tape based type-in spreadsheet basic program for Atari 600XL or 800XL

[newTIboyRob]

ivop, do you have any idea why my arrow keys won't work, if I typed that program listing in verbatim?  Also...  when you use yours, does it print a solid white line, say if you are in A1 and want to arrow down into A2, like some other spreadsheets do?   

[ivop]

4 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

ivop, do you have any idea why my arrow keys won't work, if I typed that program listing in verbatim?  Also...  when you use yours, does it print a solid white line, say if you are in A1 and want to arrow down into A2, like some other spreadsheets do?   

No, the arrow keys do not let you "walk" from cell to cell. They change the viewport of the whole sheet. Entering data must always be done by pressing ESC and entering the desired cell you want to change.

Note that if your whole sheet fits the screen, the arrow keys do nothing. You need at least 5x19 to see any effect, which I just checked, does not work on a 600XL with 16kB. ? FRE(0) shows 4056 here btw.

Oh, 4x19 works. Then you can move up and down.

Edited September 20, 2023 by ivop

[newTIboyRob]

oh, so  THAT is why nothing from the arrows, I have been selecting the minimum bare bones 4x18 to save as much memory as possible!  Kind of pointless then. I will try at the 4X19, but this was good to know, thanks. So at least that explains the arrows then.

 

I wonder why the simple addition math hasn't worked though, say I am in cell B1 and I put in 50 and in  B2 I put in 75...

I press Esc to get into the cell entry... but then what do I type exactly? Can you give me those exact steps please?  I remember trying a few different ways last night, but none would take. 

 

Then I would have to see about the replicate and the recalculate, the former I would suspect is "Copy" as we know in today's spreadsheets. 

 

Also, did you come across a little instruction manual pdf or something that will explain all these functions that you could post?  That would be a nice guide to have and use with this.

Edited September 20, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[ivop]

You have 50 in B1 and 75 in B2. Then press ESC again, type B3, enter, and then enter B1+B2 enter. It should say 125.

 

Now put 15 in C1 and 65 in C2. Type R. Source cell: B3 enter. From cell (this is confusing, but it's the first cell of the range you want to fill with the contents of Source cell): C3 enter, To cell: C3 enter. Now it will display 0 in C3. Press C to recalculate. Wait, and it should look like this:

 

[newTIboyRob]

You're great to test the program and explain to me like this, and even with a screenshot. It is a bit confusing at first try I think, but the good news is my screen before typing looks exactly like that, and now I know about the arrows not working in the smallish mode. Later tonight I will source back to what you just mentioned and try those steps and replicate/copy and then all that remains is to test any data loading ability back from tape.  With each step, getting closer to the finish line, thank goodness!

 

In the mean time I hope to find a manual online for reference so I don't have to trouble anyone.

[invisible kid]

You can even change the program if you get familiar enough with BASIC. Tailor it to your liking. That's how we learned back in the day.

[ivop]

It is listed here:

 

http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-home-calc_19746.html

 

No manual, and only the disk version can be downloaded. The BASIC listing is scrambled with unprintable variable names. I suppose the cas version in this thread is the unscrambled version of that, hence the Vsomething variable names.

 

It comes with two sample sheets.

 

PROFLOSS:

 

Note that you first have to create an empty sheet with the correct dimensions before loading the data:

 

And here's how to sum a row or column:

 

It wouldn't fit in the limited cell space if you had to type B10+B11+B12+B13+B14+B15+B16, but you can do B10:B16.

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

I just feel lucky to have something at all, seeing as finding a spreadsheet usable on the 600xl was thought by many to be an impossible, or at least, severely limited, thing. While it certainly is the latter, it definitely was possible, and at least it gives a taste of what spreadsheets back in the day could do. Just as I and some of the others expected/suspected, you only get a page or 2 for data with those 4000 bytes or so free remaining (heck, the stock VIC 20 only had 3583 to use!)  but that was all I really was hoping for, so in that regard, this has been mostly a successful venture. 

 

Even to find one at all was amazing, and that the forum member could get it printed and uploaded with ready to type and legible code is even more impressive, at least, to me. 

 

I will try out the things above using the examples you provided and report back. A shame there is no manual though. That would made navigation a whole lot easier.  Ivop, thank you so much.

[ivop]

Here's another one. Set A1 to 1, set A2 to 1, set A3 to A1+A2. Then, (R)eplicate Source Cell A3, From Cell A4, To Cell A18. Then re(C)alculate. The well known Fibonacci sequence

 

 

The program is very slow, especially redrawing the viewport, but I guess you could do a limited form of household bookkeeping with it if you're patient.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by ivop

[newTIboyRob]

Exactly what I was thinking... I was just trying to do limited forms of listings, household bookkeeping, very basic, simplistic stuff.  My original desire was for Speedcalc, BCalc and more advanced ones, (I figured why not go for more of the Rolls Royce of programs), but with those came more memory requirements, hence my eventual settling on something like this Homecalc.  I don't do much gaming anymore. I thought The 600 XL with its limited confines is just a glorified game console basically, which I knew but was trying to put to use in some capacity instead of just throwing it away or having it just there with a perfectly good still tv.

 

Buried in the program listing, ironically, was a mention of Basic-calc, so somehow this was either that one renamed or some kind of hybrid or relation. That is ironic... on the other thread, we were going nuts (at least I was), in trying to port that Applesoft basic version to the more complex use of Atari strings, and just about to give up, and then a few nights ago, someone new reads this related post, and converts it to a type in program beautifully. That's why, many times I've come close, just about to the brink, but ultimately never gave up. Like the lotto motto, "Hey you never know."

 

I have now re-loaded the program into memory and will go back and try all the functions you kindly described. I'll let you know how it goes.  Thank you!

Edited September 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

So here are the results in 4x19 configuration. I don't see any movement of the arrow keys, as I still hear that lovely buzzer. But at one point, I tried Cntrl  and down arrow just to see what had happened, and it brought me to another screen, this time starting from 2 and ranging down 19 in the far left column. Otherwise, the arrows aren't doing any real function in my version since I can't walk through cells.  How/what have you been using them for?

 

I'm starting to think there was some kind of discrepancy between the usable program you have and mine on the real 600xl.  But then again, the Doctor got his to work  (Doc, where are you???) ... so mine should too, theoretically speaking.  I say this because I had in fact last night tried just what you said in your summing formula mention:

 

You have 50 in B1 and 75 in B2. Then press ESC again, type B3, enter, and then enter B1+B2 enter. It should say 125. ... instead, I get the lovely buzzer and the input error message.

 

Because it couldn't even do that, I couldn't get anywhere further, thus couldn't try the Recalculate (it had no sum!)  nor Replicate  (Fibonacci style.)

 

I am running out of thoughts otherwise. If the program I entered verbatim code-wise should produce on my end what you see on your end, I just don't get what is awry here, at all.

 

I am going to try one last concept. Maybe I can go back and enter the speical Poke command the Doctor mentioned and retype those 12 lines I wound up having to split due to/to avoid their lengthiness, thus taking them back to their one long line each, for all 12 spots, that is, if it allows me to do that. Then it would be truly verbatim, not just code verbatim.

 

After that.... I have no clue what to do. Talk about a tease!

Edited September 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Well, I didn't have to type very long. I started right on line 34, with adding Poke 82,0 via a : in line 2, thinking it would give me 6 extra characters per basic line. It didn't. That listed program buzzes right at the letter "E" in line 34, about three quarters of the way down the line, no matter what. Try it, see if you get the same result?

 

Thus, pointless to even try to go further changing any of the other truncated 11 lines.

 

Doc:  I hope you come back and revisit this last post and tell me what changes you made when you typed yours on your real Atari and got it to work!  I don't see how anyone could abbreviate any of that code, except lines that wouldn't be necessary for functionality.

 

Ivop: I may have to, ultimately, just try your record-file-to-tape method after all, though I have been avoiding that due to the volume fiddlings nightmare that may very well come into play. I do have a 3.5mm jack to come out of the front of the PC and I have a great Radio Shack CCR-81 tape recorder which has mic input. I just went through this fruitless hell in trying to convert WAV files for a spreadsheet and word processor program for the VIC-20 (if you read those posts, you will see where I am coming from and why I wanted to just type something in... and then I get here and of course, that doesn't work yet here either.... yet....) 

 

 

[newTIboyRob]

I had an afterthought, which was, maybe you do the POKE 82,0 in immediate mode before typing in the actual program directly, instead of putting that code in the actual program at line 2. Either way, I don't see how it would have changed the outcome, as most of the lines requiring truncation had more than 6 characters past the buzzer sound.

 

Nevertheless, I am posting 6 screenshots showing where I split the lines (ignore the line #339's being chopped off in pic#5, as that line is accounted for prior.) The top of the first page at the right shows all 12 pages and their ranges, and the corrections are obviously in red.  Anyone who likes solving puzzles and mysteries... boy this one is quite a challenge and right up your alley!!!  

Edited September 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[TGB1718]

2 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

Doc:  I hope you come back and revisit this last post and tell me what changes you made when you typed yours on your real Atari and got it to work!  I don't see how anyone could abbreviate any of that code, except lines that wouldn't be necessary for functionality.

@newTIboyRob

If you want to notify someone in the forum, just typethe "@" character and start typing the name of the forum member

you will start to se a list of people, once you see the one you want, just click it and they will get a notification just like you have now

once you post the message

Edited September 21, 2023 by TGB1718

[newTIboyRob]

Thank you TGB, good to know!

[newTIboyRob]

@_The Doctor__  thanks for all your help with the program the other night. I hope all is ok. If you get a chance, can you scroll back and read the posts since your last one on this thread?

Edited September 21, 2023 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

@ivop ... I just now tried bringing the just shy of 9 minute WAV file from the PC to the 410 cassette recorder. Seemed to go fine, but then after about 15 seconds or so after the CLOAD, the system return ERROR -140 and the 410 wouldn't continue, forcing me to just have to press stop.  So no go with that, unfortunately.

[TGB1718]

That's an SIO error, from that I would suspect it's not picking up the data from the 410, so would imply it' not recorded correctly

how did you record the .WAV to tape ?

 

btw. do you have this ? always keep it handy on my desktop

 

 

Atari Error Codes.bmp

Edited September 22, 2023 by TGB1718

[newTIboyRob]

Hello again TGB1718, glad to see you. I recorded the .WAV to tape using a standard 3.5" audio cable from the front PC headphone jack straight into the Radio Shack CCR-81 tape recorder's mic inputs with the recorder volume set to about 7. Somewhere along the way, I learned this was the jack to use on the recorder, because, in the past, when I tried the recorder's AUX input with the VIC-20 computer, the .WAV sending failed in that scenario. 

 

Do you think trying the AUX jack here would make a/the difference?

[TGB1718]

9 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

Do you think trying the AUX jack here would make a/the difference?

It may do, just depends on the Stereo unit itself, the Mic input may not be "Hi Fidelity" as it's really only expecting speech.

 

I use a Technic's Stacking HiFi and pretty sure I used the AUX input when doing any Atari tapes, can't hurt to try it

[newTIboyRob]

Good point. Ok, I shall try it right now.

[newTIboyRob]

@TGB1718 ... 

No luck. I even tried coming out of the PC rear port, so now I've "officially" tried all 4 ways:   PC front--> Aux In,   PC front--> Mic In,   PC rear--> Aux In,   PC rear-->Mic In, and I can't get the data sounds on the Radio Shack tape recorder. I know the PC is outputting sound because I hear it through my Realtek speakers.

 

I'm curious to your thoughts about the changes I made to the program listing in the photos above. Any thought there?   

[ivop]

The changes you made to the long lines seem fine on first glance. But considering the printout is from the exact same cas file I use, I assume you still have made some typos. With all the Vnumber variables, a mistake is easy to overlook.

 

As for recording the WAV file, best use the headphone output of the sound card and go to aux in. Not mic in, which as an extra pre-amplifier builtin. Playing the tape back beforehand on the audio deck will tell you if it recorded anything. I noticed the wav file has a pretty long lead-in, so you might have to skip a few seconds and press play there.

 

Where do you connect your realtek speakers to? I assume those are two speakers. It might not be the same playback device as from which you are recording. You should be able to select the playback device somewhere in your soundcard's settings.

 

Edit: oh, I missed the first post where you mention the headphone jack. If that's the same jack you connect your speakers to, that one should be used. You might have to either increase or decrease the recording level on your taperecorder to get it picked up reliably by the 410.

Edited September 22, 2023 by ivop

[newTIboyRob]

Oh, I was using the green line out jack at the back of the PC into the Aux In on the tape recorder, so still an Out to In. (The Realtek Speakers are in another jack at the back of the computer.)  If they are both outputs back there though, shouldn't the green line out have worked to aux in?   Maybe I should try disconnecting the speakers at the back of the PC and try that jack straight into the tape recorder you are saying?  I played back the tape and no sound/tones had made it to tape. (I noticed that long lead in you mentioned too.)

[+Stephen]

3 hours ago, ivop said:

The changes you made to the long lines seem fine on first glance. But considering the printout is from the exact same cas file I use, I assume you still have made some typos. With all the Vnumber variables, a mistake is easy to overlook.

 

As for recording the WAV file, best use the headphone output of the sound card and go to aux in. Not mic in, which as an extra pre-amplifier builtin. Playing the tape back beforehand on the audio deck will tell you if it recorded anything. I noticed the wav file has a pretty long lead-in, so you might have to skip a few seconds and press play there.

 

Where do you connect your realtek speakers to? I assume those are two speakers. It might not be the same playback device as from which you are recording. You should be able to select the playback device somewhere in your soundcard's settings.

 

Edit: oh, I missed the first post where you mention the headphone jack. If that's the same jack you connect your speakers to, that one should be used. You might have to either increase or decrease the recording level on your taperecorder to get it picked up reliably by the 410.

Make sure you are writing to the correct channel.  It's been too long - I don't remember if it was left channel = data, right channel = audio (music could b played back while loading, States & Capitals for example did this).  Given that you have just the data file, I would recommend outputting the audio in MONO, therefore writing it to BOTH channels.  This way it doesn't matter which is the correct one.