StoneAge (WIP)

[Trebor]

17 minutes ago, TwentySixHundred said:

It's possible to use the difficulty switch just as the original did. Having just one axe would definitely make the game harder. I could always add this once getting the core mechanics and sprites sorted.

My humble two cents here...

The reason difficulty switches are in place was to save on ROM space, back in the day, when early 2600 games were only 2-4k. Please do not leverage the difficulty switch(es), if such a feature is implemented, unless maintaining a specific ROM size for the game is crucial. 

 

Rather, please make it a selection under an option menu or selected somewhere under the title screen.  More times than not, players are unaware or forget about the difficulty switches.  Leveraging them often creates confusion over gameplay mechanics or features.

[TwentySixHundred]

Latest Build: StoneAge 20231117.a78 StoneAge 20231117.bin

 

Build_20231117

• graphics - rolling egg (KG)
• graphics - pterodactyl sprite update (KG)-WIP
• graphics - background tile colours now cycle each stage (Trebor suggestion) (AQ)-WIP
• graphics - splash screen removed (AQ) 😔
• engine   - difficulty selection on titlescreen (fdr4prez-suggestion) (Trebor-titlescreen recommendation) (AQ)-WIP

The Pterodactyl sprite and it's size are work in progress, we are thinking it should be the same size as the caveman.

 

As for the difficulty selection pressing left will select amateur and right will select pro. For now the only change is the speed of the lava rocks.

 

Also the background colour cycle will only change three times because i will need to look into a sequence of maybe day/night cycles?

 

Anyway a bit of a preview

[+fdr4prez]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:15 PM, TwentySixHundred said:

The Pterodactyl sprite and it's size are work in progress, we are thinking it should be the same size as the caveman.

yeah, from doing a google search on pterosaur sizes, they vary greatly. 

 

So i guess your pterodactyl needs to be large enough to carry away an egg, and since your egg is a bit large then the bird needs to be suitably large.  Not necessarily as large as the caveman, or maybe even larger than the caveman.  So long as the egg and pterodactyl are a nice ratio to each other, then it'd look good.

 

In the original game, you can see that the egg is held in the bird's mouth and is carried away.

 

It'd be nice to see the egg being carried away in your game.

 

If an egg just disappears, then the size of the pterodactyl isn't so important, so long as it looks good.

 

[+fdr4prez]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:15 PM, TwentySixHundred said:

As for the difficulty selection pressing left will select amateur and right will select pro. For now the only change is the speed of the lava rocks.

 

I've not played since I was a kid back in the '80s.  I can pop some batteries in to see if it still works after all these years, but i do recall that the amateur level had a few levels of progression.

 

First level is just you and the dino, so no lava and no pterosaur. 

 

Second level added the pterosuar and no lava.

 

Third level was lava and no pterodactyl.

 

fourth level was lava and pterodactyl.

 

I don't recall if it just stays like that from there on out.

 

You plan to follow that same level progression?  Your last video seems to indicate that you start on level 3 of the original game.

 

And the dino lays eggs when dizzy.  If there is already an egg available and you hit the dino, then you can typically grab that egg and one more egg before the dino recovers.  Maybe your can do that for your amateur setting, but the Pro setting would not have the dino lay eggs while dizzy.  Just to spice things up a bit.

 

I don't remember the Pro level progression.  I just know that it starts with two pterosaurs flying around, and you throw your single axe and you have to go home to get another.

[+fdr4prez]

I just found the instructions to the original game.

 

Tomy-Caveman.pdf

 

Some interesting things that i didn't recall, or that I never knew about.

 

1) I did not know (or forgot) that you if you place an egg at your home's "egg counter" position that you do not get points for it until when you placed a second egg down and that first one actually enters your home.  I guess that makes sense since the pterodactyl can take it, so you don't get points until it is protected in your cave. 

 

2) Your cave only hold 8 eggs, but you need 9 eggs to end the level.

 

3) when you go to the dino to grab an egg, you do not get it immediately/instantly.  You actually need to stay there for a bit of time (not specified in the manual), and then the egg blinks and that's an indication that you have it so you can leave with it.  This means that while you are waiting at/under the dino for the egg to blink, then the dino can breathe down on you.  This is even harder on the Pro mode since the dino breathe down more often.

 

4) Once the egg is laid, then you have 8-seconds before it rolls back to be hatched.  I certainly knew about the baby dino being hatched, but I didn't know it was an 8-second window.

 

 

[TwentySixHundred]

6 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

So i guess your pterodactyl needs to be large enough to carry away an egg, and since your egg is a bit large then the bird needs to be suitably large.  Not necessarily as large as the caveman, or maybe even larger than the caveman.  So long as the egg and pterodactyl are a nice ratio to each other, then it'd look good.

 

In the original game, you can see that the egg is held in the bird's mouth and is carried away.

 

It'd be nice to see the egg being carried away in your game.

 

If an egg just disappears, then the size of the pterodactyl isn't so important, so long as it looks good.

 

First of all thanks for the detailed analysis of the original game 👍

 

The pterodactyl flight routine and flying away with the egg is something i haven't got to yet. It's definitely a consideration though and trying to figure out the best flight pattern ect. As im working with TIX who designs the sprites, it's a joint decision as to how we implement this in conjunction with his sprite designs.

 

5 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

I've not played since I was a kid back in the '80s.  I can pop some batteries in to see if it still works after all these years, but i do recall that the amateur level had a few levels of progression.

 

First level is just you and the dino, so no lava and no pterosaur. 

 

Second level added the pterosuar and no lava.

 

Third level was lava and no pterodactyl.

 

fourth level was lava and pterodactyl.

 

I don't recall if it just stays like that from there on out.

 

You plan to follow that same level progression?  Your last video seems to indicate that you start on level 3 of the original game.

You're correct it's more like scene 3 in the beginning and i was going to go with the original concept to begin with. I like the concept of the original although im starting to sit on the fence about it being a direct port. I also understand that maybe disappointing for those wanting a faithful port.

 

5 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

And the dino lays eggs when dizzy.  If there is already an egg available and you hit the dino, then you can typically grab that egg and one more egg before the dino recovers.  Maybe your can do that for your amateur setting, but the Pro setting would not have the dino lay eggs while dizzy.  Just to spice things up a bit.

 

I don't remember the Pro level progression.  I just know that it starts with two pterosaurs flying around, and you throw your single axe and you have to go home to get another.

I like these ideas for amateur and pro settings and really good suggestions. Definitely something i will be looking into when the core engine is in it's later stages.

 

4 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

I just found the instructions to the original game.

 

Tomy-Caveman.pdf 635.33 kB · 1 download

 

Some interesting things that i didn't recall, or that I never knew about.

 

1) I did not know (or forgot) that you if you place an egg at your home's "egg counter" position that you do not get points for it until when you placed a second egg down and that first one actually enters your home.  I guess that makes sense since the pterodactyl can take it, so you don't get points until it is protected in your cave. 

 

2) Your cave only hold 8 eggs, but you need 9 eggs to end the level.

 

3) when you go to the dino to grab an egg, you do not get it immediately/instantly.  You actually need to stay there for a bit of time (not specified in the manual), and then the egg blinks and that's an indication that you have it so you can leave with it.  This means that while you are waiting at/under the dino for the egg to blink, then the dino can breathe down on you.  This is even harder on the Pro mode since the dino breathe down more often.

 

4) Once the egg is laid, then you have 8-seconds before it rolls back to be hatched.  I certainly knew about the baby dino being hatched, but I didn't know it was an 8-second window.

 

 

Thankyou very much for the instruction manual scan. It has very useful information that otherwise could be easily overlooked.

[TwentySixHundred]

My overall thoughts on where this project is heading:

I don't really want to step on the toes of TOMY other than this being an inspirational project. That means more inspired by but not exactly the same, as a complete clone defines a port IMO.

 

Not only that but i am starting to look at the original game as a concept (genre). Much like the multiple Pac Man, platformers, space shooters ect ect. It has the same caveman theme and the concept is very similar. However the FLD game was limited to certain features where the 7800 is not.

 

I don't want to give anything away, but there is some amazing spritework from TIX in progress that slightly alters a key mechanic in gameplay. It looks great and i feel an artist needs flexibility along with freedom to produce their best. Personally i am very excited about an upcoming gameplay change.

[TwentySixHundred]

Update a little earlier than i wanted, however with this new feature i am sure someone will find bugs quicker than i can. This is a feature i am really excited about and i think TIX did a tremendous job with the sprites.

 

Build_20231130

• graphics - mama T-Rex now eats the caveman (KG)
• graphics - pterodactyl sprite update 12x32 (KG)
• graphics - titlescreen changes (AQ)(KG)
• graphics - background tile changes (AQ)
• graphics - background colour changes (AQ)
• engine    - egg now rolls through dino legs (AQ)
• engine    - dizzy indicator now animated (AQ)
• engine    - score changes (AQ)
• code       - changes (AQ)

Latest Build: StoneAge 20231130.a78 StoneAge 20231130.bin

 

 

[Trebor]

The grab is great, but the chew, even better! 

Pterodactyl looks very cool.

[+fdr4prez]

oh, yeah, that's a nice update!

 

The new pterodactyl is nice and the biting dino is a funny surprise!

 

In a higher level, you should have the dino bite down when the caveman is not at the dino.

 

This will have two effects: 1) she is trying to protect her egg from you and 2) there is now a chance that your axe throw will miss the dino head.

 

This will emulate the actual game where the dino breathes fire down randomly.

[TwentySixHundred]

24 minutes ago, fdr4prez said:

In a higher level, you should have the dino bite down when the caveman is not at the dino.

 

This will have two effects: 1) she is trying to protect her egg from you and 2) there is now a chance that your axe throw will miss the dino head.

Brilliant idea!

 

Thankyou as i was thinking about if i should make her randomly bite to avoid getting hit with the axe 👍

[+saxmeister]

This looks great! I love the dino bites/chews and the addition of the pterodactyl. Very nice work.

 

[TwentySixHundred]

Update

 

Build_20231205

• graphics - mama T-Rex idle sprites revision (KG)
• graphics - titlescreen animation (KG)
• graphics - egg sprites revised (KG)
• engine    - titlescreen changes (AQ)
• engine    - many changes - additional code - fixes and flow (AQ)
• bugfix     - when eaten and caveman has egg it was counted in his stash (AQ)
• bugfix     - player could knock out t-rex at the same time as triggering the t-rex eating routine. This caused the player to lock in place then eaten after the t-rex awoke (AQ) (Good find by TIX as it was a frame perfect bug😆)

Latest Build: StoneAge 20231205.a78 StoneAge 20231205.bin

 

 

[TwentySixHundred]

So i posted yesterdays update thinking i wasn't going to develop today.

 

Anyway...

 

Build_20231206

• graphics - mama T-Rex hit sprites (KG)
• graphics - mama T-Rex dizzy indicator revised (KG)
• graphics - mama T-Rex face expression when laying egg (KG)
• engine    - mama T-Rex now lays the egg (AQ)
• engine    - mama T-Rex hit routine revised (AQ)
• code       - cleanup and better flow management (AQ)

Latest Build: StoneAge 20231206.a78 StoneAge 20231206.bin

 

 

[TIX]

1 hour ago, TwentySixHundred said:

So i posted yesterdays update thinking i wasn't going to develop today.

.

• graphics - mama T-Rex face expression when laying egg (KG)

 

Oh yeah Anthony !!

 

I really love your implementation of my sprites, well done buddy !

I'm actually working on a "lay an egg" sequence (among many other things), but even putting her "clench" face in, is hilarious 🤣

 

 

[+fdr4prez]

9 hours ago, TIX said:

I'm actually working on a "lay an egg" sequence (among many other things), but even putting her "clench" face in, is hilarious 🤣

Yeah, I like it.  She needs some fiber to help push out that egg!  

 

Oh, how about if after the caveman is eaten, then the dino will poop out his skull?

 

A little sequence where she chomps down and eats the caveman, and then head goes up to swallow him down and then she does a little dance/shimmy. and then she clenches her face and out pops a skull that rolls off screen to the right?

 

[Flashback]

Very nice game! On my PAL Machine the T-Rex is something like blue;)

 

my suggestion: different backgrounds every second or 5th level

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, Flashback said:

Very nice game! On my PAL Machine the T-Rex is something like blue;)

Currently, the game is using $B4 for both NTSC and PAL regions. 

While $B4 is more of a teal, green-blue, like color under NTSC, for PAL, the blue lean is stronger. 

A better selection for PAL would be $C4.

 

Overall, @TwentySixHundred the palette conversions between NTSC and PAL are best following this layout:

 

NTSC $0X <--> PAL $0X
NTSC $1X <--> PAL $2X
NTSC $2X <--> PAL $3X
NTSC $3X <--> PAL $4X
NTSC $4X <--> PAL $5X
NTSC $5X <--> PAL $6X
NTSC $6X <--> PAL $7X
NTSC $7X <--> PAL $8X
NTSC $8X <--> PAL $9X
NTSC $9X <--> PAL $AX
NTSC $AX <--> PAL $BX
NTSC $BX <--> PAL $CX
NTSC $CX <--> PAL $DX
NTSC $DX <--> PAL $EX

 

NTSC $EX <--> N/A - Best nearest when hot, PAL $FX

NTSC $FX <--> N/A - Best nearest when hot, PAL $2X

 

PAL $1X <--> N/A - Best nearest NTSC $DX

 

[TwentySixHundred]

1 hour ago, Flashback said:

Very nice game! On my PAL Machine the T-Rex is something like blue;)

 

my suggestion: different backgrounds every second or 5th level

Thanks for the report about PAL colours on real hardware. I will work on a conversion for those who want to run this on original PAL hardware.

 

8 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Currently, the game is using $B4 for both NTSC and PAL regions. 

While $B4 is more of a teal, green-blue, like color under NTSC, for PAL, the blue lean is stronger. 

A better selection for PAL would be $C4.

 

Overall, @TwentySixHundred the palette conversions between NTSC and PAL are best following this layout:

 

NTSC $0X <--> PAL $0X
NTSC $1X <--> PAL $2X
NTSC $2X <--> PAL $3X
NTSC $3X <--> PAL $4X
NTSC $4X <--> PAL $5X
NTSC $5X <--> PAL $6X
NTSC $6X <--> PAL $7X
NTSC $7X <--> PAL $8X
NTSC $8X <--> PAL $9X
NTSC $9X <--> PAL $AX
NTSC $AX <--> PAL $BX
NTSC $BX <--> PAL $CX
NTSC $CX <--> PAL $DX
NTSC $DX <--> PAL $EX

 

NTSC $EX <--> N/A

NTSC $FX <--> N/A - Best nearest PAL $2X

 

PAL $1X <--> N/A - Best nearest NTSC $DX

 

Thanks for the conversion table mate, will make the process easier than going through every individual colour 👍

[TwentySixHundred]

18 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

Yeah, I like it.  She needs some fiber to help push out that egg!  

 She does haha however i didn't want the process too easy for her 😄

18 hours ago, fdr4prez said:

Oh, how about if after the caveman is eaten, then the dino will poop out his skull?

 

A little sequence where she chomps down and eats the caveman, and then head goes up to swallow him down and then she does a little dance/shimmy. and then she clenches her face and out pops a skull that rolls off screen to the right?

 

Yes another great idea and all is possible. At this moment i am looking into maybe using the bankset scheme and or bankswitching as the project is growing. Initially i was going for a simple side project, however this has quickly become my favorite. I think TIX's brilliant artwork has kept me glued and excited 😁

[bfollett]

Just a minor observation.  After the dino lays an egg and it starts rolling, it goes a fair distance behind the left most leg before popping out in front of it.  The animation just looks a bit odd, any way of fixing that?

[TwentySixHundred]

@bfollett Thanks, i'll take a closer look and see if i can get the timing more precise. By memory i didn't fine tune the timing and was more worried about making the feature work correctly.

[TwentySixHundred]

18 hours ago, Flashback said:

Very nice game! On my PAL Machine the T-Rex is something like blue;)

 

my suggestion: different backgrounds every second or 5th level

Have a go with this build converted for PAL.

 

I have tested it within emulation and the colours seem good on my end.

 

PAL: StoneAge.20231207.a78 StoneAge.20231207.bin

[Flashback]

Thanks!

 

I will test it on real hardware this evening, its morning here right now

[Trebor]

3 hours ago, Flashback said:

Thanks!

 

I will test it on real hardware this evening, its morning here right now

Please do test.

 

It is definitely a green with a little blue tinge, nonetheless, the dino should appear greener now, as the value was updated from PAL $B4 to PAL $C4. 

 

PAL $C4 is the same value used for the darkest grass color under PAL Ninja Golf.  Two other values representing the grass in that game is PAL $C6 and PAL $C8: