tape based type-in spreadsheet basic program for Atari 600XL or 800XL

[newTIboyRob]

Since I only have the 410 tape drive and no disk drive, my choices are extremely limited for a spreadsheet program. All the more complex ones such as Speedcalc are off the table. (I am aware I am running on limited and primitive equipment here, so please don't criticize me any more.) 

 

Since I am on a limited budget, and especially since this is the only kind of software I am looking for at this time, it just doesn't make sense for me to delve into the emulator world of the FujiNet, AVG Carts or SDrive-MAX right now. Likely someday, but just not in the near future.

 

All that being said... can anyone remember, either in Compute! or any other magazine, or even any book, a type-in BASIC program for a decent spreadsheet program?  It obviously won't have bells and whistles in this context anyway, but at least would be something still usable, straightforward, with simple mathmatic equations and formulas?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[TGB1718]

I think your chances of finding something like that are zero to minus 1

 

[newTIboyRob]

 How do you explain the billion dollar lottery winners?   🙂

Edited September 4, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+MrFish]

Just get a cheap SIO2PC USB device. They can be had on Ebay for $20 - $25 shipped. With it, and the (free) RespeQt Windows/Mac/Linux program, you can load Atari disk images, executables, and cassette images from your PC to be run on your Atari computer.

 

Here are a couple. They're U.S.-based sellers. You can find U.K.-based sellers if you need to.

 

Ebay: SIO2PC USB device #1

 

Ebay: SIO2PC USB device #2

 

[+MrFish]

Actually, BCalc is a type in BASIC program. You type in BASIC DATA statements that contain the decimal codes for the binary executable file. The binary file is created using their M/L Editor program and then saved out to disk. I supposed it'd be possible to modify things to work for a cassette. It's a lottttttt of data statements though.

 

Here's the article, but I wouldn't trust all that OCR'ed data.

BCalc Article

 

Here's where the PDF magazine containing the article can be found.

Analog Magazine PDF's

 

 

[pirx]

BCalc looks absolutely fantastic. OCR errors are visible in the mac/65 listing.

 

If I am stuck in this situation, i'd go for the sio2pc solution, you can get the price down to a few dollars if you can solder a little bit. But if it is not an option at all, the next best option would be keeping the spreadsheet data as BASIC program. 

So Basic has got 2 dimensional tables

`10 DIM A(10,10)`
Please note this takes a lot of memory - 10*10*6 bytes + some additional cruft for a small, 10x10 table.

you can then assign values to cells:

`20 A(1,1)=10:A(2,1)=20:A(3,1)=30`

then you can do the calculations you wish

`30 A(10,1) = 0: FOR I=1 to 9: A(10,1) = A(10,1) + A(I, 1): NEXT I`

 

Now you have in the cell A(10,1) sum of cells A(1,1) ... A(9,1)

`40 PRINT "SUM: ";A(10,1)`

 

You can save the whole program on tape, load it, and modify it to your heart's content.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Wow, thanks for all that great info, MrFish!   Hmm, seeing as how these are only around the $25 mark, this now gets more interesting, considering my alternative here. So Atari's M/L Editor program must be the same concept as VIC-20's MLX program, i.e. typing in all that binary code and I would have to face that. Ok, I actually don't mind typing all that code in the basic program, but to be honest, I wouldn't know exactly how to modify that program to work for a cassette, but maybe you would?   I'm also skeptical about going through all that typing only to find other potential errors in the program that I likely wouldn't know how to fix either.  However, if someone who understood what's going on completely in that program could look over and verify that the program you linked was error-free, or at least, had corrections like Compute! used to publish, I would just type away as I am an extremely fast typist, and it would be end of story.  

 

(If you only knew what I have been going through to get a legit Speedscript 3.0 file from the net... tons of LOAD ERRORS when loading on tape and the like there.  At this point, I am about to type in the VIC 20 MLX program and all its related code from the Speedscript book!)

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+MrFish]

6 minutes ago, pirx said:

you can get the price down to a few dollars if you can solder a little bit.

5 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Pirx mentions soldering though... I am not good in that department.

He said you could get the price down (from $20 - $25). What he's talking about is building your own, which would cost less. Just buy one if you're not interested in DIY.

 

6 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

But let's say I do buy device # 2 above since it includes the mini cable... I still wouldn't be able to download and use the net's B-CALC file/sanyway would I, because I am using tape and not a disk drive, is that correct?  They don't make a downloadable file for cassette users? 

If you get an SIO2PC, you don't need your cassette drive, a disk drive, or anything else. The SIO2PC USB device works in conjunction with the RespeQt software to emulate disk drives and tape drives.

 

[+MrFish]

12 minutes ago, pirx said:

OCR errors are visible in the mac/65 listing.

Not surprised. There is an ATR with all the Mac/65 source files. It has the object file too, but not the original BASIC program with DATA statements.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Sorry, I was trying to edit my other thread at the same time you were posting that last one, Fish

[newTIboyRob]

Ok, so let me back up now, MrFish. You are saying that if I get the SIO2PC, that this device replaces the 410. So all I would have to do is buy that, use the RespeQt software, I would be able to use B-Calc on my 600 xl as well as save any work I do using BCALC in this same way, not using the 410.... is all that correct?

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+MrFish]

6 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Ok, so let me back up now, MrFish. You are saying that if I get the SIO2PC, that this device replaces the 410. So all I would have to do is buy that, use the RespeQt software, I would be able to use B-Calc on my 600 xl as well as save any work I do on the program in this same way, no 410.... is all that correct?

Are you talking about a stock (16KB) 600XL? In that case, you'll be limited by your available memory as to what you can run.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Yes, the stock 600 XL. I had learned that about its memory limitations, true.  In re-evaluating options, I think that B-CALC is actually way more than I need, as awesome as it looks. I am really just looking for an almost 6th grader type spreadsheet here, I mean, bare bones, nothing fancy, which is why I was leaning more towards a relatively scaled down basic program and sticking with the 410, which was my original post on top.

Edited September 4, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+MrFish]

10 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Yes, the stock 600 XL. I had learned that about its memory limitations, true.  In re-evaluating options, I think that B-CALC is actually way more than I need, as awesome as it looks. I am really just looking for an almost 6th grader type spreadsheet here, I mean, bare bones, nothing fancy, which is why I was leaning more towards a relatively scaled down basic program and sticking with the 410, which was my original post on top.

Spreadsheets that I'm aware of require more than 16KB. That doesn't mean they don't exist; I'm just not aware of any.

 

A stock 600XL is going to be very limited for productivity work. It's generally a cartridge game machine at 16KB.

 

There are some reasonable options for upgrading to 64KB, which will let you run the majority (99.9%) of software for the 8-bit computers.

 

Here's a simple DIY kit for $9.99 (plus shipping)

 

Here's a plug and play module for $29.99 (plus shipping)

 

[newTIboyRob]

Oh ok, thanks Mr. Fish. Yes, the Atari 600 XL is a different animal altogether. I just didn't know if there was one <16 KB that I could use with it.

Edited September 4, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[+CharlieChaplin]

Maybe someone could just send him a tape with a) BL/C and b) B-Calc  or Speedcalc on it ?

 

 

 

Or alternatively send him a cartridge with B-Calc or Speedcalc ?

 

 

Addendum: I found a spreadsheet program in Atari Basic in my collection. But it a) has a size of 18K or 19K (it is named "Calc 800XL" and won't work on a 600XL with standard 16K RAM) and b) uses german language in the program listing and the program description/manual... so this is of no help.

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

Charlie, thank you, but I just feel like no one will send or make me that cartridge, so I gave up on that concept.  If we could only find the American version of your Calc 800XL, but stripped down and usable on the 600xl...

[Ray Gillman]

No idea what it is but this atr disk on archive results from a simple search on archive for atari CALC

https://archive.org/details/a8b_bellcom_626

[Ray Gillman]

Here is a homecalc which operates in your browser but there is an ATR 90K file you can download which includes the original - have someone convert the ATR to a CAS maybe?
But if you have a browser just download libre office to get a real spreadsheet since it's open source it should exist for every device you have internet browsers for?
https://archive.org/details/a8b_Home_Calc_rev_2.2_1983_Sim_Computer_Products_US_BASIC

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Ray Gillman
link

[+DrVenkman]

Compute! had SpeedCalc but I don’t recall if it could operate in 16K and cassette. Get your machine upgraded to 64K and buy a FujiNet and your options widen considerably. 

[+MrFish]

14 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Compute! had SpeedCalc but I don’t recall if it could operate in 16K and cassette.

Speedcalc requires 48K.

 

[+MrFish]

BTW, were there any spreadsheets that would run in 80-columns -- either software or hardware based?

 

[+David_P]

2 hours ago, MrFish said:

BTW, were there any spreadsheets that would run in 80-columns -- either software or hardware based?

 

Looking at the source code for BCalc, it appears to use a custom DL and custom screen handling, so it will not.

 

https://www.atarimagazines.com/analog/issue63/bcalc.php

[+MrFish]

4 minutes ago, David_P said:

Looking at the source code for BCalc, it appears to use a custom DL and custom screen handling, so it will not.

 

https://www.atarimagazines.com/analog/issue63/bcalc.php

Yeah, I assumed as much; I tried using it (and SpeedCalc and VisiCalc) with Ace-80XL already and it was a no go.

 

I'm thinking it will be close to impossible to find a 40-column spreadsheet that will magically work with 80-column drivers of any sort. It would have to be designed with 80-columns in mind from the onset. It would definitely be a benefit for spreadsheets. It looks like we basically get 4 columns of cells otherwise.

 

[bfollowell]

On 9/4/2023 at 12:39 PM, newTIboyRob said:

(I am aware I am running on limited and primitive equipment here, so please don't criticize me any more.) 

 

 

 

I've followed your multiple threads off and on and I haven't noticed anyone criticizing you. We've tried to help and have offered you some very good suggestions. The problem that I've seen is that you've seemed reluctant to take any of the advice that's been given and you've been very reluctant to accept the reality that your current setup is extremely limited and that it is next to impossible to do what you're wanting to do with the current setup that you have. Those of us with knowledge and experience with these machines know that a base Atari 400 or 600XL are the most base machines and are little more than glorified game consoles without any upgrades or extra peripherals, able to do little more than run cartridge or cassette games.

 

@MrFish's suggestion of an SIO2USB device was an excellent suggestion that I didn't think to make earlier just because I haven't used one in years and have moved on to other, more elaborate devices. He is correct though, it is a relatively inexpensive yet elegant option that will allow you to emulate an Atari disk drive with your 600XL, opening up a world of software options to you. Of course, the 16KB limitation of the machine is then going to hurt you. His later suggestion of 64KB upgrade options was also spot on.