speech synthesizer with 32k memory expansion module - both working great separately - together the 32k module is detected by games by then they freeze with garbled sound

[netmosis]

Newbie to TI99/4a. I am not able to get the 32k ram module to function if plugged into the speech module. Also, the ram test util passes if the 32k mod is directly connected, but fails if thru the speech mod. Wondering it anyone has any ideas. Also I am using the external power adapter for the 32k module in both cases. Also, cleaned all connectors multiple times with electronic cleaner spray.

Edited August 3, 2023 by netmosis

[+OLD CS1]

The Speech Synthesizer does not pass through power.  You have to run a jumper wire from the power pin on the console side to the expansion side.  I have done this will all of my SSs.  Otherwise, use a good 5v DC power supply on the 32k expansion.

 

So I understand, you are saying the RAM test fails on the 32k if attached to the Speech Synthesizer and using a 5V power supply with the 32k?  I suppose it is possible the Speech Synthesizer is damaged, more likely to be dirty contacts on the input or output.  Does the Speech Synthesizer actually work?

[+arcadeshopper]

There's a jumper or switch on your 32K that should be set to EXT. When it is powered externally? Is that set that way?

Ready to get out

[netmosis]

Correct OLD CS1, I am using the separate power adapter for the 32k expansion card. Also, I did clean the contacts quite a bit, could still be the issue though. The SS does work, so far only test I've done is in Ext Basic Plus, '100 CALL SAY ("HELLO WORLD")' and other fun phrases

 

Also, yes arcadeshopper, I did switch the jumper on the 32k card to ext, no change. Another local TI99 owner just advised me to check out the continuity on the solder joints on the SS board/reflow as needed, so I'll do that next I guess.

 

On another note, great to be here, looking forward to a lot of fun with the TI, much thanks to you OLD CS1 for introducing my son and I to the TI at VCFSE!

[+OLD CS1]

2 hours ago, netmosis said:

On another note, great to be here, looking forward to a lot of fun with the TI, much thanks to you OLD CS1 for introducing my son and I to the TI at VCFSE!

It was a great time, thank you!  I was hoping you guys would pop up in here, eventually.  I spoke of you in my VCF-SE stream thread.

 

I missed that you had cleaned the contacts.  Yeah, it is very odd, but I suppose sometimes a bum unit makes it out there.  Did you get yours through the Brewing Academy or was that your FG99?  Re-flowing and cleaning up cold solder joints certainly should not hurt anything, but I would also talk to whoever sold it to you and see if they can dispatch a replacement unit.

 

Oh, speaking of the FG99, some of the games in the HOMEBREW directory may be older versions of the games (for instance, I am pretty sure Titanium is out-of-date.)

[+arcadeshopper]

just to be sure, test the 32k without the speech but on ext

 

 

[netmosis]

10 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

It was a great time, thank you!  I was hoping you guys would pop up in here, eventually.  I spoke of you in my VCF-SE stream thread.

 

I missed that you had cleaned the contacts.  Yeah, it is very odd, but I suppose sometimes a bum unit makes it out there.  Did you get yours through the Brewing Academy or was that your FG99?  Re-flowing and cleaning up cold solder joints certainly should not hurt anything, but I would also talk to whoever sold it to you and see if they can dispatch a replacement unit.

 

Oh, speaking of the FG99, some of the games in the HOMEBREW directory may be older versions of the games (for instance, I am pretty sure Titanium is out-of-date.)

Yes, got the FG99 on Brewing academy, works great. I got the SS on ebay, good idea, I messaged the seller. On HOMEBREW dir, good to know, thanks!

[netmosis]

10 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

just to be sure, test the 32k without the speech but on ext

 

 

That works, both with or without the power adapter plugged into the 32k ram unit. So on the 32k ram unit LED, direct w/o SS, I notice it is dim when engaged by a game w/o ext pwr, bright when engaged by a game w/ ext pwr, thru SS the 32k ram unit is dim and fast flicker even w/ ext pwr and frozen video/audio/garbled.

[+arcadeshopper]

21 minutes ago, netmosis said:

That works, both with or without the power adapter plugged into the 32k ram unit. So on the 32k ram unit LED, direct w/o SS, I notice it is dim when engaged by a game w/o ext pwr, bright when engaged by a game w/ ext pwr, thru SS the 32k ram unit is dim and fast flicker even w/ ext pwr and frozen video/audio/garbled.

Yeah sounds like something is up with your SS

 

[+OLD CS1]

Since the 32k works, even without the SS you are at least able to play games like Pinball99 and others which require 32k, right?  That is a good start.  Good luck.  I have never heard of a Speech Synthesizer causing problems like this, but in our realm anything is possible.

 

On my 32k modules, I never noticed a difference in LED brightness between external or internal power.  Generally, the brightness has just been a function of access to the memory space, sort-of like pulse width modulation.  But, I also replaced my LEDs with blue and white ones, because why not.

[+OLD CS1]

5 minutes ago, arcadeshopper said:

Yeah sounds like something is up with your SS

Do you have any in stock?

[+arcadeshopper]

Just now, OLD CS1 said:

Do you have any in stock?

Sure do, I also have the connector to plug the ss in AFTER the 32k.. 

[netmosis]

6 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

Since the 32k works, even without the SS you are at least able to play games like Pinball99 and others which require 32k, right?  That is a good start.  Good luck.  I have never heard of a Speech Synthesizer causing problems like this, but in our realm anything is possible.

 

On my 32k modules, I never noticed a difference in LED brightness between external or internal power.  Generally, the brightness has just been a function of access to the memory space, sort-of like pulse width modulation.  But, I also replaced my LEDs with blue and white ones, because why not.

yes, 32k is working great for Pinball99 and all others that require it. Works to run the Ext Basic's too.

[netmosis]

6 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

Sure do, I also have the connector to plug the ss in AFTER the 32k.. 

arcadeshopper, can you share the direct link to that connector on your site? not sure I'm finding. Just using that connector sounds like a good solution, but the ebay seller of the faulty SS also said I can return so I may just buy a new SS too, thanks

[jrhodes]

8 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

Sure do, I also have the connector to plug the ss in AFTER the 32k.. 

I'm kind of curious about this connector as well.

[HOME AUTOMATION]

3 hours ago, netmosis said:

...but the ebay seller of the faulty SS also said I can return...

I wouldn't be so quick to label the SS, as the culprit! I am of the opinion that the issues may lie between the CONSOLE, and the FG99.

[+OLD CS1]

15 hours ago, HOME AUTOMATION said:

I wouldn't be so quick to label the SS, as the culprit! I am of the opinion that the issues may lie between the CONSOLE, and the FG99.

Something to consider.  I have one FG99 which experiences problems with certain expansions attached.  A troubleshooting chart might shed light on the issue.

 

Console -> FG99 -> 32k: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Unstable

FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Nothing.  WTF.

 

@netmosis I assume you still have the Pinball99 cartridge.  If my list above is accurate, try the SS and 32k with the game cart proper.  That would take the FG99 out of the equation.  When you said you tested with Extended BASIC, was that with a proper cartridge or with the FG99?

[+OLD CS1]

@netmosis Oh, I meant to ask, are you still using the RF modulator or have you gutted it already to make an A/V cable?

[jrhodes]

2 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

Something to consider.  I have one FG99 which experiences problems with certain expansions attached.  A troubleshooting chart might shed light on the issue.

 

Console -> FG99 -> 32k: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Unstable

FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Nothing.  WTF.

 

@netmosis I assume you still have the Pinball99 cartridge.  If my list above is accurate, try the SS and 32k with the game cart proper.  The would take the FG99 out of the equation.  When you said you tested with Extended BASIC, was that with a proper cartridge or with the FG99?

"FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Nothing.  WTF."

There's your problem, no console like in the other 3 setups.

[netmosis]

On 8/4/2023 at 9:53 PM, OLD CS1 said:

Something to consider.  I have one FG99 which experiences problems with certain expansions attached.  A troubleshooting chart might shed light on the issue.

 

Console -> FG99 -> 32k: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Unstable

FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Nothing.  WTF.

 

@netmosis I assume you still have the Pinball99 cartridge.  If my list above is accurate, try the SS and 32k with the game cart proper.  That would take the FG99 out of the equation.  When you said you tested with Extended BASIC, was that with a proper cartridge or with the FG99?

Confirmed, same failure state w/ direct Pinball99 cartridge as with FG99. W/ extended Basic only from FG99. 

[netmosis]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:30 PM, OLD CS1 said:

@netmosis Oh, I meant to ask, are you still using the RF modulator or have you gutted it already to make an A/V cable?

Actually I decided against mod'ing the RF cable, hate to destroy any OEM accessories. I got one off ebay. Incidentally, I realized the sound does not seem to working via the new A/V cable, works good via RF.

[+Lee Stewart]

37 minutes ago, netmosis said:

Actually I decided against mod'ing the RF cable, hate to destroy any OEM accessories. I got one off ebay. Incidentally, I realized the sound does not seem to working via the new A/V cable, works good via RF.

 

Perhaps, the audio is tied to the wrong pin on the 5-pin DIN plug (pin 3 on US NTSC console). 

 

...lee

[Geoff Oltmans]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:53 PM, OLD CS1 said:

Something to consider.  I have one FG99 which experiences problems with certain expansions attached.  A troubleshooting chart might shed light on the issue.

 

Console -> FG99 -> 32k: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS: Works

Console -> FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Unstable

FG99 -> SS -> 32k: Nothing.  WTF.

 

@netmosis I assume you still have the Pinball99 cartridge.  If my list above is accurate, try the SS and 32k with the game cart proper.  That would take the FG99 out of the equation.  When you said you tested with Extended BASIC, was that with a proper cartridge or with the FG99?

I had some similar issues with my FG99... some programs wouldn't work with the SS and/or the PEB plugged in while using the FG99. The one game that I noticed this on specifically was Alpiner... the graphics would be garbled or the game would freeze almost immediately when gameplay started...but there were several others. I had a couple of components I ended up having to replace on my console in addition to this, but the firmware on the FG99 CPLD that came loaded on my FG99 just wouldn't work with some software. Download the FG99 test utilities on the github repo, and try running the GROM test. Mine would consistently fail this test when external expansions were plugged in, but after the CPLD image posted here for v2.2 boards it worked fine (and mine is a silver and black console to boot).

 

I also had some issues with a real Parsec cartridge with the speech synthesizer plugged in that caused some garbled video (but the game would otherwise play), but wouldn't work at all when the PEB was plugged in. I had to change a couple of components in the console to address that. If you can load the CPLD firmware from this thread I'd try that...
 

 

[+OLD CS1]

10 hours ago, netmosis said:

Confirmed, same failure state w/ direct Pinball99 cartridge as with FG99. W/ extended Basic only from FG99. 

I am still leaning on the SS being a problem.  Simplest answer, unless anyone else has any ideas on what could be causing it in the console.  The only failures are the 32k+SS combined, whether the 32k is internally or externally powered.

 

10 hours ago, netmosis said:

Actually I decided against mod'ing the RF cable, hate to destroy any OEM accessories. I got one off ebay. Incidentally, I realized the sound does not seem to working via the new A/V cable, works good via RF.

I understand that feeling.  I agree with @Lee Stewart, it could be a pin-out issue in the cable.  Did you pick up a universal one like what I had at the show?  The colors for those cables do not always match the expected function, and again noting one of them will carry +12V.

[+OLD CS1]

1 minute ago, Geoff Oltmans said:

I had a couple of components I ended up having to replace on my console in addition to this, but the firmware on the FG99 CPLD that came loaded on my FG99 just wouldn't work with some software. Download the FG99 test utilities on the github repo, and try running the GROM test. Mine would consistently fail this test when external expansions were plugged in, but after the CPLD image posted here for v2.2 boards it worked fine (and mine is a silver and black console to boot).

One of my two FG99s, even with the 1.Q firmware, simply does not like some expansions attached, or attached and turned off, &c.  For instance, it hates my PEB on a QI console, but is fine on an original console.  It hates the CC9900 MES turned off, but is fine with it on.  It sometimes just hates, and I deal with it.  I may have to try that GROM test.