Cybergoth Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Hi there! Don't panic, this is not about an updated Gunfight Just every once in a while, I'm thinking about a possible *real* Gunfight sequel and how it should be done. Well, as an analysis of the "western" genre, there exist actually pretty few games only. Gunfight started in the arcades. There's arcade games, dealing with a western theme, classic ones like "Dog Patch", "Dead Eye", "Wild Western" or middle aged ones like "Gun Smoke", "Express Rider", "Sunset Riders" & "Blood Brothers". Western videogames are rare, I think the only one worth mentioning is "Lone Ranger" for the NES. There's a surprising lot of western games on the C64, most memorable should be "High Noon" and "Law of the West". And in terms of modern PC gaming, there is "Outaws", "Desperado" & "America". All of these have one thing in common: They don't feature the classic one-on-one-to-death duel, which is all that Gunfight is about. So for a long time I thought the next logical step up from Gunfight would be the Atari 8-Bit Synapse classic "Claim Jumper". It is a cool 2-player duel game, only with way more *rules* and twists to it. But, after many moons of thinking about it, I finally came to the conclusion, that if there ever should be a Gunfight sequel, it can be nothing else than a plain duel of 2 cowboys. But here's the twist: Gunfight 2 would be a game for Light Guns... No clue why this thought took almost 2 years to materialize. I think I had this idea during one of the "Police 24-7" sessions in the local club Does anyone know wether it is possible to have 2 players using light guns at once on the VCS? Well, I'm not saying that I'll do it, I'm just interested in what you'd think about this. Could it be fun? Or do you even have a better idea? Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 But here's the twist: Gunfight 2 would be a game for Light Guns... Now that would be interesting. Does anyone know wether it is possible to have 2 players using light guns at once on the VCS? I never used a light gun on my VCS. Does it work like the A8 and NES? Hmm...if so then it seems possible. For example, when the screen flashes you could check to see who fired and only look for that gun's location. Anyway, just a theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Does anyone know wether it is possible to have 2 players using light guns at once on the VCS? Well, I'm not saying that I'll do it, I'm just interested in what you'd think about this. Could it be fun? Or do you even have a better idea? The lightguns that you can use with the VCS don't seem to be too acurate. I wrote a little test program some years ago, that was tweaked to be perfect with the TV I had at the time. But on my new TV the hits are all a bit off now. Others who tried the demo also had problems on their systems. So I'm not sure how well a lightgun game would work on the VCS. It should be possible to use two lightguns at the same time, though. You have to blank the screen for one frame with a bright colour for each shot. You can only read one gun during this frame, so you should make sure that the players don't fire at the same frame too often. And you probably should try to find a game concept that dosn't require lot's of shots in a short time, or all the flashing might make the game unplayable. Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 The lightguns that you can use with the VCS don't seem to be too acurate. I wrote a little test program some years ago, that was tweaked to be perfect with the TV I had at the time. But on my new TV the hits are all a bit off now. Others who tried the demo also had problems on their systems. So I'm not sure how well a lightgun game would work on the VCS. But wouldn't it be possible to calibrate them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 More to the point, where will we (the players) come across these "lightguns" with which to play this new game? I don't know anyone who has one of these (at least no one that actually plays it) I love the idea, Manuel, very innovative, but you are brainstorming a product for which there is no current, significant market. I'd LOVE this game, but with no way to play it, I will be extremely But don't let me rain on your parade, I'd LOVE to see both the software and hardware for this kind of project come into existence. Mixed Emotions Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oesii Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I sort of agree with you Stan even though I have a XE and a converted SMS lightgun for my Atari systems. Not a lot of 2600 gamers have lightguns. But if the game is innovative enough (probably a given with the Xype name on it ) I'm sure you can sell a combination cart + lightgun package. Might be a challenge to get 50 or so lightguns together for sale though Worked for Thrust+ with the footpedal controller right? And people will buy special controllers for fun games like Samba De Amigo and Dance Dance Revolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Hi there! I sort of agree with you Stan even though I have a XE and a converted SMS lightgun for my Atari systems. Not a lot of 2600 gamers have lightguns. Hm... please help a lefthanded no-hardware guy: What does "converting a SMS lightgun" mean in precise detail? Could one possibly adjust the difference between the Atari and the Sega gun via the Software, so that the player could for example use a difficulty switch to toggle between Atari and Sega mode? As for the calibrating thing, I assume one knows where the screen was hit, and can possibly visualize this, so a good skilled player can probably adopt his aiming to this? @Stan: No need to analyse the market right now. Just let us collect some freshly brainstormed thoughts, free from such barriers. When the time comes, (if it comes...) things can be resolved one by one. Right now all we have is a marketing tagline: "2-Player Gunfight with Lightguns". So what would the actual game be like? Any ideas anyone? Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oesii Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 From the 2600 faq, once it's converted it would probably only be recognized as an Atari lightgun by the system and software. Maybe if you had the hardware specs for the SMS Gun you could design a better recognition routine. Q: How do I convert a Sega Master System lightgun to Atari pinout? A: The Aug 1988 (Vol 7, Num 4) Antic Magazine contained an article called First look: Inside the XE Game System: Hardware surprises revealed. It described the conversion: To modify the Sega gun for the Atari, you'll have to cut off the incompatible connector. The wires must be stripped back and soldered into an Atari joystick connector as follows: SEGA GUN ATARI JOYSTICK PORT Blue wire Pin 1 stick FWD Gray wire Pin 6 trigger Green wire Pin 7 +5 volts Black wire Pin 8 Ground Because of the close fitting connections for the XEGS ports, don't wire in a DB9 female connector that has "ears". Most joysticks don't have wires for unused signals, so cutting up an old joystick cable may not work. Specifically, an Atari joystick does not need the +5 volts, so there isn't likely to be a wire connected to Pin 7. However, you can find joystick extension cables at Radio Shack, which have all nine pins wired from male to female. Antic disclaims responsibility for any damages that might occur during improper implementation of this, or any, hardware modification project we publish. Once it's all hooked up, you'll notice that gun fires when you release the trigger, which is annoying. The Sega trigger wiring is the opposite of what the Atari light gun uses. To rewire the trigger switch, remove the five screws (one is under the Sega logo on the side). Find the trigger micro-switch with three connections. Wire to the normally closed contacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Hi there! To modify the Sega gun for the Atari, you'll have to cut off the incompatible connector. The wires must be stripped back and soldered into an Atari joystick connector as follows Hm... last time I checked, the SMS Joystick ports seemed compatible to the 2600 ones? Or how/where is the Gun plugged into the SMS? Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Hi there! Ok, I've seen it in some other schematics. Sega has the +5V on Pin 5, Atari has it on Pin 7. Doesn't matter for a Joystick, but a gun would need power, right? Then there's no way to do it without rewiring... Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Actually it's the other way around. Atari has +5V on pin 7 and Sega uses pin 5. Also the meaning of the input bits is inverted between the XE lightgun and the SMS lightgun. This could be compensated with a special hit detection routine for the SMS gun, but an adapter would probably be the better choice. It might be possible to use the SMS lightgun in an unmodified form though. The Genesis pads also require +5V on pin 5 for the chip that handles the button switching. And the original Sega pads seem to work fine on a 2600. You would be drawing the power from the TIA, which is not such a good idea, but for a low-power device it might still work. To read a lightgun on the 2600 you need a loop that continously checks the input pin for one frame. So the resolution you could get would be something like 53x40. I checked my demo again, and the lightgun wasn't that inacurate. If you have big targets and a hit marker, it might work pretty nicely. I guess the game type that would suit the 2600 best would be a collection with lots of Western-themed minigames. A Gunfight version of Point Blank/Gun Bullet, if you will. Other lightgun games live from advancing into new graphically interesting levels, which is something that the 2600 can't do too well. In a 32K ROM you should be able to fit in enough minigames to keep the player interested. Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 As for the calibrating thing, I assume one knows where the screen was hit, and can possibly visualize this, so a good skilled player can probably adopt his aiming to this? Or there is a little screen at the start of the game where the player helps calibrating the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveinabin Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Nice idea Manuel. Keep 'Ring of Fire' in there and all will be well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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