tape based type-in spreadsheet basic program for Atari 600XL or 800XL

[chevymad]

Can't help thinking that if you can find a 16k program, there will still be no room for data. 

[_The Doctor__]

Perhaps it saves to cassette as it goes.

[TGB1718]

Talking of tapes, today I found some old tapes I made around 1985, they've been dumped in several garages

over the years since then, just tried loading them and they all seem to be ok, I'm gob smacked

 

[Goochman]

Would he be able to buy a SubAVGCart to provide the memory enhancement and also ease of access to programs via SD card?

[+David_P]

1 hour ago, chevymad said:

Can't help thinking that if you can find a 16k program, there will still be no room for data. 

DataQue released a custom version of BCalc on a cart to support their '816 upgrade, but I think it was also compatible with a non upgraded computer.  Without DOS, there would be 8K or so for data - this assumes that the program properly confirms available RAM on boot.

[+David_P]

3 hours ago, MrFish said:

Yeah, I assumed as much; I tried using it (and SpeedCalc and VisiCalc) with Ace-80XL already and it was a no go.

 

I'm thinking it will be close to impossible to find a 40-column spreadsheet that will magically work with 80-column drivers of any sort. It would have to be designed with 80-columns in mind from the onset. It would definitely be a benefit for spreadsheets. It looks like we basically get 4 columns of cells otherwise.

 

If any of them use the default S: / E: drivers, they should be display agnostic.   Maybe SmartSheet, the BASIC program from Page 6, would work?

 

https://www.page6.org/archive/issue_22/page_31.htm

[bfollowell]

2 minutes ago, David_P said:

DataQue released a custom version of BCalc on a cart to support their '816 upgrade, but I think it was also compatible with a non upgraded computer.  Without DOS, there would be 8K or so for data - this assumes that the program properly confirms available RAM on boot.

It doesn't sound like he's willing, or at least not able, to spend much to upgrade beyond his stock, very basic setup, so I guess it would depend on price. From his replies, I think he may be looking into an SIO2USB  cable/adapter and a 64KB upgrade. Those two together would open up a world of opportunities.

 

[_The Doctor__]

Due to its need for two buffers, Smartsheet will only work on a 32K cassette or 48K disk system as a minimum.

but remember, today is different in that we have almost full complement of function microdos variants that can allow tape only limited memory programs to now run with DOS and use DISK storage and retrieval.  LiteDOS etc.

[+MrFish]

39 minutes ago, David_P said:

If any of them use the default S: / E: drivers, they should be display agnostic.

It's a nice idea in theory, but the practicality of a spreadsheet application managing display of precise rows and columns of more that just text with only the E: device is stretching things. Even full-featured word processors need special versions in order to function correctly with 80 column drivers of any kind. Typically what works are things like programming language editors, simple text editors, and DOS command lines. These don't need to manage things like word wrap (word processors) or column headings and vertical and horizontal selections & calculations (spreadsheets).

 

40 minutes ago, David_P said:

Maybe SmartSheet, the BASIC program from Page 6, would work?

I tried it out. Same as the others, it's taking over screen duties itself.

 

Interesting to see one in BASIC, though. It works in TBXL too, for a little more speed.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Edited September 5, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[800XLNZ]

You could try these tapes in an Atari 600xl emulator.

 

Odd characters in HC4 listing are inverse and control key entries.

 

 

 

hcalc4.cas hcalc4_data.cas HC4.LST

[800XLNZ]

I've attached a PDF ATASCII listing of the modified 600xl cassette spreadsheet.

If you change the "C" to "D" in lines 308 and 322 you get the original disk-based spreadsheet.

With the 600xl you can get a maximum of 4 columns by 18 rows.

Text is entered by preceding cell entries with a quote character (").

When loading or saving, at the prompt (?) enter "C:" in the modified program.

 

 

hcalc4_ATASCII_Listing.pdf

[800XLNZ]

Just noticed some lines in the pdf attachment have been truncated.

I used the Analog magazine G: device, FujiNet-PC and Altirra 4.10 to generate that listing.

 

Attached is Page 6 magazine Special Disk 56 (Fontmaster) that produces

a non-truncated output, again using FujiNet-PC and Altirra.

 

The resulting pdf file is 4MB in size so I won't attach it unless requested.

PAGE6_DS058_Fontmaster.atr

[newTIboyRob]

Yes, if you can post the complete program in .pdf format that would enable me to type it in and save to cassette on my actual 600xl, that would be fantastic!  More than fantastic!

[800XLNZ]

Here's the new pdf listing, best of luck.

hcalc4_ATASCII_Fontmaster_Listing.pdf

[newTIboyRob]

Wow, that was SO super of you, 800XLNZ. You put an end to the long and winding road. Can not thank you enough for this!!!!!

[newTIboyRob]

Ok, so, throughout the day I was able to type in all that basic code of the above attachment "Home Calc". Keep in mind I have never typed a printed article in Atari Basic before on an actual 600 xl I now have; I have just used the online emulator to practice with simple subroutines or writing simple programs before the "big show". Here are the results, so far:

 

1) A literal dozen lines/times where the machine buzzed. I figured out that it meant the line end was nearing/approaching, but you get like 2 letters you can enter after that.

(Feel free to quote me here on the questions and the bullets with your answers:)

• First of all, is that all correct, yes or no, or what exactly does it mean?
•  Sometimes I heard a buzz sound sometimes even not when approaching the over limit area, but wasn't sure if it just randomly does that or not. I could have sworn I heard it if I pressed a little too vigorously or something 

2) Luckily, I figured out that the ":" in Atari also are just command separators, (not the ; but the :) ...thus I was able to break the line at that junction, not during a command, and, thankfully, the original programmer left at least 1 line in between lines so I could get that last bit of the line in on the consecutive line number. SMART idea. Going forward, I would even say leaving several lines actually would be better, because you never know when you have to add a line!

 

3) Since we can separate lines at the colon as in above, is it that the computer "auto snakes", in that it just picks up processing code wherever it leads off in the preceding line, so it is like one contiguous snaking code throughout the program, broken up by command separators and line #'s issuing commands, basically?

 

4) I was amazed that there was only 1 main issue I encountered in this long program, that is, 1 that I couldn't figure out as I did with the above.  Though it involves multiple line #'s, as I say, it is just 1 concept involving how to get a few symbols printed to be typeable in the program. I know many of you will know this answer!  (So perhaps DL the above 3.82 MB program, and you can follow the exact line #'s and write in the answers to help me...):

 

a) It is the symbols in line 162 (which I have broken up, so thus, it will be in a line 163): 

after "CELL ENTRY:    a) how to get the E special characters and the arrow symbols into the program

 

b) similar issue in line 272

c) the 2 spots in line 276

d) line 414

e) line 460: NOTE here it is not inverse

f) lines 462 & 470 which are 

 

 

I have it all typed in as I sit here, but haven't yet tried saving it to tape. (I did try my 410 on a small program prior to this mammoth typing session I did today in bits and pieces, and it did save and load that perfectly.)

So, what I have here is still now just sitting there, waiting to be saved... and I want to save it within the next hour or so because I hate to think that there could be anything that could all that work in the interim!

 

...Thus if someone could answer all the above ASAP, I will be relieved and then I can save it first, try it out, and report back.  Thanks so much!!!

 

 A special thanks again to 800XLNZ once again for what looks like will be an awesome program!

[+Stephen]

Sorry - I cannot properly split your post and quote.

 

1 - Yes.  Atari BASIC has a length limit on each line of a program.  The only other way to make it "buzz" when typing, is hit CTRL+2.

2 - Correct - : separates commands on a line.  Other useful characters - when printing, ; means append, , means add a tab then continue printing.

3 - Each line number is considered a "chunk of code".  Meaning, even if your program has 3 commands separated by : (such as 10 ? 1:? 2:? 3).  You could never issue a GOTO command such that only ?3 was printed.  Any reference to GOTO or GOSUB 10, would issue all 3 print statements.

4 - Not sure I follow, but if you are entering data into a program, and need text which is a control character in quotes, hitting the ESC character before typing the key, will make it show up.

 

Hope this helps.

[newTIboyRob]

Thank you. Actually if you look at the program lines you will see what I mean.  I have been practicing on this https://eahumada.github.io/AtariOnline/basic/basic-mame.html, and when you press a PC keyboard ESC, you do get that symbol, but when I hit ESC and then the arrow keys on it, I don't see any cursor arrows.

 

I am practicing there first so I don't mess up what I have on the real 600xl!  So, here again are the issues:

 

a) It is the symbols in line 162 (which I have broken up, so thus, it will be in a line 163): 

after "CELL ENTRY:    a) how to get the E special characters and the arrow symbols into the program

 

b) similar issue in line 272

c) the 2 spots in line 276

d) line 414

e) line 460: NOTE here it is not inverse

f) lines 462 & 470 which are 

 

I find line 162 especially confusing... in other words, is it saying you are to type the actual word ESC in inverse video button like all others found in the program (not the actual ESC key at that point) and then type the words CELL ENTRY and then when you get to that point of the symbols, press ESC and the arrow keys will appear there maybe?

Edited September 18, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

(I would need someone to walk me through those specific 7 lines, even though they are just symbols in question here)

[_The Doctor__]

why practice on some emulator?

you can practice on your real machine and then load /edit your program on the real machine

many emulators do not make real keyboard and screen editor combinations easy to do because they have to map stuff to the PC keyboad and back

a real Atari will have zero issues showing and making the symbols you need.

like pressing

ESC then hold control while pressing arrow key

that will work just fine on a real Atari.

 

[newTIboyRob]

I was afraid that that would mess up the long program I have right now on my real XL that is why I was using this online emulator... so you are saying on my real Atari right now, if I just press ESC key then hold control while pressing any of the directional arrow keys that the pressing of the Escape key won't make me lose anything I've done? (that is what I have been fearing these past few hours).... is all that correct?

Edited September 18, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[_The Doctor__]

@newTIboyRob

save the program first

what would happen if there were a power glitch

or and error that locks the machine up?

save what you have done so far!

 

the escape key will not erase your work

the clear screen code will not erase your programs lines of code

it will clear the screen

then you can type LIST and you work will scroll by as a listing

 

none of those screen control character will erase the memory of the computer.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by _The Doctor__

[newTIboyRob]

long story on why i am not currently saving it first, (as I usually know to do.)  So is it that sometimes, within a line, you can have an arrow key combined with the inverse video key, is that why some arrows are plain and others look different in that basic program I am referencing above?

[_The Doctor__]

NO the control character will be inverse all on it's own, you do NOT hit inverse and then input the combination.

You simply hit escape and then the desired special character, it will be the correct character symbol as is. You do not use inverse on the arrow and clear screen bent arrows etc.

Inverse is only used on regular text characters and standard graphics characters. It is not used on screen editor special attribute control chars.

I you pressed the correct keys after the escape key it will appear as the pdf shows, with the inverse applied by the Atari and not by you

Edited September 18, 2023 by _The Doctor__