faq Verified Atari 2600+ FAQ - WIP

[shane857]

11 hours ago, LS650 said:

I like manuals.  I don't like reading instructions off a smartphone or laptop.  If I'm worried about the environment I can find far better ways to have a positive influence.

I agree. Having the manual is all part of the experience/nostalgia. I only use a pdf manual if the original instructions are too small to read. Like some of the epyx games

[tradyblix]

Oh it's not at all the same thing. I mean the carts are these beautiful things that remind us of inserting them when we are younger they are absolutely the physical representation of the game and they have art on them that's in color most of the time. Meanwhile there's nothing really nostalgic about these manuals to me. I threw them away back in the '80s and I throw them away now. and I'm sorry that that seems to offend you.

 

Thankfully we live in a world where people can have different opinions.

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[larsvonhier]

9 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

So carts are a waste of plastic and chips, when we just could load all games from SD-card?

Totally different topic: Speaking of SD cards - I recently found the right type of SD card holder and retrofit it on the unpopulated footprint on the 2600+ main PCB. Has anyone found info on how to format/partition SD cards and what files would have to be put onto it to get the 2600+s attention?

If anybody is interested I can provide the part number from Würth Electronics that Plaion/Atari seem to have foreseen to be mounted...

[tradyblix]

19 hours ago, Glorkbot said:

There’s no “waste” from paper

manuals if you never throw them away.

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but it's just how I feel. It is wasteful to print them. we have a limited number of trees in the world and they're being destroyed. Go look at the condition of the Amazon rainforest in 2024 compared to 40 years ago. Look at Satellite imagery. Think about it for a bit. I know with climate change there are ostriches out there that want to put their heads in the sand and pretend it's not real. I am not one of those people and I'm going to be outspoken about it. 

 

Manuals for the 2600 have never been worthwhile for me. They're usually black and white and just a couple pages of info that we have the internet for now. and while I understand collecting game boxes makes a bit more sense - I got quite a few myself over the last 2 months that I put up on my wall as art, I also don't really want those too. 

 

I know alot of people keep packaging materials, but I am not one of them.

 

Anyway. It's not really a big deal. Nobody is preventing anyone from having their manuals. You can even print your own manuals if you want. That makes more sense if it's purpose built for your needs than making 25,000 of them where 90 percent get read once (if lucky) and trashed, IMO. 

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[+bent_pin]

43 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but it's just how I feel. It is wasteful to print them. we have a limited number of trees in the world and they're being destroyed. Go look at the condition of the Amazon rainforest in 2024 compared to 40 years ago. Look at Satellite imagery. Think about it for a bit. I know with climate change there are ostriches out there that want to put their heads in the sand and pretend it's not real. I am not one of those people and I'm going to be outspoken about it. 

While there is a lot of paper waste and paper plants do provide a fair amount of pollution, both of these have been dramatically reduced since the 1980s. Trees used for printing paper are SPF pulp trees, they grow fast suck up a lot of CO2 in the process. These trees are planted specifically for the process and this does not contribute to the deforestation of the US and Canada. While deforestation of the rainforest is a crime against humanity, it is not for the making of paper products. The rainforests are being cut down for plantations, ranching, oil, and mining. That should stop, but it is not germane to the argument that you posed. In fact, the plastic used in the cartridge and the coolant used in the transportation of the same are much more likely to come from the rainforest than the pulp used in the paper to make the manual.

 

I'm all for lowering environmental impact, but if you're actually serious about it, sell your 2600+ and get a gamestation pro that only runs ROMs.

[+bent_pin]

@tradyblix I'm not sure why the last comment would result in a sad emoji from you. I did my best to keep strictly scientific and not personal. You wanted to shame others for wanting paper manuals using similar environmental arguments. Good for the goose and all that.

[tradyblix]

Because you dismissed me by telling me to go play ROMS, You're dismissive of any of my concerns, you're telling me I'm wanting to shame others (???) and that's just BS.

 

Also, I don't believe you. I know that the pulp and paper industry, which makes products such as office and catalog paper, glossy paper, tissue and paper-based packaging, uses between 33-40% of all industrial wood traded globally. That's a huge amount that contributes to what we've been doing to the planet recently. Reducing that for frivolous things like paper manuals for 4k games that everyone has 40 years of experience playing already, that already have online manuals and resources for, and that are just going to sit in someones drawer for a few years until they get THROWN OUT is a good thing. 

 

And no, carts are not the same thing. Carts actually are required to play the game in a cart-based system. They eventually will be recycled. Hell, even AA recycles them. Telling me that's the same argument is totally disingenuous. 

 

I have zero power to alter how anyone behaves. All I can do is advocate my position. I've done that. You disagree, and stated your points, and then you made some nasty personal attacks like saying that I'm shaming folks. All I'm doing is saying why I don't care for stuff. Not telling other people to play roms, not accusing other people of shaming folks, nothing like that.

 

BTW 3 other people have done the "Go play roms" thing recently and one did just TODAY. I'm tired of that crap. I'm into the 2600+ for a reason. Stop belittling people and telling them not to do their hobby. It's not cool.

 

Look, I don't agree with you, let's leave it alone. I've had enough BS from this forum and the people on here over the last 24 hours. Especially you and Thomas. 

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[+bent_pin]

4 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

Because you dismissed me by telling me to go play ROMS, You're dismissive of any of my concerns, you're telling me I'm wanting to shame others (???) and that's just BS.

 

I have zero power to alter how anyone behaves. All I can do is advocate my position. I've done that. 

 

BTW 3 other people have done the "Go play roms" thing recently and one did just TODAY. I'm tired of that crap. I'm into the 2600+ for a reason. 

 

Look, I don't agree with you, let's leave it alone. I've had enough BS from this forum and the people on here over the last 24 hours. Especially you and Thomas. 

Welcome to the Internet, people will disagree with you on the regular. Doubly so when you tell them that they are doing something bad.

 

When you lecture someone one their environmental impact, you most certainly are attempting to shame them into changing their ways. All I did was hold you to your own standards. I did so without getting personal, I'm sorry if that offends you, as is really shouldn't. When you make a point, you should expect a counterpoint. That's how discussions work.

 

Not sure what part of my comments is BS, as you put it. If you disagree, please feel free to pose a counterpoint based on facts. If it's thought out, fact-based, and dispassionate, I will listen.

[tradyblix]

I am not attempting to shame anyone. That is a lie. I only responded to you because you asked me to explain why I was disturbed by your rude comments. 

 

And there is no need for more discussion between us. Your tone and condescending attitude is completely inappropriate for a discussion. 

 

Nobody wants to read this when they go on their weekend to look up cool info on games for 2600+, so for the second time, let's drop it. 

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[Glorkbot]

2 hours ago, tradyblix said:

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but it's just how I feel. It is wasteful to print them. we have a limited number of trees in the world and they're being destroyed. Go look at the condition of the Amazon rainforest in 2024 compared to 40 years ago. Look at Satellite imagery. Think about it for a bit. I know with climate change there are ostriches out there that want to put their heads in the sand and pretend it's not real. I am not one of those people and I'm going to be outspoken about it.

You can't read a pdf without electricity and most people still use electricity created by burning fossil fuels. So there's no special purity in using a pdf over paper. Of course electricity is used in printing things on paper too. But printing something on paper only uses power once, and then can be used power-free for the rest of eternity. A pdf uses electricity every single time you read it.

 

Also, the paper industry is not driving the deforestation of the Amazon, that's a completely different issue. Pretty sure it's the beef industry driving Amazon deforestation?

[tradyblix]

Fossil Fuels != Trees.

 

"Pretty sure it's the beef industry driving Amazon deforestation?" just admit you don't know. 

 

If you make a post where you argue that it's okay to waste paper, that we have no issues related to the use of paper, and that using a pdf is worse than printing 10 games at 25,000 each with 250,000 pieces of paper most people with throw out... just don't.

Edited January 20 by tradyblix
consolidate posts

[tradyblix]

1 minute ago, tradyblix said:

Fossil Fuels != Trees.

"Pretty sure it's the beef industry driving Amazon deforestation?" just admit you don't know. 

 

If you make a post where you argue that it's okay to waste paper, that we have no issues related to the use of paper, and that using a pdf is worse than printing 10 games at 25,000 each with 250,000 pieces of paper most people with throw out... just don't.

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[Glorkbot]

1 minute ago, tradyblix said:

Fossil Fuels != Trees.

I know. My town actually DOES burn trees for electricity. (Wood chips, to be precise.)

[tradyblix]

1 minute ago, Glorkbot said:

I know. My town actually DOES burn trees for electricity. (Wood chips, to be precise.)

Sucks. Thank god I don't live there, we use Nuclear power, Solar Power and Wind Power for most of our electric generation where I live. 

[Glorkbot]

1 minute ago, tradyblix said:

"Pretty sure it's the beef industry driving Amazon deforestation?" just admit you don't know. 

I said "pretty sure" because I remember reading that the beef industry is the main driver of Amazon deforestation, but I didn't have the article right in front of me.

[tradyblix]

2 minutes ago, Glorkbot said:

I said "pretty sure" because I remember reading that the beef industry is the main driver of Amazon deforestation, but I didn't have the article right in front of me.

https://onetreeplanted.org/blogs/stories/deforestation-causes

 

#2 Timber logging. To support the 40 percent of Timber required for.... paper. 

 

I get it. You guys just want your manual to shove in your drawer with other junk you never use for nostalgia. Okay. I will never bring it up again. 

 

Every time I open that PDF I will worry about the electrical use derived from coal and feel guilty. You win. 

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[Glorkbot]

Just now, tradyblix said:

Sucks. Thank god I don't live there

It doesn't matter if you live there or not, it will affect you just the same. Sadly.

[Glorkbot]

Just now, tradyblix said:

https://onetreeplanted.org/blogs/stories/deforestation-causes

 

#2 Timber logging. To support the 40 percent of Timber required for.... paper. 

That article doesn't say that's what's driving deforestation in the Amazon.

[tradyblix]

2 minutes ago, Glorkbot said:

That article doesn't say that's what's driving deforestation in the Amazon.

Okay here you go: https://www.internetgeography.net/what-are-the-causes-of-deforestation-in-the-amazon/

 

 

Edited January 20 by tradyblix

[Glorkbot]

2 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

Okay here you go: https://www.internetgeography.net/what-are-the-causes-of-deforestation-in-the-amazon/

 

That article (and graph) says exactly what I said. The main thing driving amazon deforestation is the beef industry. It accounts for 80% of the deforestation of the Amazon. Logging accounts for 3%. And that's all logging, so it could be for timber (building) not for paper.

Edited January 20 by Glorkbot

[tradyblix]

Just now, Glorkbot said:

That article (and graph) says exactly what I said. The main thing driving amazon deforestation is the beef industry. It accounts for 80% of the deforestation of the Amazon.

And what do you think happens to the trees that are cleared for cattle ranching ? Any guesses ? They're burned ? or they're used for the 40 percent purpose of what all timber is used for ? paper....

 

Look what do you want me to say ? I'm wrong ? There's no environmental impact of printing worthless pieces of paper old men can look at for 5 seconds and toss in a drawer ? 

[Electric-Dreams]

And to think that this thread was supposed to be a simple collaborative FAQ for the Atari 2600+ to save people from going through 100 pages spread across 2 or 3 discussion threads ... 🤣

Guys, come on !

[Glorkbot]

3 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

 They're burned ?

Actually YES. They often burn the amazon to make the space they want for the cattle industry. They don't even bother to log it. It's crazy.

[Glorkbot]

4 minutes ago, Electric-Dreams said:

And to think that this thread was supposed to be a simple collaborative FAQ for the Atari 2600+ to save people from going through 100 pages spread across 2 or 3 discussion threads ... 🤣

Guys, come on !

Sorry. I'll try not to derail things again.

[John Stamos Mullet]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:35 PM, tradyblix said:

Because you dismissed me by telling me to go play ROMS, You're dismissive of any of my concerns, you're telling me I'm wanting to shame others (???) and that's just BS.

 

Also, I don't believe you. I know that the pulp and paper industry, which makes products such as office and catalog paper, glossy paper, tissue and paper-based packaging, uses between 33-40% of all industrial wood traded globally. That's a huge amount that contributes to what we've been doing to the planet recently. Reducing that for frivolous things like paper manuals for 4k games that everyone has 40 years of experience playing already, that already have online manuals and resources for, and that are just going to sit in someones drawer for a few years until they get THROWN OUT is a good thing. 

 

And no, carts are not the same thing. Carts actually are required to play the game in a cart-based system. They eventually will be recycled. Hell, even AA recycles them. Telling me that's the same argument is totally disingenuous. 

 

I have zero power to alter how anyone behaves. All I can do is advocate my position. I've done that. You disagree, and stated your points, and then you made some nasty personal attacks like saying that I'm shaming folks. All I'm doing is saying why I don't care for stuff. Not telling other people to play roms, not accusing other people of shaming folks, nothing like that.

 

BTW 3 other people have done the "Go play roms" thing recently and one did just TODAY. I'm tired of that crap. I'm into the 2600+ for a reason. Stop belittling people and telling them not to do their hobby. It's not cool.

 

Look, I don't agree with you, let's leave it alone. I've had enough BS from this forum and the people on here over the last 24 hours. Especially you and Thomas. 

Jesus fucking Christ. 
 

didn’t you leave forever a couple of days ago?