AtariAge + Atari Q&A

[Giles N]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:11 AM, Kaboomer said:

What is this forum topic again? Wow, we are really not in Kansas anymore! 

We need a new AA-pinned thread: ‘what was the AtariAge + Atari Q&A-thread originally about?’.

 

The only possible way to unravel this mystery is to consult a professional Atari historian, as the subject matter has become far too complex and the details so lost in mists of time and so disputed among the learned, that no normal atari-subscriber any longer can handle even the basics of the equations herein. We need a Atari-historian with the mental capacities of …. Einstein… did we have one… what was his name again…?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Giles N

[Lord Mushroom]

10 hours ago, Zeptari said:

Atari doesn’t suffer a bit from lack of characters/symbols. Atari was an era when gaming was about neon lights and new wave music, basically it’s own thing.it was a time before cartoon mascots and an endless line of me too platformers. 

I think he means in terms of selling games to a large audience today.

[Giles N]

17 hours ago, Zeptari said:

On 10/3/2023 at 8:27 PM, GraffitiTavern said:

I mostly agree, but I think Atari does suffer a bit from a lack of recognizable symbols besides the logo.

Atari doesn’t suffer a bit from lack of characters/symbols.

Many of the more the colorful franchises were lost to Warner.

 

Atari as it is now, must try to make the IPs they have as nice looking and nice-sounding as possible, - and of course be very fun and playable - which essiantially means getting to grips with what makes for a really good game. 
 

Whatever they make of it, collections or remakes or full sequels, they need to find some sweetspot that appeals both to retrogamers and new gamers.

 

Many of the oldest IPs they own, didn’t get proper sequels. They were so early, they rather played their part in defining genres, which then ‘everyone at the time’ (1976-1983) made their own versions of.

 

Later, these genres got redefined or ramped up, from a single screen top down shooter, to vertically scrolling top down shooters, then to vertically scrolling top-down shooters with tons of levels, enemies, elaborate dramatic music, pick ups etc.

 

To ramp up the oldest IPs like that, still making them ‘feel retro’, guess it call into question, where such things really will land, when they’ve been off the gaming production-line for so long.

 

It’s a-lot of gap to fill in there, and then to have the gamers still feeling its meaningful.

 

If cloak and dagger had had sequels running every 5 year all the way up ‘til today…. what it look like…?

 

What would Cloak and Dagger 4 released in 1992 look like? What about Cloak and Dagger 6 for PS2?
 

Would it have grown into World of Cloaks and Daggers, massive multiplayer online…?

 

Would it be the Creed of Cloak and Dagger - 3rd person stealth action…?

 

Would it be Cloak and Dagger the intense fps?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Giles N

[Giles N]

Anyway no wonder that Mr.Cloak and Dagger got no sequels - he brilliantly went underground and into hiding, hiding himself so well no-one, not even Atari themselves found him for like 50 years straight…

 

[Giles N]

Another question is - ask someone today between 15-30, ‘Atari. What’s the first game or game-character that comes to mind?’

 

You’d probably not get the same answer as if you’d asked the same question to someone 31-60’.

 

Quite a lot of gap to bridge here to.

[Lord Mushroom]

28 minutes ago, Giles N said:

Another question is - ask someone today between 15-30, ‘Atari. What’s the first game or game-character that comes to mind?’

 

You’d probably not get the same answer as if you’d asked the same question to someone 31-60’.

Both people would probably say Pac-Man.

[GraffitiTavern]

1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Both people would probably say Pac-Man.

If it's a young gamer, they probably know Pac-Man is Namco because it is still an active series with new games. I think young people would know the logo and not much else.

[guppy]

1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Both people would probably say Pac-Man.

Of course, and the thing about that is that Pac-Man isn't an Atari trademark.  Atari was given license to port Namco's Pac Man arcade game to the 2600, which Atari developed in-house (Todd Frye).  But the trademark for Pac Man remains property of Namco, now Bandai Namco, and is pretty well out of reach for Atari SA.  Very likely the value of the Pac Man trademark exceeds that of all of Atari SA.

 

So too with most of the other classic arcade era characters, either owned by others, or not particularly memorable nor successful enough to be worth attaching to a modern re-launch of the company.

 

So much of Atari coin-op classics of the pre-83 era were too old to be from the "cartoon character" mascot period; most were in the "geometry + stick figure" era that preceded it.  And in the "cartoon character" era, Atari didn't really develop any characters.  

 

Of that era, the notable non-Mario characters are mostly by other companies, many of whom licensed their arcade hits to Atari for development/publishing on the 2600, but did not relinquish ownership of the trademark to Atari:

• Pac Man (Namco)  (Pac man, despite being more of a faceless geometry era character, did successfully transition to being a cartoon character.)
• Dig Dug (Namco)  (would be a good candidate, if it was an Atari trademark)
• Space Invader (Taito) (The invader bug is recognizable, of the era, but doesn't quite have the charisma.)
• Q*Bert (Gottlieb) (Another good candidate, sadly not an Atari trademark.)
• "Robotron guy" (Bally-Williams)
• Bentley Bear (Atari) (Kindof a generic bear... I guess that's it from Atari's coin-op legacy? Pretty much everything else is a spaceship or a tank)
• Sir Square of Adventure (but he's just a square.  The dragons ARE good and Atari and of the era AND unique; they're arguably the best Atari has.)

 

It'd almost be better if Atari came up with something new today to serve as a mascot.  And they just gave us "Mr. Run-and-Jump" ... who is yet another generic stick figure type character, and not really a viable cartoon character mascot.  If they cartoonify him, and give him a less generic name, he could work, tho.  Mario was once Jumpman, so I don't see why they couldn't rename him, but it seems like they missed an opportunity to give him a more proper name to begin with.

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, GraffitiTavern said:

I think young people would know the logo and not much else.

And you cannot play a logo can you.

 

So, young people hardly know about one game-thing that is owned by this Atari…?

 

I’d say Atari have some catching-up to do…

 

[Lord Mushroom]

52 minutes ago, Giles N said:

So, young people hardly know about one game-thing that is owned by this Atari…?

Here is the result of a survey of the awareness of Atari as a brand in 2010:

 

 

I don´t think the numbers have improved since then. So most young people don´t even know that Atari have ever existed. But for the young people who know about Atari´s properties, I think Pong has the most well known gameplay, and Asteroids is the most well known game name.

 

In a prospect for potential Atari investors in 2021, it said that the logo was recognized by 80%, though.

[Matt_B]

1 hour ago, Lord Mushroom said:

Here is the result of a survey of the awareness of Atari as a brand in 2010:

 

 

They could have just cut to the chase and had one bar for the under 40s and one for the over. You're either old enough to remember the glory days of 1977-1982 or you're not.

 

In 2010, Atari were still a mildly relevant brand in game publishing with franchises like Unreal Tournament, Neverwinter Nights and Civilization in their recent history. It's only going to worse after the lost decade that was the 2010s.

 

The over 40s of 2010 are now well into their 50s. They're getting to the point where relevant markets to branch into would be retirement homes and incontinence products.

[PowerDubs]

11 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

The over 40s of 2010 are now well into their 50s. They're getting to the point where relevant markets to branch into would be retirement homes and incontinence products.

 

https://games.aarp.org/games/atari-breakout

 

https://games.aarp.org/games/atari-pong

 

https://games.aarp.org/games/atari-centipede

 

https://games.aarp.org/games/atari-missile-command

 

https://games.aarp.org/games/atari-asteroids

 

https://www.aarp.org/home-family/personal-technology/info-2021/classic-gaming-consoles.html

 

 

https://www.aarp.org/home-family/personal-technology/info-2022/atari-pong-nolan-bushnell.html

 

 

[Mercenary]

Why is it that most of the vast majority of items on the Atari website don't ship outside of the U.S?

A couple of the Atari 2600+ cartridges ship worldwide (Berzerk and Mr Run and Jump), but the Outlaw cartridge does not. Why?

Considering how much support Atari has had in Europe (it pretty much kept Atari alive in the mid to late 80s in particular), it doesn't look good to me. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Mercenary

[Atari Dogs]

In would be nice to see Atari release a two games in one cartridge (using a switch on the cart) one being the original release and one being a 2023 version.  For instance Outlaw and a Gunfight-like version, basically the original and an "Arcade" version.  Show what the 2600 can do when pushed like the homebrew developers have done.

 

But maybe the 2600+ would not be able to play the new games. Also, I keep thinking of the 2600+ as just a 2600 and not able to play 7800 games. 

[Wildstar]

5 hours ago, Matt_B said:

They could have just cut to the chase and had one bar for the under 40s and one for the over. You're either old enough to remember the glory days of 1977-1982 or you're not.

 

In 2010, Atari were still a mildly relevant brand in game publishing with franchises like Unreal Tournament, Neverwinter Nights and Civilization in their recent history. It's only going to worse after the lost decade that was the 2010s.

 

The over 40s of 2010 are now well into their 50s. They're getting to the point where relevant markets to branch into would be retirement homes and incontinence products.

Actually, the graph is more accurate because is does drop off after the arcade days but there are people familiar in one way or form to Atari up to about the Atari Jaguar days. After that, Atari is hardly known by younger individuals. Once you get to sub-teen, it really doesn't matter because 80-90% of them doesn't care about what happened before they were born except what is taught in school. Guess what, video game history isn't something public school and even most private schools don't even teach because it isn't "academic" enough. It doesn't fit the prescribed curriculum program. Video game industry is not something that academic ivory tower folks think is legitimate areas of academic study.

 

Matt_B, just because someone is 50s, they are most likely not looking to retirement homes or incontinance products. Not for another 25-30 years. The standard retirement age is not the age most at that age go into retirement homes or looking for such products. People who get the medical health care and take care of themselves are likely to live until 85-105. Retiring at 65 and then spending the next 15 years going on vacations and stuff. They may downsize their homes from one that had 3-5 bedrooms to a 1-2 bedroom house because their children are grown up and out of the house. Retirement homes (facilities with certified caretakers) are if or when they no longer can care for themselves. This varies but typically, most will not need to be in such facilities until they are in their 80s if they manage their healthcare well. Most will only be their in the last 5-10 years of their life and with good care of oneself, that would begin around 85 to 95.

 

While it is true that people are beginning to prepare and get their affairs together for their retirement in their 50s, but they aren't looking at retirement homes & incontinence products. They may look at downsizing their home to a smaller home.

 

Your young age and comments are a bit off color and demonstrative of age discrimination against those who happen to be older than you. Try not being so adolescent. However, people tend to learn about the history of video games and such when they get into college and if you get into a video game design degree (and closely related degrees), you'll learn about Atari in video game history much like a subject covered in art history course sequence. There is even programs on Amazon Prime Video on the subject. 

 

You just can't expect grade school to teach it. 

 

[Matt_B]

4 minutes ago, Wildstar said:

Actually, the graph is more accurate because is does drop off after the arcade days but there are people familiar in one way or form to Atari up to about the Atari Jaguar days. After that, Atari is hardly known by younger individuals. Once you get to sub-teen, it really doesn't matter because 80-90% of them doesn't care about what happened before they were born except what is taught in school. Guess what, video game history isn't something public school and even most private schools don't even teach because it isn't "academic" enough. It doesn't fit the prescribed curriculum program. Video game industry is not something that academic ivory tower folks think is legitimate areas of academic study.

 

Matt_B, just because someone is 50s, they are most likely not looking to retirement homes or incontinance products. Not for another 25-30 years. The standard retirement age is not the age most at that age go into retirement homes or looking for such products. People who get the medical health care and take care of themselves are likely to live until 85-105. Retiring at 65 and then spending the next 15 years going on vacations and stuff. They may downsize their homes from one that had 3-5 bedrooms to a 1-2 bedroom house because their children are grown up and out of the house. Retirement homes (facilities with certified caretakers) are if or when they no longer can care for themselves. This varies but typically, most will not need to be in such facilities until they are in their 80s if they manage their healthcare well. Most will only be their in the last 5-10 years of their life and with good care of oneself, that would begin around 85 to 95.

 

While it is true that people are beginning to prepare and get their affairs together for their retirement in their 50s, but they aren't looking at retirement homes & incontinence products. They may look at downsizing their home to a smaller home.

 

Your young age and comments are a bit off color and demonstrative of age discrimination against those who happen to be older than you. Try not being so adolescent. However, people tend to learn about the history of video games and such when they get into college and if you get into a video game design degree (and closely related degrees), you'll learn about Atari in video game history much like a subject covered in art history course sequence. There is even programs on Amazon Prime Video on the subject. 

 

You just can't expect grade school to teach it. 

 

I'm in my 50s.

I will make sure to caption my future posts on this subject with smilies, just so you can get the jokes. 🙂

[GraffitiTavern]

10 hours ago, Lord Mushroom said:

In a prospect for potential Atari investors in 2021, it said that the logo was recognized by 80%, though.

I would say that's good evidence to my point then. A lot of the mistaken identity problems of the 80s/90s are no longer even relevant today. The only one I hear commonly is Pole Position.

[GraffitiTavern]

9 hours ago, Matt_B said:

retirement homes

Atari Social Security Hotels*

[Matt_B]

24 minutes ago, GraffitiTavern said:

Atari Social Security Hotels*

I'm glad someone gets it.

[Rodney Hester]

9 hours ago, GraffitiTavern said:

Atari Social Security Hotels*

Will they supply Atari Social Speaker HATS when you check in?

[+S.D.]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:09 AM, Lord Mushroom said:

I think you should go for a console with wider appeal. Genesis Mini, SNES Classic or Retro-Bit Super Retro-Cade are better options in my opinion. Welcome to the forum by the way.

Thanks for the welcome!  I've actually lurked for many years, and only actually made the account when I wanted to buy a Harmony Encore cartridge, and even then didn't post until the AA acquisition.

 

Regarding the appeal of modern era mini-consoles, actually that's specifically why I would rather not go for one of those.  Those are even more likely to walk off, even just the controllers.  Also, the most common 2600 carts are still basically dirt cheap and could be replaced a couple of times a year at the same cost as replacing dishes, linens, soaps, etc.  I could keep a small tub of replacement carts in the storage shed on the property where extra supplies are stored, and they would probably be just fine as long as they are kept dry.  Same is true for replacement controllers, which are more expensive to replace if broken/lost/taken.  Sure, cost of replacements can be charged to the renter, but I still have to keep replacements stocked.  Plus I don't live anywhere near it, and work through a property management partner, so it's easier to say "just make sure there are like 10 games out without duplicates, and tell me if a controller needs repair/replacement".  Seems perfect for this situation.  Honestly actual hardware would be fine too, but the new one solves the HDMI situation.

[zzip]

23 hours ago, guppy said:

• Bentley Bear (Atari) (Kindof a generic bear... I guess that's it from Atari's coin-op legacy? Pretty much everything else is a spaceship or a tank)
• Sir Square of Adventure (but he's just a square.  The dragons ARE good and Atari and of the era AND unique; they're arguably the best Atari has.)

It's generally agreed that Bentley Bear is the most mascot-ready character in the Atari (SA) portfolio.

 

The characters in Adventure could have potential if they were fleshed out more in sequels.   I'm sure "Sir Square" would have developed into a real character and the dragons would become less duck-like.   Another one with potential would have been SwordQuest.  The comics that came with those games established characters and lore that could have been used to build a SwordQuest franchise  (even if the first games were weak)

 

One problem is Atari relied too much on licensed characters back then:  Indiana Jones, ET, Superman, Bugs Bunny, Road Runner-  though some of them were owned by Warner like Atari was.   But now they can't use them.

 

But they did pick up a new villain mascot recently:  Evil Otto!    Looking forward to the Bentley Bear VS Evil Otto game, with cameo appearances by the Bat!    

[Lord Mushroom]

19 minutes ago, zzip said:

I'm sure "Sir Square" would have developed into a real character

He could have had a very square jaw or something.

[Lord Mushroom]

34 minutes ago, S.D. said:

Regarding the appeal of modern era mini-consoles, actually that's specifically why I would rather not go for one of those.  Those are even more likely to walk off, even just the controllers.

The 2600+ is worth more, if they are stealing for financial purposes, though. It sounds like you want to buy the 2600+ because you personally prefer it, not because it is best for business. But it is none of my business.

[Wildstar]

14 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I'm in my 50s.

I will make sure to caption my future posts on this subject with smilies, just so you can get the jokes. 🙂

Fair enough. I'm relieved that you meant it as a joke and not seriously or were some petulant adolescent making a ridiculous Crack against 50+ year olds. I am sure that many 50+ year olds, there are shifts in priorities.