the map with your finger hovering over the B button and winning 5 awards (=$10000), which never felt right to me.

 

In your opinion, what would be a reasonable amount of marshmallow man encounters?

[+OLD CS1]

25 minutes ago, TheMole said:

In your opinion, what would be a reasonable amount of marshmallow man encounters?

There has to be something to when he appears.  I have played full games in the past without a single appearance, sometimes he only comes once or twice.  Maybe it is somehow related to score.

[+wongojack]

1 hour ago, TheMole said:

I'll take another look at the algorithm, I playtested the C64 version quite a bit and tried to align with that as much as possible, but without an explanation of the underlying algorithms it's hard to be 100% accurate. I might be wrong on this one, because if the Marshmallow Man comes by 5 times, that means you would be able to win the game without catching a single ghost by just sitting there on the map with your finger hovering over the B button and winning 5 awards (=$10000), which never felt right to me.

 

In your opinion, what would be a reasonable amount of marshmallow man encounters?

You are already thinking about it more scientifically than me.  I just meant that I can't say I've ever seen him more than 3 times in a single game.  I'm sure the code has the answer, but in my observations, you see him only between 6000 and 9000 PKE.  It is a narrow window for him to appear and I'm not sure that just waiting for him to appear without travelling to a building even works.

 

I will try and see if I can "points press" the Marshmallow Man in an upcoming game and report back what I find.  I have access to like . . . all the versions.  The only one I haven't played is the Amstrad.

 

Edit - got an Amstrad emulator running and now I think I've played every commercially released version plus TI and Inty.

[TheMole]

Thanks, I appreciate the insights, I know from the start that the hardest part was going to be figuring out all the underlying algorithms. Even the slightest changes to how things work can completely break the balance of the game...

 

[+mksmith]

Hi! I've really enjoyed this conversion since it popped up in my feed one day so I've been following along since - thanks everyone!  I don't have or play TI stuff but your version appears to be really well done and inspiring for other platforms!

 

Anyway with some recent discussions about the algorithms within the game - maybe this might help?

https://github.com/SingleCopy/C64-Ghostbusters

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Ghostbusters (some interesting tips)

 

 

[+OLD CS1]

https://www.perifractic.com/retrogaming/takeout-shop/ghostbusters-password-generator/

[+wongojack]

On 8/14/2024 at 9:20 AM, TheMole said:

Thanks, I appreciate the insights, I know from the start that the hardest part was going to be figuring out all the underlying algorithms. Even the slightest changes to how things work can completely break the balance of the game...

 

Ok, I played around a bit more today with 3 versions of the game.  I was specifically trying to see the conditions where the Marshmallow Man arrives and attempts to crush buildings.

 

Apple II - Besides sound and graphics, the A2 version is actually really solid.  The gameplay is quite good, the stages feel smooth, and the timing of when the buildings flash red doesn't ever keep the player waiting too long.  As I tested the gameplay, I found that I could encounter the Marshmallow Man 4 times pretty easily.  Once the PKE level reaches 5000, he will usually appear quickly.  After that, he seems to appear around once every 1000 PKE units.  So, he came back between 6k and 7k and then again between 7k and 8k and again between 8k and 9k.  I was just sitting in mostly one spot waiting for him to appear, so the PKE level was increasing very quickly.  Once the level hit 9k, it was going so fast that it got all the way to 9999 without the Marshmallow man appearing again.  It is possible that you could play the game in such a way to maximize the time you have from 9k to 10k, but I think you'd really have to work to keep the various elements that raise the PKE level slow enough for him to appear again.  NOTE ABOUT BAIT - This version puts a message on the screen if you have used up all your bait.  It says something like "No Bait Remaining" if the player pushes B a 6th time or just leaves their finger on the key too long.  There's also a short "beep" that sounds if the game detects a keypress.

 

 

Amstrad CPC - This was my first time seriously playing the Amstrad version, and I wasn't impressed.  Missing a ghost does not raise the PKE level 300pts in this version and there are long stretches where the player is just sitting and waiting for something to happen.  It is a really slow pace.  In contrast to the Apple 2, the graphics and sound on this version are nicely presented with plenty of color and full soundtrack and sounds.  However, the gameplay kind of jumps and jerks in the vehicle stage and there is considerable flicker on the ghost catching screen.  This is also the only version where the ghost seemed to be able to "flicker" his way through your proton beam and escape capture.  Once I got the PKE level up to 5000, the Marshmallow Man did appear.  The animation for stopping him was sooo slow that I almost thought the game had crashed or something.  Well, he never appeared again.  I waited in one spot, went to various buildings.  I tried to milk the clock, but he never came back.

 

 

 

MSX - The closest version to the TI99 is pretty solid.  The game plays nice and fast.  There's not too much waiting for buildings to turn red, and the actual ghost catching is pretty challenging.  In this version, the Marshmallow man also appeared soon after the PKE level reached 5000.  As I tried various strategies to coax him out, it seems the game follows the same pattern as the Apple II.  He appears about ever 1000 PKE units.  However, as I was testing, I played a game where I basically just parked in one spot and waited.  This strategy didn't coax the Marshmallow Man to appear, instead the keymaster and gatekeeper went to Zuul and ended the game around 7,700 PKE.  I guess there's some logic in the game to make this happen if the player isn't moving around and catching ghosts?  If I mixed in a few trips to buildings, I could still catch the Marshmallow Man 4 times, but key and gate still entered Zuul a little before 10k in this version.

 

[+OLD CS1]

Just played a quick game.  A couple of things I noticed:

• I believe in the C64 version, you can drop your trap higher or lower on the screen (@wongojack can you confirm?)
• The instructions note the trap moves slower coming down than going up.  It moves the same speed up and down on the TI.
• I sussed out when to use the bait.  Having to hit B is difficult when playing with the joystick and sitting back from the console.  However, I only got three uses of it.  Perhaps some logic to only allow a single drop at a time is in order.

[TheMole]

39 minutes ago, wongojack said:

As I tested the gameplay, I found that I could encounter the Marshmallow Man 4 times pretty easily.  Once the PKE level reaches 5000, he will usually appear quickly.  After that, he seems to appear around once every 1000 PKE units.  So, he came back between 6k and 7k and then again between 7k and 8k and again between 8k and 9k.  I was just sitting in mostly one spot waiting for him to appear, so the PKE level was increasing very quickly.  Once the level hit 9k, it was going so fast that it got all the way to 9999 without the Marshmallow man appearing again.

 

Great insights! What you're describing here for the Apple ][ is exactly how the TI version works. Hence my statement that he usually appears 4-5 times. I predetermine the times at which the Marshmallow game appears at the start of the game though. I determine 5 random numbers: one between 5000-6024, 6000-7024, 7000-8024, 8000-9024 and 9000-10024. If you're on the map when the PK level reaches one of these numbers, mr. Stay Puft will appear. If you return to the map, it checks to see if a marshmallow attack should have happened during the time you were away and will immediately trigger his appearance if needed. I did similar testing to you, and that seemed to match the way most versions do it. If two appearances would've occured while you were away, it disregards the oldest one, making for one less appearance in total. If the 5th number is higher than 9999, the last appearance will not trigger. Hence my comment abouty 4-5 times. It can definitely be less, but it is at most 5.

 

I could increase the 9000-1024 value to say 9500-10500 to decrease the likelyness of him appearing that 5th time, which would bring it even more in-line with other version based on what you've seen. I think that might be a good idea. Also, I wasn't aware there were versions that brought you to Zuul before the PK level hits 9999. They might be doing that to avoid players winning the game by only catching marshmallow men (if you only buy a cheap car, the bait and a single trap, you can easily win the game by just catching marshmallow men and never going to a building).

[+OLD CS1]

9 minutes ago, TheMole said:

if you only buy a cheap car, the bait and a single trap, you can easily win the game by just catching marshmallow men and never going to a building

Meanwhile, NYC suffers, the walls of the 53rd precinct continue to bleed, and Lenny faces a more difficult re-election campaign for mayor.