Emulation vs hardware and does nostalgia play a factor?

[donjn]

Will it ever end for me?

2019
Purchased a Commodore 1702 monitor. Purchased an Atari 2600 with AV mod. Got myself a harmony cart. Looked good and ran great. Ended up selling it, just didn't play often enough and that bulky CRT took up too much space and the high pitched sound drove my sons nuts. I did keep some original joysticks, paddles and lots of game manuals in hopes that would cure my future cravings.

2020 - 2022
I used some of the money selling my Commodore monitor (waited and eventually someone paid me a crap ton for mine because it was mint) and got with the modern times and it partially helped in getting a better gaming monitor, Steam Deck, Switch, PS5, etc.

Its been great to have a nice setup with these modern systems. I have emulators running great on my Steam Deck. Ive been very happy with Stella. On my PC I even use my Atari Classic VCS joystick and the spinner for paddle games in Stella. Stella feels 100% accurate, key word being feels. I can add scan-lines to reproduce the CRT feeling and lose the large and bulky CRT. I also enjoy being able to choose the game select and start on the joystick itself.

2023
I start having this need to have an Atari hardware. Just the console, whether it works or not, right there, close by. I look into purchasing a non working 2600 just to sit there, under my monitor for show. Weird huh?

I purchased an Atari Flashback 50th (its tiny and looks so cute) and ran it through my HDMI monitor. I was not impressed. The movement felt odd and was a step down even compared to Stella. Returned back to Amazon.

August 10, 2023
Once again here I am. Thinking of purchasing an Atari 2600 and getting a Retrotink to hook up via HDMI. I spend lots of time Googling emulation vs real thing. How can I justify spending a couple hundred dollars when Stella gives me near perfect emulation, scanlines, and extra buttons on a great joystick that has a paddle spinner?

What is this need to have the original hardware that by all means makes no sense? I can see wanting original hardware for systems that have some sort of input lag or with emulators that aren't as accurate but Stella just runs perfect and more importantly I just don't notice lag (and I notice lag on everything).

Conclusion
Now, this has not hit an "unhealthy" status. I go to work, and function normally. I am however, worried, that my nostalgia or need is so strong that eventually I am going to make a mistake money wise. My 19 year old son appreciates that I enjoy older stuff but even he says how good the emulation is, why bother with 45 year old hardware? I did notice that when the Flashback arrived there was this thrill of opening the box and seeing the system, taking it out of the wrapping and hooking it up. It was like Christmas.

How do I get past this?

[zzip]

For me, I just really dislike clutter.  It's hard to relax in a cluttered space.    I gave up retro hardware collecting early on because they take up space, require extra monitors, disks everywhere, and a birds nest of cables...   And thanks to emulation that hardware didn't get used enough to justify its presence, so I ended up selling most of it.

[Flojomojo]

Nostalgia is the only factor for people who want to have it all. Do what makes you happy, stop doing it if it makes you sad. They’re just toys. 

[donjn]

13 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Nostalgia is the only factor for people who want to have it all. Do what makes you happy, stop doing it if it makes you sad. They’re just toys. 

Easier said than done. I am very happy with Stella on my nice, large LCD monitor with scanlines and 99% accuracy. I am also happy with original hardware.

The question is, does the expense, space it takes up, and lack of convenience of the original hardware make me THAT much happier? 

[Flojomojo]

My family helped me make that choice. Everyone is different but I’d rather have the space than the accurate scan lines. 

[donjn]

5 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

My family helped me make that choice. Everyone is different but I’d rather have the space than the accurate scan lines. 

The irony is I am thinking of doing Retrotink on my LCD monitor which gives me no or super fake scanlines AND takes up space with the console!

With Stella, I LOVE the scanlines and the convenience!

 

[jhd]

 

Space is certainly an issue, but there are other important considerations too:

 

Personally, I completely refuse to use eBay, and it is extremely difficult to find original hardware and software at local retail. There are no specialist shops within a few hundred miles of here.

 

Related to this is the issue of price -- my entertainment budget is very limited as early-retirement is looming. I am simply unwilling to pay the current market price for vintage game systems. I may yet sell my entire collection as prices rise and I get closer to that magical birthday. 

 

I do own an original 2600 console (several, actually, including a Jr. and a Gemini), approximately 150 cartridges, and a CRT TV, but I much prefer to play games on my laptop using Stella or another emulator.  In the alternative, I also have all of the vintage game compilations released for the PlayStation 2.  

 

 

[davyK]

 

Two reasons I own original 2600s are nostalgia and paddle controllers.

[tkarner]

Real hardware and a CRT for me. Although I'll add that I have a modern-ish CRT, a 32" Sony flatscreen from 2001. Don't think I can go back to the fishbowl CRTs we had in the eighties.

 

Also, although I have multicarts, I still find myself using original cartridges and buying homebrew cartridges. There's just something intangibly satisfying about selecting a game off the shelf and plugging it into a console.

[Zonie]

Real hardware and my 1702 monitor. Eventually, when I get my man cave cleared out of some work stuff that can now go into my shop now it has air conditioning, I want to get an 80s' style "modern oak" entertainment center that is useless for modern TV's but had a hole for a 27", a VCR shelf, a Glass door stereo cabinet (for the consoles) and a cabinet or drawers below the TV and then some good comfy chairs...

Something like this $40 one in Grand Junction, too far away, but these things pop up all the time. I had essentially this very one but I have seen some with drawers too.

This and a nice 27" Toshiba. (I used to have a 40" mitsubishi CRT. That was the shit!) but at 300lbs, too heavy to keep. I kept that 1994 gem until I could get an LCD that wa at least as wide as it was.

[akator]

I'm a fan of both emulation and original hardware.  As others have mentioned, having things organized makes a huge difference.

 

I use emulation a lot, but there are times when it doesn't capture to total experience that original hardware does.  Those are the specific systems I keep.  For everyone those preferences are different.

 

An example of a system I love and have a lot of nostalgia for is the ColecoVision — but the reality for me personally is that I don't feel I'm missing much emulating the systems and its games.  Despite how much I love the ColecoVision, it's a physically large system and I don't really have space for one.

 

Another system that I love and have fond memories of is the Apple II series.  Problem is, once I bought a few of them I found I didn't use them enough to justify the maintenance and space requirements.  In the years since I sold them, I emulate Apple II a few days a year and am satisfied enough not to repurchase original hardware.

 

Here's a few photos of how I've got stuff organized.  There's a ton more than can be seen in the photos, stuff stored in the cabinets like game controllers, classic computers and laptops, handhelds, PDAs, a ton more.  But everything is organized so I can find it easily to use when wanted or needed.

 

As you can see, I've got emulation stuff setup for easy use with the original systems.

 

 

So you know, just go with what makes you happy.

 

Another thing to avoid is the cycle of buying and selling.  Do that enough times and you'll go crazy.  Emulate the hell out of any system you're considering buying, then wait a few months to make sure you really want it.  I've saved a lot of hassle by not buying stuff I'm satisfied with emulating.

Edited August 12, 2023 by akator

[M-S]

A key thing thing about playing on original hardware is planning, like where are you going put that stuff, how much you are willing to play, how much time you are going to spend on it and so on. If you want to give it another chance you need to think about that or you are going to end up with something that you don't use.

[Bomberman94]

When I want to play a game I simply want to play it - no PC config, updates and how to change things to do it like the original. Just plug and play. I also like the haptic of the original things. And I don’t understand the discussions about the ability to play a 40 year old system on a 4K Display - it is something different to play it on a TV like it is intended and to play it „the best possible way today“. And yes you’re right it sounds a bit old fashioned and that’s maybe what I am 🤷‍♂️

[Cynicaster]

I was 95% emulation up until about a year ago, now I have the following real HW setup and in regular use:

 

2600

NES

SMS

Genesis

PS2

PS3

Wii

 

In every case with the above consoles I'm either using a flashcart (Harmony, Everdrive, etc.) or, in the case of the later consoles, some kind of mod that enables running a ton of games without mountains of physical media.  This is the sweet spot for a lot of these systems, IMO: real hardware without shelves and shelves of cartridges and disks.

 

I still emulate all the time too, especially: arcade, Dreamcast, TG16, SNES, GBA.  I have an Anbernic 351MP handheld that has been amazing for work travel.  It's a great balance that works for me.  

 

I took this photo the other day... I just realized that every single piece of gaming stuff I own is within the frame of this picture, which shows a corner of my unfinished basement.  The cabinet in the background does contain some carts and boxes of controllers and cables and the like, but that's pretty much the extent of the outright cluttery stuff I have in the house.  I love hanging out down there... 

 

 

 

 

    

 

  

 

 

[pumaconcolor]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:09 AM, akator said:

I use emulation a lot, but there are times when it doesn't capture to total experience that original hardware does.  Those are the specific systems I keep.  For everyone those preferences are different.

I like that you've got everything plugged in and ready to go, plus you've got Prostick II's.  I love those things. 

 

As far as the "nostalgia" the OP mentioned, I don't know if that's as much a factor as people say it is.  It's more that we just really liked doing something, then went away from it, then realized we weren't really done with it yet.  Over the years I realized there are some things I just don't want to be without, even if I'm not using them at the moment.  My 2600, my NES, I love those things and will always come back to them from time to time.  It's nice to put the actual cartridge in the actual console and use the actual controller.  Other things from that era are nice but I'm content to use them occasionally in emulation.

 

On the subject of emulation, we're so lucky these days.  I have a 4K 43" monitor that seems huge and deluxe to me, but was really just a couple of hundred dollars a couple of years ago.  I hooked up a used business PC with a modest graphics card to it and I can run Steam and emulation with a gamepad controller.  It's so easy and looks amazing.  If I ever am burdened by having too much junk I'll definitely be all right with just a computer and a tv.

[Hawkeye68]

I have an adapter to use a regular 2600 joystick on the PC and that makes both 2600 and 400/800 emulation so much better.

 

To replicate the 2600 experience I grew up with, I'd have sit on the floor for hours in front of a 25" console TV.  Ha - my back and neck hurt just thinking about it!

[akator]

5 hours ago, pumaconcolor said:

I like that you've got everything plugged in and ready to go, plus you've got Prostick II's.  I love those things.

Thanks, glad you appreciate the setup.  It's always a work in progress that gets updated every few years, but for now I don't see any big changes coming.

 

In my experience it's key to have the systems set up and ready to go when I feel like playing them.  I've also got a gaming/emulation PC attached to the bedroom TV and a tabletop arcade at my workstation.  I try to make gaming as accessible as possible, even if I'm only playing 15 minutes a day during a break.

 

I love the ProSticks, they're by far my favorite all around 2600 compatible controller.  While it's not shown in the photos, I've got way too many classic controllers organized and stored in the cabinets on either side of the game station.  Around 2006 I started buying them, both old favorites plus ones I never owned.  Over the years I went through all of them but always came back to the ProSticks.  There are some games that I prefer with a SlickStik or TAC-2, but the ProSticks are good for most.

 

7 hours ago, Cynicaster said:

In every case with the above consoles I'm either using a flashcart (Harmony, Everdrive, etc.) or, in the case of the later consoles, some kind of mod that enables running a ton of games without mountains of physical media.  This is the sweet spot for a lot of these systems, IMO: real hardware without shelves and shelves of cartridges and disks.

I like your setup and agree completely about the flashcarts.  I've got ODE, flashcarts, and multicarts for every old system.  The expense is well worth it to have everything always ready to play.

3 hours ago, Hawkeye68 said:

I have an adapter to use a regular 2600 joystick on the PC and that makes both 2600 and 400/800 emulation so much better.

Definitely.  I've got many USB adapters for different controllers, it makes really gives emulation that extra bit of authenticity.  But truthfully, I've gotten to the point I don't mind using modern controllers most of the time because the improved comfort is appreciated.

 

The only USB adapter I don't have is for the 5200.  While I still have some original 5200 controllers, I now find them so uncomfortable that I've never bothered getting the adapter.  I have USB adapters for ColecoVision and 7800 controllers but I rarely use those controllers, gripping and firing with one hand and control with the other simply isn't much fun the way it used to be.  (Even back in the 80s I would often get cramps from extended play with those systems.)

Edited August 16, 2023 by akator

[dwh]

That set up by Akator is excellent. My game systems are in an old stereo cabinet. I am too old school to deal with emulation. Got the same rev 12 VCS from 1981 and and old CRT from 1978; and they both still work. With that written, I still want to invest in a recapped VCS/2600 with the circuitry that really outputs a good signal to (an older) HDMI (pre-smart) tv. And yes there is a major nostalgia effect every time I sit down to play the old systems that are all pre-nintendo entertainment system.(I gave my NES away a few years back to a relative that thought it was 'old' & cool)

[dwh]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye68 said:

I have an adapter to use a regular 2600 joystick on the PC and that makes both 2600 and 400/800 emulation so much better.

 

To replicate the 2600 experience I grew up with, I'd have sit on the floor for hours in front of a 25" console TV.  Ha - my back and neck hurt just thinking about it!

I use to sit cross-legged on the floor and play the Atari for hours too. I would be in traction if I tried that now days...

[Rom Hunter]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye68 said:

I have an adapter to use a regular 2600 joystick on the PC and that makes both 2600 and 400/800 emulation so much better.

 

To replicate the 2600 experience I grew up with, I'd have sit on the floor for hours in front of a 25" console TV.  Ha - my back and neck hurt just thinking about it!

Same for me.

I used to lay flat on my stomach on a thick orange carpet in front of a huge black & white television from the sixties, and later on a plastic chair in front of a huge color television from the seventies (complete with frustrating channel interference).

I now use an original VCS joystick or Suzo Arcade on my Stelladaptor to play the games on Stella (set on 'bad adjust' of course) for the nostalgia feeling.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Rom Hunter

[tremoloman2006]

To me, there's something special about playing on original hardware.

 

I have a heavy sixer modded for stereo output, S-Video out, and built-in pause button.  I put it in our spare bedroom where I let my girlfriend set it up as her bedroom.  I come in and play Atari in there every day.  I just have AA homebrews and a Harmony Encore cart which does the trick for us without taking much space.  Stella is fine and I use it regularly, but real hardware is where its at for me.

 

 

[MrMaddog]

For me the issue is not with nostalgia but practicallity...

 

I do not have the room in my small house for a large game collection.

 

I do not have the money for collecting because of things called "bills".

 

I cannot find any working 40+ year old consoles from retro game stores that are more interested in selling Nintendo/Sega games collectibles.

 

I am not a big time YouTuber who makes money by doing silly faces in thumbnail pics.

 

And it's just easier for me to keep all my games, from retro to Triple A, on a single PC machine.

 

Anyone who can use real hardware for that authentic classic gaming experience, then God bless you.  I used to be able to do that back in the 90's but it's just not feasible for me right now. 

 

Best I can do right now is to use CRT shaders and arcade style controllers.  Someday i'll be able to use a real CRT display and actual controllers via USB interfaces but until then I make do with a modern gamepad that I've spent more years recently using then the Atari joysticks I've used in my youth...

 

[akator]

20 hours ago, dwh said:

That set up by Akator is excellent.

Thank you!

 

20 hours ago, dwh said:

Got the same rev 12 VCS from 1981 and and old CRT from 1978; and they both still work. With that written, I still want to invest in a recapped VCS/2600 with the circuitry that really outputs a good signal to (an older) HDMI (pre-smart) tv.

CRTs really are the way to go if you have space.  At one point about a decade ago I had several CRTs setup at once, all with switch boxes to multiple consoles.  It was amazing to fire everything up at the same time.  The symphony (or cacophony) of sound from all of those systems at once was truly amazing.

 

But divorce and downsizing made that no longer possible.  While I still love CRTs, these days I don't miss them the way I used to.  My compromise is HDMI upscalers and scanline generators for all of my systems, both original hardware and emulation.  Sometimes I use the scanline generators, sometimes I don't, just depends on my mood.

 

19 hours ago, dwh said:

I use to sit cross-legged on the floor and play the Atari for hours too. I would be in traction if I tried that now days...

Oh yeah, I think we all did that.  I even did that playing handhelds in bed into my 30s.  But if I try to do that now, the pain gets bad fast.  Still wish I could, though.

 

11 hours ago, tremoloman2006 said:

To me, there's something special about playing on original hardware.

 

I have a heavy sixer modded for stereo output, S-Video out, and built-in pause button.  I put it in our spare bedroom where I let my girlfriend set it up as her bedroom.  I come in and play Atari in there every day.  I just have AA homebrews and a Harmony Encore cart which does the trick for us without taking much space.  Stella is fine and I use it regularly, but real hardware is where its at for me.

 

 

I like that setup.  It's clean and simple in a good way.

 

3 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

For me the issue is not with nostalgia but practicallity...

 

I do not have the room in my small house for a large game collection.

 

I do not have the money for collecting because of things called "bills".

 

I cannot find any working 40+ year old consoles from retro game stores that are more interested in selling Nintendo/Sega games collectibles.

 

I am not a big time YouTuber who makes money by doing silly faces in thumbnail pics.

 

And it's just easier for me to keep all my games, from retro to Triple A, on a single PC machine.

 

Anyone who can use real hardware for that authentic classic gaming experience, then God bless you.  I used to be able to do that back in the 90's but it's just not feasible for me right now. 

 

Best I can do right now is to use CRT shaders and arcade style controllers.  Someday i'll be able to use a real CRT display and actual controllers via USB interfaces but until then I make do with a modern gamepad that I've spent more years recently using then the Atari joysticks I've used in my youth...

 

Nothing wrong with that at all.  These days emulation is so good for most classic systems that it's not necessary to have original hardware.  Despite having original hardware, there are many times when I find emulation preferable because it's so easy to use.  Distros like Batocera really make emulation a pleasure.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by akator

[AtariSphinx]

I don't think it is nostalgia as have many original systems that never had growing up and prefer playing on original hardware. 

 

Emulation is definitely more convenient and more reliable. You also have some quality of life items like save states (if not playing in  HSC tournament) and button remaps

 

I can say I play better on original hardware especially in high score on Atari games.