Another eye-melting SNES mockup

[+bent_pin]

Can you put this in a ROM? I'd love to see it on my console.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

17 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Can you put this in a ROM? I'd love to see it on my console.

Depends, can you pay me?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

2 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

Depends, can you pay me?

What's your price?

[+bent_pin]

4 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

Depends, can you pay me?

For a small demo? Are you really serious?

[jeffythedragonslayer]

2 minutes ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

What's your price?

The weight of the kool aid guy in gold.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

2 minutes ago, jeffythedragonslayer said:

The weight of the kool aid guy in gold.

So the current price of gold today is $1929 per ounce. The Kool Aid guy isn't real so that would put his weight at 0 ounces.

 

0 x $1929 = $0.

 

Would you like that in the form of a check, money order, or a gift card?

[Mittens0407]

1 minute ago, TrekkiesUnite118 said:

The Kool Aid guy isn't real so that would put his weight at 0 ounces.

He actually sadly passed away. A few guys came around and drank all the Kool Aid.

[Mittens0407]

50 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Can you put this in a ROM? I'd love to see it on my console.

👍

 

(NOTE TO GATEKEEPERS AND ELITISTS: Unless you yourselves have previously converted PNGs into SNES ROMs, you have no authority and thus cannot critique me or my methods)

[jerseystyle]

37 minutes ago, Mittens0407 said:

He actually sadly passed away. A few guys came around and drank all the Kool Aid.

 

[Razzie.P]

I'm not really sure I understand what all these "Kirk threads" are doing, and why so much effort to argue about them.   I'm not taking any sides or anything silly like that, I just don't get it.  To me, it seems all kinds of wonky and pointless from all angles.  Like...

 

 

 

Kirk:  Check out this SNES racing game mock up that someone should totally do on the SNES since it can totally do it if someone just would.  Also, everyone is ignored!

 

 

 

Everyone else except one:  You're ruining the internet!  You've opened a seal that's gonna bring the apocalypses!  Dooooommmm......

 

 

That one:  Kirk is so dreamy  😍

 

 

So yeah, I don't get it.

[Mittens0407]

6 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

Everyone else except one:  You're ruining the internet!  You've opened a seal that's gonna bring the apocalypses!  Dooooommmm......

You are misrepresenting me good sir! I used four O's in 'doom', not five!

Cease this behavior or I will be forced to go about my day as usual!

[jeffythedragonslayer]

Yeah, the end is near.  Welp, I want to get back to watching Neon Genesis Evangelion.

 

cya-nigh

[+bent_pin]

Y'all got any more of them nuts?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

19 minutes ago, Razzie.P said:

I'm not really sure I understand what all these "Kirk threads" are doing, and why so much effort to argue about them.   I'm not taking any sides or anything silly like that, I just don't get it.  To me, it seems all kinds of wonky and pointless from all angles.  Like...

 

 

 

Kirk:  Check out this SNES racing game mock up that someone should totally do on the SNES since it can totally do it if someone just would.  Also, everyone is ignored!

 

 

 

Everyone else except one:  You're ruining the internet!  You've opened a seal that's gonna bring the apocalypses!  Dooooommmm......

 

 

That one:  Kirk is so dreamy  😍

 

 

So yeah, I don't get it.

It's more that he goes around shitting on other consoles homebrew scenes while begging the SNES scene to make demos for him to use as ammunition in his personal console war. To add insult to injury, the demos he's demanding they make for him most of the time aren't really feasible to work on the hardware or just flat out beg the question "Why?". When he gets the reaction you'd expect from that kind of behavior, or god forbid people suggest he take the time to learn how to do it himself, he explodes.

[Wayler]

Never mind the cancer-inducing, eye-melting images, I'm more worried about the brain-melting words and concepts by the author.

[jeffythedragonslayer]

4 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

I'm not really sure I understand what all these "Kirk threads" are doing, and why so much effort to argue about them.   I'm not taking any sides or anything silly like that, I just don't get it.  To me, it seems all kinds of wonky and pointless from all angles.  Like...

 

 

 

Kirk:  Check out this SNES racing game mock up that someone should totally do on the SNES since it can totally do it if someone just would.  Also, everyone is ignored!

 

 

 

Everyone else except one:  You're ruining the internet!  You've opened a seal that's gonna bring the apocalypses!  Dooooommmm......

 

 

That one:  Kirk is so dreamy  😍

 

 

So yeah, I don't get it.

Ok, now that I'm done watching anime I'll explain it:

 

Kirk is actually the wizard Agahnim.

 

Now, where's my crystal of D8?  That was comfy...

[Tanooki]

So now I find this very interesting.

 

Honestly (or humorously) asking for this mock up to be made into a legit SNES demo to try on a kit/emulator happens.

Jeffy then says he'd do it for pay

THen he jumps to the kool aid man, which I used as a joke but earlier mentioned drinking the kool-aid of Kirk to think this stuff is real.

 

Sooo.... are we quietly admitting that it's bs?  Seems like it.

 

@Razzie.P  He showed up initially under the guise of being in good faith and wanting to talk up things to perhaps attempt in showing new ideas of what the SNES could do, or possibly could do.  There was also the classic my favorite is this yours sucks throw back stuff people enjoy in small doses for the 16bit console wars of the US.  That was fine, but slowly he started making up these videos using a mix of reality and game maker, passing off mock ups as totally doable stuff.  As people using good technical knowledge (trekkie, etc) or basic knowledge from years of working with emulators developers in test and other fashion (myself etc) who get enough but may not articulate it as well as a coder saw the cracks.  We tried to be nice, we tried to explain what could and could not work, in time he got more angry, pushy, started tearing up existing threads with non-sense and not just making his own alone.  As people get tired of that, they'd start to nitpick every flaw, start making a few slights or half pun barbs.  Eventually he started banning (ignoring )people from being seen, including AA moderators in that, and started to mock even more posts, make more snotty comments, directly but not reply to some of our posts form his ban list showing we're ignored but he still clicks to read.  It devolved from there.  At this rate this entire section is basically Kirk's SNES delusion forum more or less with few posts escaping the fantasy.  That's why we're at this, pissed off, and fed up because no one can stay on track for long.

 

This shit needs to be 100% moved, ALL the posts, into the homebrew section if he isn't going to be removed.  These mockups which in fact partially could be done, and largely can't be done, at least could be discussed in a development forum with other developers who might even take a stab at it.  Right now he won't, he claims he can't do it and the tools suck, so he just pokes, prods, and harasses others to try and do it for him while getting angry with the pushback which in turn has had him banned from multiple game forums, discussion platforms (reddit spaces, discord spaces, etc) and so on.  That's it in a nut shell, if you want the full effect read the various posts throughout this year, then look up Inceptional at the snes dev area among others.  The level of entitlement is something else.

[CPUWIZ]

What kind of medicine is currently in short supply, that causes this behavior?

 

Does anyone actually believe that they can ignore or what you guys incorrectly call "ban", a moderator?

 

 I have various landmarks for sale, at bargain prices!

[Mittens0407]

1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

Does anyone actually believe that they can ignore or what you guys incorrectly call "ban", a moderator?

According to Kirk's "ignore list" it appears so.

1 hour ago, CPUWIZ said:

What kind of medicine is currently in short supply, that causes this behavior?

I'll need some eye drops. Too much eye-melting in one day. 

[Tanooki]

According to Punisher you can, as I asked him and he can't write the dude, he's cut off all the same as we are.  Seems to be one hell of a hole in the staff tools to allow that to fly.

[digdugnate]

My interest was more piqued when I got to thinking about how much Kool-Aid the Kool-Aid man actually does hold.

 

Turns out, folks have already pondered this!

 

https://www.vox.com/2015/1/29/7944895/kool-aid-man-brick-wall#:~:text=If we assume Kool-Aid,Aid Man contains 583%2C296 calories.

 

 

[Tanooki]

@digdugnate But the next piece of math we need crunched, because if I did this myself it would break the intent of the thread here like others, is even that enough kool-aid to make those trippy goombas and alucard into a fully functioning SNES game we can all play?  And again keeping with tradition, when the hell are you going to have it finished?

[Wayler]

But how much kool would a Kool-Aid aid if a Kool-Aid could aid kool? 

 

FYI: as this literal mock-up is made in mode 0 typing and posted on the SNES subforum, it should run fine on original hardware. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Wayler

[JurassicDope]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:06 AM, turboxray said:

I think the issue with Krik's idea of mode 0 is his use of limited colors paired with trying to distract from it (hide it) with transparencies and such (his shmup levels/mockup.. especially the "ice level". But some of his mode 0 demos are straight up ugly in color usage - like his "9 boss" mockup). He wants all the parallax, but desperately wants to hide the color limitations that come along with it. I mean, the idea is sound. It's the premise of all graphic tricks; to disguise the limitations of the effects. But trying to stretch mode 0 into an entire level? That's a tall order. From what he was able to come up with, it didn't meet expectations IMO. I'm not saying it's impossible - just mostly improbable. You need a really capable artist, with good technical skills as well. That, all against what the SNES is already capable of.. especially when color fidelity (detail) being orders of magnitude less in mode 0, you need a really good reason to use it. I doubt many want to put in that kind of effort. We'll see who picks up that challenge 😁

  

Otherwise, yeah I see mode 0 more of a "compliment" to other modes as its base use case; it's useful for some parts mid screen. But I mean that's pretty much a given (and a couple of games do IIRC). And I guess more expanded/fleshed out with actual full screen use here-and-there as small "transitional" parts in a stage - but don't give the gamer long enough to scrutinize it haha.

 

 

 Mode 3/4 8bpp modes are useful too. I think throwing up hi-color "digitized" screens are kinda boring - scrolling or not (even for my own demos that do this on PCE, but those are done for research in understanding how pixels blend in hi-res mode and how the color looks), but maybe a giant face or whatever for a boss in a shmup or platformer. You know, something that's large enough but doesn't make you sacrifice your entire vram usage haha (and this is how I plan to use hi-res/hi-color mode on the PCE too because it 1:1 has the same space requirement as snes 8bpp graphics). But it's the same as with mode 0 though, using 8bpp REALLY has to be pronounced.. it has to look above and beyond what 4bpp can do. Not just a little.. but seriously above and beyond night-and-day difference. 

 

 For the record I'm no stranger to using 2bpp graphics with expanded palettes. I've adapted some Amiga style tricks of (ab)using hardware planar graphics for overlapping animating pixels for layers (parallax), using color reloading down the screen, and even transparency effects... all on the PCE for its planar tiles. SNES has the exact same planar format of PCE for tiles, so a lot of those same tricks can be ported over to the SNES. I'd like to see more exploration in that, to get more complex transparency effects that are not possible on the SNES and/or additional parallax effects (without having to drop down into mode 0), on the SNES. Mode 0 and 8bpp modes are interesting, but IMO they're much more corner/edge use-case scenarios. I'd go so far as to say 8bpp mode for large enemies or boss is more practical and useful than mode 0 as a mid-screen effect. But planar graphic manipulation doesn't force a huge restriction on color usage (mode 0) or dramatically eat your vram (8bpp modes), but it does give you some additional capabilities not possible on the snes. AFAIK planar plane manipulation isn't an area anyone is currently touching on for the SNES (SA chip would be great for this too).

More Translucency effects / parallax layers for the SNES, eh??? That's OP! Planar manipulation sounds like a cutting edge technique, is there a video of it out on YouTube? Sounds like it would really be useful for PCE too.

 

For the most part we've seen the majority of Snes bg modes as "use case" scenarios, to accommodate the overarching gameplay styles of Mode 1 and 7. It's not difficult to imagine making any traditional kind of game with any of the modes (like a platformer), but to really make them worth doing over mode 3 or 7? I admit I haven't really put much thought into, can find something spicy there...

 

An easy way to find artists adjusted to mode 0 art would perhaps be looking into the Gameboy Color scene, as I'm sure they've accumulated a lot of imagination working on those 2bpp gfx with 15bit rgb (or even Kirk himself, he's pretty good). Also certain art styles can lend itself well, like a Pokemon or M&L: Super Star Saga kind of rendering.

 

4 fully free planes of parallax is pretty big. May need to be careful not to make the background too busy with parallax, distracting from gameplay. Using one of the layers like a very "On-Screen" hud, or saving it for boss would be nice. I would have fun pulling off something like that scene from the SFC game S.O.S. lol. Maybe I can mockup something that tries to keep a 16bit look with 4 2bpp parallax layers...

 

Prerendered gfx on the other hand would be somewhat tough in mode 0, coordinating colors would be tricky. Though 8bpp would be a great fit for that graphic style. Imagine doing a Survival Horror like how GBC handled Alone In The Dark, still screens, but with either Snes's 8bpp or your Tg16's high res method 💪

[Kirk_Johnston]

6 hours ago, JurassicDope said:

More Translucency effects / parallax layers for the SNES, eh??? That's OP! Planar manipulation sounds like a cutting edge technique, is there a video of it out on YouTube? Sounds like it would really be useful for PCE too.

 

For the most part we've seen the majority of Snes bg modes as "use case" scenarios, to accommodate the overarching gameplay styles of Mode 1 and 7. It's not difficult to imagine making any traditional kind of game with any of the modes (like a platformer), but to really make them worth doing over mode 3 or 7? I admit I haven't really put much thought into, can find something spicy there...

 

An easy way to find artists adjusted to mode 0 art would perhaps be looking into the Gameboy Color scene, as I'm sure they've accumulated a lot of imagination working on those 2bpp gfx with 15bit rgb (or even Kirk himself, he's pretty good). Also certain art styles can lend itself well, like a Pokemon or M&L: Super Star Saga kind of rendering.

 

4 fully free planes of parallax is pretty big. May need to be careful not to make the background too busy with parallax, distracting from gameplay. Using one of the layers like a very "On-Screen" hud, or saving it for boss would be nice. I would have fun pulling off something like that scene from the SFC game S.O.S. lol. Maybe I can mockup something that tries to keep a 16bit look with 4 2bpp parallax layers...

 

Prerendered gfx on the other hand would be somewhat tough in mode 0, coordinating colors would be tricky. Though 8bpp would be a great fit for that graphic style. Imagine doing a Survival Horror like how GBC handled Alone In The Dark, still screens, but with either Snes's 8bpp or your Tg16's high res method 💪

Yeah, I think on SNES the secret is finding novel ways of sneaking the various modes and lesser-used effects liberally throughout each level and such, and multiple of them at the same time.

 

Like in a SNES platformer where the player is a security guard or thief walking through a room full of 8bpp paintings and shining his yellow tinted colour window/shape mask torch in one of eight directions (or more with smooth transitions) looking for thieves in the shadows, then into another primarily Mode 0 room with loads of overlapping parallax and crates and rare artifacts everywhere where the thieves and guard constanlty move behind and in front of all the crates and stuff as the guard searches for the thieves, and then having a later section in the same room switch mode and have part of the floor violently undulating using Mode 2 as charges that the thieves placed to blow up one of the glass cases go off and shakes the whole room, mabye even with Mode 7 in the top half of the screen to rock the room smoothly at the same time, which then awakens a few multi-coloured semi-transparent museum ghosts that start flying around the room and smashing everything as the lights flicker on and off, then a lantern falls and smashes on the floor, setting the room on fire, and the whole scene starts to glow using some fixed colour effect or whatever and slowly wave and ripple using HDMA, and so on.

 

If you have a SNES game that's already striking with great art design and gameplay to start, and have some very cool effects and cool moments happening one after other, I think the potential is there to do some stunning stuff. Rare did much of this in principle in its DKC games, which are some of the most impressive games from that generation, and Genesis developers tended to do this kind of showy thing a lot more moment to moment, possibly to overcome the colour and background layer limitations compared to the SNES there, the Batman and Robin game is a great example, and I think there's even more that could be done on SNES in modern times in the right hands rather than just the typical three full background layers and little else. I'm hoping to see a lot more stuff like that from SNES in the future.

 

Note: That's just a totally random sequence of examples I thought about as I typed, so not to be taken too directly and analysed and scrutinised to any great depth.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston