What do you recommend for cheap and reliable Atari 5200 controller extension cables?

[RockLobster]

Can I use NeoGeo extension cables like these?   If not, why not?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mcbazel-Famicom-Controller-Joystick-Extension-NeoGeo/dp/B07JHZ5WXJ

 

what are cheap options?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Can I use NeoGeo extension cables like these?   If not, why not?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mcbazel-Famicom-Controller-Joystick-Extension-NeoGeo/dp/B07JHZ5WXJ

 

what are cheap options?

Far as I know...yes these should work provided they have 15 wires present in them and I believe they do. If you do buy a set of these, make sure to let us know how they work out for you?

 

There is one slight concern I have in regard to extension cable on the 5200 that I've seen a little of myself. The concern is that the increased cable length could alter the readings just enough from the controller due to slight increases in resistance over the cable that could make some games more difficult to play like Gyruss for example. 

 

[RockLobster]

53 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Far as I know...yes these should work provided they have 15 wires present in them and I believe they do. If you do buy a set of these, make sure to let us know how they work out for you?

That's what I was thinking actually.   Not only is the 5200 controller itself a passive device but so is the connector.   However, I posted here on AtariAge bc the Amazon comments were hit and miss regarding compatibility.   Some say they work great but other say the plugs don't fit.   If I do try them, I will certainly report back here.

 

55 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

There is one slight concern I have in regard to extension cable on the 5200 that I've seen a little of myself. The concern is that the increased cable length could alter the readings just enough from the controller due to slight increases in resistance over the cable that could make some games more difficult to play like Gyruss for example. 

I appreciate the general warning but I'm super curious why you picked a game like Gyruss.   I was just playing that yesterday as a matter of fact and noticed that one controller had problems rotating around all the way even though it worked perfectly find in other games in terms of range and response.   Other controllers were fine in Gyruss but that this particular one.  Why is that?

 

--

 

Your Crossbow user name.... 

 

So I finally found the 7800 version of Crossbow for $10.   I'm starting a new thread on the 7800 forum re: the XE vs SMS gun, accuracy and offset.  I know it's an old topic but the new part comes from comparing it to the MiSTer cores and SNAC adapters.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

2 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

I appreciate the general warning but I'm super curious why you picked a game like Gyruss.   I was just playing that yesterday as a matter of fact and noticed that one controller had problems rotating around all the way even though it worked perfectly find in other games in terms of range and response.   Other controllers were fine in Gyruss but that this particular one.  Why is that?

Gyruss is very particular to the controller readings and doesn't have much leeway in that regard. I use Gyruss and Bounty Bob Strikes back as the two main games to verify that a controller is properly calibrated with the console. Provided the console is also adjusted to factory spec reading. 

 

The controllers use a sets of potentiometers in them for the X and Y readings. Due to variance in the hardware and their analog nature and... 40 years of age. The readings will vary from controller to controller and over time, they can get out of spec enough for some games to be problematic in trying to play them. Also some of the later made 5200 controllers used cheaper pots in them that haven't held up as well over time in providing proper readings for all games.

 

 

[RockLobster]

15 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

... to verify that a controller is properly calibrated with the console. Provided the console is also adjusted to factory spec reading.

 

How does one go about calibrating the controller and/or the console?   I'm new to the 5200.  

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Just now, RockLobster said:

 

How does one go about calibrating the controller and/or the console?   I'm new to the 5200.  

Well there is the factory method that requires use of a controller loopback board that provides static readings. And there is the eyeball/close enough method.

 

The close enough method is to open up the controller so you can see both of the pots. Adjust the top pot to the exact 9 o'clock position and the bottom pot to the exact 6 o'clock position. 

 

Plug in the controller without fully assembling it and pop in Missile Command. Start a game and see if the cursor is in the middle of the screen. If it isn't then you can try and adjust the small trimmer on the console itself to try and help dial it in. 

 

A more accurate method would be to eyeball the pots on the controller to the positions I previously stated. But instead of using Missile Command, use one of the actual diagnostic roms and go to the Pokey Adjust menu. That will provide the controller reading as a set of numbers. Factory spec requires that you adjust the trimmer on the console so that with everything centered on the controller, it should read about "112" on the horz reading +|- 1 

 

I've made a video on the process using one of the loopback boards to do it the most accurate way but also go into details using the eyeball methods I've stated above.

 

Now, since you have 3 others that seem to work well with Gyruss but 1 that does NOT. I wouldn't blame the console so much as that one controller. And again, the pots inside them do wear out and start to provide odd readings to the console as they get older. In cases like this you need to try and carefully remove the potentiometer and clean it and try again. You can also... force the actual teflon arms attached to the pots in the controller so that you move it just a hair further than it would normally allow to try and compensate as well.

 

 

[+sramirez2008]

@-^CrossBow^-the console whisperer. On behalf of the community, thank you for all that you do. 🙂

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Factory spec requires that you adjust the trimmer on the console

Ok looks like I need to google more.   So there are trim settings for each of the 4 controllers internally?

[A Black Falcon]

13 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Can I use NeoGeo extension cables like these?   If not, why not?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mcbazel-Famicom-Controller-Joystick-Extension-NeoGeo/dp/B07JHZ5WXJ

 

what are cheap options?

Atari 5200 and Neo-Geo controllers have very similar connectors, but they are not the same -- Neo Geo connectors have a much deeper pin connector and do not have the three little clips 5200 controllers have that holds them on.  It's a different design.  I have not tried a Neo-Geo extension cable on a 5200 myself, but going by a post in this old thread here it looks like it should work, just with a tight fit:  (it's the post about the Tototek cables.)

 

So yeah it probably will work, I guess, but maybe it'll get kind of stuck in the adapter, and it won't fit correctly given that 5200 controllers' pin connector is about half the depth of a Neo-Geo one.

 

Instead, what I use are PC gameport controller extension cables.  Not the type with screw-in connectors, ones that like that Neo Geo one just plug in.  They are a thing that were made back in the '80s and work perfectly with the 5200, everything fits exactly right.  They even have openings for the three clips so the fit is good.  They may be hard to find though, I don't see any on ebay right now, though I do see one that sold last month, a Woods DB15 Joystick Extension Cable, just like one of mine; it sold for cheap, the issue would be finding one. 

 

Regular two-row DB15 PC cables with screw connections use the same connector as well of course, but they are not a good option at all.  They will probably not fit correctly without modification, if they can be made to work at all -- the housing may be too big to fit in the console, you won't be able to secure it with those screws, it won't have notches in the right places for the clips in the controller plug, and such.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

30 minutes ago, RockLobster said:

Ok looks like I need to google more.   So there are trim settings for each of the 4 controllers internally?

No, there is a single smaller trimmer pot inside the console that essentially adjust the pokey on how it handles the readings from the controller ports. But it is a single adjustment that affects all of the ports. 

 

That's why I stated that if you ONLY have 1 out of 3 controllers giving you issues, then the 5200 isn't to blame. So you likely don't need to mess with the adjustment inside the console and it is all an issue with that controllers pots inside it sending the signals to the 5200.

 

So if it were me, that is the controller that would be designated as the player 3 or player 4 controller. You know, the one you give to your younger sibling when playing 2 player games.

 

[+sramirez2008]

9 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

So if it were me, that is the controller that would be designated as the player 3 or player 4 controller. You know, the one you give to your younger sibling when playing 2 player games.

😂

[RockLobster]

Alright, decided to take a chance on Neo Geo extension cords.  One set from Amazon and another from Aliexpress:

 

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802031479074.html

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JHZ5WXJ

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, A Black Falcon said:

Neo Geo connectors have a much deeper pin connector and do not have the three little clips 5200 controllers have that holds them on.  It's a different design.  I have not tried a Neo-Geo extension cable on a 5200 myself, but going by a post in this old thread here it looks like it should work, just with a tight fit:

I think I'm going to make small notches on the extension cable end to fit in and then we'll see how loose the fittings will be

[RockLobster]

2 hours ago, A Black Falcon said:

nstead, what I use are PC gameport controller extension cables.  Not the type with screw-in connectors, ones that like that Neo Geo one just plug in.  They are a thing that were made back in the '80s and work perfectly with the 5200, everything fits exactly right.  They even have openings for the three clips so the fit is good.

Yeah I only see the ones with the screw ins but not the other variety...

[ledzep]

4 hours ago, A Black Falcon said:

Instead, what I use are PC gameport controller extension cables.  Not the type with screw-in connectors, ones that like that Neo Geo one just plug in.  They are a thing that were made back in the '80s and work perfectly with the 5200, everything fits exactly right.  They even have openings for the three clips so the fit is good.  They may be hard to find though, I don't see any on ebay right now, though I do see one that sold last month, a Woods DB15 Joystick Extension Cable, just like one of mine; it sold for cheap, the issue would be finding one. 

 

You mean something like this?

 

https://store.cwc-group.com/dbmatofejoex.html

 

Out of stock, of course.

[A Black Falcon]

15 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

You mean something like this?

 

https://store.cwc-group.com/dbmatofejoex.html

 

Out of stock, of course.

Yeah, that is exactly the kind of cable I mean.

[RockLobster]

On 7/24/2023 at 8:06 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

If you do buy a set of these, make sure to let us know how they work out for you?

 

The Amazon "LOT 2 Mcbazel 6 Feet SNK AES MVS Famicom Neo Geo Controller Joystick Gamepad Extension Cable" works perfectly without modification!

 

The notches on the 5200 controller somehow are within the tolerance of the receiving end (where you'd plug in the controller).  Simultaneously, the male end (where you plug into the console) of the adapter is a snug enough fit even without notches on it.   However, because the Neo Geo plug being a little bit longer it does stick out about a quarter inch but that's find since it's still snug (not too much, not too loose)

 

Once the cheaper Aliexpress Neo Geo adapter comes in, I'll report on that as well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JHZ5WXJ

[RockLobster]

On 7/24/2023 at 5:07 PM, ledzep said:

You mean something like this?

 

https://store.cwc-group.com/dbmatofejoex.html

 

Out of stock, of course.

Have you ordered from them before?   

 

Even though the amazon prime shipping from the Mcbazel ones worked great, I'm interested in their DB15 Y-Splitter cables which would be great to share between the Retrogameboyz adapter, 5200 trackball and a regular controller.

[ledzep]

9 hours ago, RockLobster said:

Have you ordered from them before?   

 

Even though the amazon prime shipping from the Mcbazel ones worked great, I'm interested in their DB15 Y-Splitter cables which would be great to share between the Retrogameboyz adapter, 5200 trackball and a regular controller.

 

No, never ordered from them.  I did call them (and email them), the woman who answered said they haven't had those extension cables in stock for years, couldn't remember who supplied them, either.  Of course.  If I hated the very concept of those extension cables you can bet that they'd be easily available, like at your local Best Buy or whatever.  So, again, I apologize for applying my interest to something uncommon.  I have to find a way to use this power for good.

 

She did say they had the Y-Splitter cables still, though.  Weird that they'd have the one but not the other.  I would order them now because I may end up deciding to order a few as some sort of consolation prize victory and you know that at that instant, before I can even click on their website again, they'll be out of stock.

[CMR]

On 7/24/2023 at 10:36 AM, -^CrossBow^- said:

Well there is the factory method that requires use of a controller loopback board that provides static readings. And there is the eyeball/close enough method.

 

The close enough method is to open up the controller so you can see both of the pots. Adjust the top pot to the exact 9 o'clock position and the bottom pot to the exact 6 o'clock position. 

 

Plug in the controller without fully assembling it and pop in Missile Command. Start a game and see if the cursor is in the middle of the screen. If it isn't then you can try and adjust the small trimmer on the console itself to try and help dial it in. 

 

A more accurate method would be to eyeball the pots on the controller to the positions I previously stated. But instead of using Missile Command, use one of the actual diagnostic roms and go to the Pokey Adjust menu. That will provide the controller reading as a set of numbers. Factory spec requires that you adjust the trimmer on the console so that with everything centered on the controller, it should read about "112" on the horz reading +|- 1 

 

I've made a video on the process using one of the loopback boards to do it the most accurate way but also go into details using the eyeball methods I've stated above.

 

Now, since you have 3 others that seem to work well with Gyruss but 1 that does NOT. I wouldn't blame the console so much as that one controller. And again, the pots inside them do wear out and start to provide odd readings to the console as they get older. In cases like this you need to try and carefully remove the potentiometer and clean it and try again. You can also... force the actual teflon arms attached to the pots in the controller so that you move it just a hair further than it would normally allow to try and compensate as well.

 

 

Do you know what exact values that board is using for the pot's neutral position?  Should it be exactly half the 640k of the potentiometers?  (320k)?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

6 minutes ago, CMR said:

Do you know what exact values that board is using for the pot's neutral position?  Should it be exactly half the 640k of the potentiometers?  (320k)?

I believe they are actually 500k and I've actually not tried to read them at their halfway marks. But I would assume it to be around 250k. Although that can't be taken as being for sure because the actual pots inside the controllers are not moved their furthest extremes.

[CMR]

Just now, -^CrossBow^- said:

I believe they are actually 500k and I've actually not tried to read them at their halfway marks. But I would assume it to be around 250k. Although that can't be taken as being for sure because the actual pots inside the controllers are not moved their furthest extremes.

Thanks!  I was thinking they weren't exact.  Do you know what the values of the calibration board should be?  I would like to try making my own just so I can check the system itself.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, CMR said:

Thanks!  I was thinking they weren't exact.  Do you know what the values of the calibration board should be?  I would like to try making my own just so I can check the system itself.

The factory reading with the controller loopback board to provide static readings will be 112 +|- 1 on the HORZ reading for port 1 when adjusting the Pokey itself.

 

I just checked the values again on my loopback board. It uses a pair of 250k resistors to simulate static readings from the controller in what I would assume to be centered positions. 

[ledzep]

On 7/25/2023 at 6:57 AM, A Black Falcon said:

Yeah, that is exactly the kind of cable I mean.

 

Well, I emailed Atari Repair Parts (a new company that is making 5200 controller repair parts and kits as mentioned in the "New gold plated 5200 CX-5200 mylar replacements (Not from Best Elect.)" thread -

 

https://atarirepairparts.com/

 

about the possibility of them also making extension cables like those out-of-stock ones I linked to and they emailed me back with this -

 

We are looking at possibly making 5200 controller cables which would make it fairly easy to do extension cables as well. However, these items require molds to be made which can be quite expensive. We have to focus on the products we've made so far to recoup some of those expenses before we can move forward with the cables. But it is definitely on our radar.

 

Thanks for your message and please keep checking back.

 

- Atari Repair Parts

 

so maybe we'll see those extension cables from a new source?  I hope so, it's in our interests that Atari Repair Parts is successful and introduces more repair parts.

Edited July 31, 2023 by ledzep

[BIGHMW]

Here are the ones I use for both my 5200 controllers as well as y keyboard for my XEGS, I got them 2 years ago and they work pretty damn good IMO:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232787206703