Need guidance from community. Sold Atari 2600 on Ebay, and...

[classicgamesnut]

     Sold an Atari 2600 / VCS on Ebay last week along with a bundle of games, controllers, and a coax adapter.  I confirmed numerous times (to hopefully avoid a situation like this) that everything worked the very day it was packed.  Received a formal return request from Ebay via the buyer today, and it sounds like the buyer just doesn't know how to hook up a vintage Atari unit.  The complaints didn't make sense.  "No light or sound."  HUH?

     Asked for a description of how the buyer was attempting to hook it up to a compatible TV using the coax adapter provided, and have yet to hear back, but the troubling thing is that the list of recourse options provided all were in the buyer's favor.  It looks I have no path to formally dispute this return request.

     Anyone else been here, and can point the way forward?  Getting through to Ebay staff is an ordeal in itself.

 

     Larry

     

[LatchKeyKid]

The BEST resolution is if it is returned in the same condition you sent it in (and complete obviously).   Fortunately and unfortunately (I've been ripped off both as a seller and buyer on ebay since joining in the late 90s), the policies are very stacked in favor of buyers whether scrupulous or unscrupulous or just plain stupid.  Just ask the buyer to ship it in the same box with the same packaging and make sure you video record the opening if/when you receive it back (and if possible screenshot the recorded weight with the shipping company) just in case they try to get the money back AND keep the product by sending you a brick in the mail or keeping a part they needed/wanted for free while sending back the rest.   Then leave appropriate unemotional factual detailed feedback if it actually does work though IIRC you can't leave negative feedback for a buyer on Ebay unless they changed that in recent years.  If you write "positive" feedback emotionally warning off sellers then it'll just be removed so just stick to dry facts.   Sorry to sound overly pessimistic; does the buyer have a very short or troubled buying history/feedback both as left for the buyer and left by the buyer?   Sometimes that can give you an indication of how the transaction might go.

Edited September 14, 2023 by LatchKeyKid

[kennybrooks]

You should just go ahead and accept the return.  Ebay has already counted it 'against' you, no matter how you resolve the issue.  Ebay sides with the buyer with everything now, it does you no good to talk to customer service, you may find one rep that will agree with you, but agreeing with you and actually telling you what the correct options you have are two different things.  Unfortunately, ebay has become a buyers paradise, able to return anything without any recourse and abuse the system.  If you can find anywhere else to sell, I would greatly suggest that.  Once a buyer does open any return case, the seller's items are shown in the very ending of any best match search (which most buyers still use).  Check any items you are selling logged in as yourself, they will show near the top most likely, log out and try the same search and see your items near the end of the search.  Ebay is criminal really, what used to be a fair market has turned into a market that many buyers abuse and encourage others to do the same.

[+bent_pin]

Few key things:

1) You are required to allow buyers to return anything, but be vocal with the buyer if it sounds like they are trying some shenanigans.

2) Only message the buyer through the return so those messages are part of the return case. If the buyer messages you directly, reply through the return and quote them.

3) I hope you took pictures of the serial number of the 2600 and included them in the auction as well as pictures of it working.

4) Just send them a label, it does not mean that you accept the return and it buys you a few days on your end to file an appeal.

5) If they broke it, swapped it out for a different unit, or kept some of the accessories, you can file an appeal and prepare an affidavit to that affect. This will only work if the issue is obvious and is contrary to the pictures and description in the auction.

 

I've loads of experience getting one up on criminal buyers who abuse ebay. If you need help with the affidavit let me know, but if you get it back complete and in the same condition, count it as an 'L', block the buyer, and move on. You can only get away with leaving "VINTAGE VIDEO GAME, accepted buyer's return, received as sent" as feedback.

 

I had a buyer pick up several lots of RAM for gold salvage, a suspiciously large number and now I prevent that large of a purchase. They claimed it was different than the picture and we had a heck of a argument as the return shipping was astronomical. When they sent it back the sent back a much lower grade product that clearly didn't match what I sent out, but they did send a ton of it. In the end ebay gave them a refund, but reversed that decision in response to my appeal. They removed the negative feedback and the buyer cursed me out by messenger. Ebay removed their account and they never contacted me to claim their crap. I waited 30 days and even asked my Sherrif to be sure that I wasn't breaking the law by not automatically returning it after the refund. Sooo I ended up with a lot a free RAM, albeit a lower grade. Do not expect this outcome, but it can happen occasionally.

 

Another time a buyer bought a bunch of scrap, stripped all the gold off, did a piss poor job, and demanded a refund. I told them I would happily give a return for any unprocessed portion. They said that they processed it all. I sent them a label anyway and told them that I would reject their return if they insisted on returning a product that they intentionally broke and could note return in the same condition. They said they'd send it back just to cause me the hassle of dealing with it. Then they called ebay and convinced them that it was a hazmat issue to ship it, so ebay refunded them immediately. Quick appeal, no affidavit required, refund reversed in my favor.

 

In the future, scan a buyer's feedback and consider their time on ebay and their location before shipping. You can always cancel an order if you have to. I cancel one or two orders a month. Just the other day a 1-day-old account tried to buy a $1200 item off me and have it shipped to Japan. Well that dog just ain't gonna hunt, cancelled and blocked. Last month a buyer with 2 out of 10 feedback in the past 30 days were negative because they were ripping off people buying from them. Same deal, cancelled and blocked. I always message them first, then cancel and block them immediately. If they leave negative feedback for an item that was cancelled, ebay will remove it. Also, if a buyer or a seller ever leaves you negative feedback in a positive feedback slot, you can have it removed under ebay's feedback abuse policy. Also, you can have feedback removed for items that you've refunded.

 

Final note, if you see positive feedback for a buyer that's just "--" that means a seller left negative feedback and ebay removed it.

[LatchKeyKid]

1 hour ago, bent_pin said:

Final note, if you see positive feedback for a buyer that's just "--" that means a seller left negative feedback and ebay removed it.

 

Thanks.  I wasn't aware of that.  I don't sell my unused hobby stuff on ebay anymore (specifically because of their lax buyer policies) but it's good to know just in case.

[classicgamesnut]

     Thanks for all the helpful info and commiserating.  Disgusting situation.

     Here's an update...don't know how I missed this the first time around!

 

     The picture of the Atari with all the games and accessories is the exact unit and photo I posted for auction on Ebay and sent to the buyer. 

     The other two pictures are the ones the buyer submitted with the return request.

     Maybe YOU will spot the problem immediately.  I didn't.

[+bent_pin]

50/50 The markings make it clear that it is your unit (paint on raised bezel), but the broken switch is a problem. Are you sure that it was not damage in shipping, and was it insured? It's all of 5 minutes work to swap the cap on one of these. Did you post more pictures with the auction? Post them all here.

[+x=usr(1536)]

One other thing: in the seller's photos, the machine is connected to power, but not a TV, and the power switch is flipped to the on position.  My guess is that the buyer did this so that he could claim that there's no power LED lighting up when the machine is turned on, figuring that the likelihood of an eBay employee knowing that the machine doesn't have a power LED is slim to nil.  Connecting it to a TV would give the game away, though.

 

Any idea as to what's going on with the connector on the power adapter?  Was it heat-shrinked or similar to prevent the plug head coming out of the end?  I realise that it uses interchangeable plug heads to account for different jack sizes, but that's just unusual.

[+bent_pin]

1 minute ago, x=usr(1536) said:

One other thing: the machine is connected to power, but not a TV, and the power switch is flipped to the on position.  My guess is that the buyer did this so that he could claim that there's no power LED lighting up when the machine is turned on, figuring that the likelihood of an eBay employee knowing that the machine doesn't have a power LED are slim to nil.

 

What's going on with the connector on the power adapter?  Was it heat-shrinked or similar to prevent the plug head coming out of the end?

and no cartridge inserted

[classicgamesnut]

     Heard back from the buyer.  Buyer says that the game select switch lever was floating loose inside the cellophane I'd wrapped the console in.  Maybe this is a legit case of shipping damage, but it would have taken considerable force not only to break off the game select lever but also mash the game reset lever permanently down.

     I pointed out to the buyer that there was no cartridge inserted and that the TV (assuming it's more modern) won't even display garbage on the screen without a cartridge.

     I did some internal repairs on this unit when it went out, so if I get it back I'll know pretty quickly if something shady happened.

     As for the power adapter tip, I not only heat-shrinked but epoxied the interchangeable / reversible tip to make it "idiot proof."

     Wish I'd taken more photos...big lesson learned.

[+bent_pin]

12 minutes ago, classicgamesnut said:

Wish I'd taken more photos...big lesson learned

Sometimes lessons cost us money. Did you ship ground advantage or priority? Priority has $100 insurance automatically. 

 

Glad to hear that you are considering both sides. Stern but fair is important. I take an additional photo with the lot, showing the serial number, along with the printed label.

 

All auctions should show the top and bottom of the unit, along with the unit working with a cart that should also be included with the lot. Always ship priority or with insurance. 

 

Let me know if you need a new board for that case. I have several.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Is it possible... that buyer might have swapped out the internals? I mean, you can have pictures of the outer case and SN sticker all you want. But if you don't have records of the inside of the system, then it would be difficult to know if the buyer swapped the guts.

[+bent_pin]

Make sure the buyer can send the switch back. They may be lying about it if they don't. That is the only way that I can think of to prove your case, if you actually have one.

[classicgamesnut]

     It crossed my mind that the buyer may have swapped the board, and I don't have any photos of the original board.  BUT--I replaced the TIA chip and socket plus several capacitors, and soldered the RF cable directly to the board and bypassed the on-board jack.  (Helped a LOT with the picture quality.)  So if the buyer did swap the board, he'd have buckets of time involved in copying my handiwork.

     I did ship it priority, as I most often do, but have never had to file a claim.  How does that work?  Fifty notarized forms, and six to eight months?

[+bent_pin]

Send the label but do not accept the return.

Ask the buyer to use the original box and packing material. Not critical but it helps.

Wait for it to come back.

Check the board.

If it's not yours, file an appeal with ebay. You have a 50/50 chance on the appeal.

If it is your board, accept the return, refund the buyer, and file a claim with the post office. You'll need the original tracking number and the ebay transaction report showing how much was paid. Take it into your post office to file a claim. They will issue you a check for up to $100 for the item, less the shipping cost. You have to turn over the damaged item, so it may or may not be worth it.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

14 hours ago, bent_pin said:

Send the label but do not accept the return.

Ask the buyer to use the original box and packing material. Not critical but it helps.

Wait for it to come back.

Check the board.

If it's not yours, file an appeal with ebay. You have a 50/50 chance on the appeal.

If it is your board, accept the return, refund the buyer, and file a claim with the post office. You'll need the original tracking number and the ebay transaction report showing how much was paid. Take it into your post office to file a claim. They will issue you a check for up to $100 for the item, less the shipping cost. You have to turn over the damaged item, so it may or may not be worth it.

Interestingly a few years ago I had a 5200 sent to me for services and it arrived with pretty much every section of plastic haven't been broken in the process. The box sounded like LEGOs when it was picked up. I took video of my opening the box when I received it and notated in the video everything that I found broken in shipping. Apparently the owner of the console had placed $300 in insurance on their console. They only had to provide my video and a few detailed pics to file a claim with their local post master. They had a check from the PO in about a week for the entire Insurance amount. So while I've not had to file a claim myself, it didn't seem to be that big of a process for my client to get it all taken care of on their end?

 

 

[+bent_pin]

2 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Interestingly a few years ago I had a 5200 sent to me for services and it arrived with pretty much every section of plastic haven't been broken in the process. The box sounded like LEGOs when it was picked up. I took video of my opening the box when I received it and notated in the video everything that I found broken in shipping. Apparently the owner of the console had placed $300 in insurance on their console. They only had to provide my video and a few detailed pics to file a claim with their local post master. They had a check from the PO in about a week for the entire Insurance amount. So while I've not had to file a claim myself, it didn't seem to be that big of a process for my client to get it all taken care of on their end?

 

 

No, it's quite easy, but the more proof and paperwork that you have, the easier it is. I have had one claim rejected for lack of before and after documentation, but that was probably because the buyer was raising a stink on their end. When a specific amount was not specified and priority insurance is claimed, they do require a receipt as proof of value.

[classicgamesnut]

     Thanks for all the guidance here.  Sent a label to the buyer along with a note that I wanted EVERYTHING back and would issue a refund upon receipt.  Have not heard from the buyer today.  We'll see what happens.  If it doesn't arrive by October 5, Ebay will excuse the refund (so they say.)