Experimental 2600+ Firmware and Dumper

[tradyblix]

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

the performance increases in this latest build are fantastic.

I want to say I feel like the games are faster, but it's probably just the placebo effect. Something feels different from earlier on, but it's likely just that my brain was told the emulation runs faster so I think that it is. lol. I'm thinking internal CPU performance shouldnt' really translate into percieved differences in the games ? Not sure. Either way, the games look and play really solid. As good as they do on Atari 50 collection on PS5, but more authentic. 

[tradyblix]

Okay so I was just on my lunch break and played Pitfall 2. It was still in there from the original load last night. I noticed the sound issues again, and went to go record a video, but when I hit the reset button (this is one of those games that still requires a physical reset to play) it reset the whole game and went back to the dumper. This is something I've occasionally had happen, the physical switch creates enough of a jolt to the console it's sometimes enough to indicate the cart has moved, even tho it's still in the slot.

 

So I knew there was a connection issue between the game, even tho it had loaded, and when it had dumped it. Then I got it to load to vertical yellow lines, which I know indicates bad data was read on the load, so I cleaned the cart (again). Then, I was able to load it, and record my video, and of course, none of the sound issues at all (other than the theme tune which I mistook for distortion) that had originally occured, occurred when I recorded the video this time.

The sound issues actually sounded like clipping/timing issues and when I got them it was on the second screen to the right after a few seconds of play and just moving right, there was a bat on the screen at the time or whatever it is. 

 

So my hypothesis is: you can potentially get bad loads where the game runs but doesn't play right. (or sound right) That's the only explanation I can give for why, on my second playthrough, no clipping/popping and everything being normal. It seems kind of like that it should be that either you load the game or you don't, so I'm having a hard time understanding this, but that's what seems to have happened.

 

It's either that, or possibly that I just think some sounds that are glitchy that are actually just how the game sounds due to early digitized music approach.

 

I'm not gonna bother uploading the video as the problem wasn't present on it. So I guess I still have to learn, clean it, clean it again. Those old carts really need a couple cleans. 

 

So glad we can play this game now tho. I still think Montezuma's revenge is better Btw. lol.  None the less, this is still technically, possibly the most impressive twenty six hundred game from The original time period. 

Edited May 29 by tradyblix

[Trebor]

12 hours ago, tradyblix said:

...maybe even some distortion playing the main theme song which changes everytime you pick up gold bars...

Theme song changes in pitch and tempo, which some may interpret as 'distortion', happens under original 2600 console hardware as well.  Especially noticeable when gold bars are picked up or when the player is returned to a check point.

 

It is also known that Pitfall II music can vary from cart to cart.  One of the factors involved is the tolerances and aging components of the oscillator circuit.

[CPUWIZ]

2 minutes ago, Trebor said:

 

 

It is also known that Pitfall II music can vary from cart to cart.  One of the factors involved is the tolerances and aging components of the oscillator circuit.

 

I collected a bunch of P2's for the sound chip and came across one, where it only played partial sounds.  I just saw a stack of 3 of them, maybe I can find it, although I may have taken it apart long ago.

 

Abandoned the idea, so if anyone needs a Pitfall II, I have a couple for sale. LOL

[Gamemoose]

2 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

I collected a bunch of P2's for the sound chip and came across one, where it only played partial sounds.  I just saw a stack of 3 of them, maybe I can find it, although I may have taken it apart long ago.

 

Abandoned the idea, so if anyone needs a Pitfall II, I have a couple for sale. LOL

If you're offering, I'd be interested in a P2.  Let me know.

[DEANJIMMY]

13 hours ago, tradyblix said:

Okay so I was just on my lunch break and played Pitfall 2. It was still in there from the original load last night. I noticed the sound issues again, and went to go record a video, but when I hit the reset button (this is one of those games that still requires a physical reset to play) it reset the whole game and went back to the dumper. This is something I've occasionally had happen, the physical switch creates enough of a jolt to the console it's sometimes enough to indicate the cart has moved, even tho it's still in the slot.

 

So I knew there was a connection issue between the game, even tho it had loaded, and when it had dumped it. Then I got it to load to vertical yellow lines, which I know indicates bad data was read on the load, so I cleaned the cart (again). Then, I was able to load it, and record my video, and of course, none of the sound issues at all (other than the theme tune which I mistook for distortion) that had originally occured, occurred when I recorded the video this time.

The sound issues actually sounded like clipping/timing issues and when I got them it was on the second screen to the right after a few seconds of play and just moving right, there was a bat on the screen at the time or whatever it is. 

 

So my hypothesis is: you can potentially get bad loads where the game runs but doesn't play right. (or sound right) That's the only explanation I can give for why, on my second playthrough, no clipping/popping and everything being normal. It seems kind of like that it should be that either you load the game or you don't, so I'm having a hard time understanding this, but that's what seems to have happened.

 

It's either that, or possibly that I just think some sounds that are glitchy that are actually just how the game sounds due to early digitized music approach.

 

I'm not gonna bother uploading the video as the problem wasn't present on it. So I guess I still have to learn, clean it, clean it again. Those old carts really need a couple cleans. 

 

So glad we can play this game now tho. I still think Montezuma's revenge is better Btw. lol.  None the less, this is still technically, possibly the most impressive twenty six hundred game from The original time period. 

If you have the debug load on, you can check the Md5 hash, if it changes.

My Medieval cart seems to run fine often. But sometimes some graphics are corrupted or the music is a bit off, or it resets.

If I switch off and on, without reseating  the cart, situation often changes, so does the Md5 value (dumped different data?)

Had similar glitches with my PAL Space Instigators but after some cleaning and many reseats it works fine now. Pitfall2 was finicky too but after intense cleaning and many reseats it is fine now. All my Activision carts needed magic hands to find the sweet spot with a little lift first but after 2-3 weeks they all became no brainers.

 

Only my Medieval cart has decided to be dumped wrong often. All my other carts except 3 ARM carts run fine now, only Medieval is left causing trouble.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

5 minutes ago, DEANJIMMY said:

If you have the debug load on, you can check the Md5 hash, if it changes.

This may or may not make sense. Depending on how the dumper and the cart work, the MD5 hash might be random. This is because the bankswitching hotspots may (or may not) return random values. If the dumper tries to read the data at the hotspot, this causes a bank switch. The data returned might be from the current or the new bank, something in between or completely random. This depends on the cart hardware and data. And if the dumper does not skip the hotspots and/or returns a defined value for them, the MD5 can be different each time.  

[tradyblix]

16 hours ago, Trebor said:

It is also known that Pitfall II music can vary from cart to cart.  One of the factors involved is the tolerances and aging components of the oscillator circuit.

That's interesting. But that wouldn't be a factor in a cart dumping system like the 2600+, surely ? The data is being run on an emulator that doesn't have the main hardware.... right ? 

Edited May 30 by tradyblix

[tradyblix]

9 hours ago, DEANJIMMY said:

If you have the debug load on, you can check the Md5 hash, if it changes.

My Medieval cart seems to run fine often. But sometimes some graphics are corrupted or the music is a bit off, or it resets.

If I switch off and on, without reseating  the cart, situation often changes, so does the Md5 value (dumped different data?)

Had similar glitches with my PAL Space Instigators but after some cleaning and many reseats it works fine now. Pitfall2 was finicky too but after intense cleaning and many reseats it is fine now. All my Activision carts needed magic hands to find the sweet spot with a little lift first but after 2-3 weeks they all became no brainers.

 

Only my Medieval cart has decided to be dumped wrong often. All my other carts except 3 ARM carts run fine now, only Medieval is left causing trouble.

I see. Well that's helpful, that's the type of experience I'm used to. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

One thing I did notice is that, while my genuine Pitfall II cart works just fine, I can not get it to start when dumped onto a harmony cart as a single file. 
 

not sure if batari needs to make a new bald witch file for it, or if the 2600+ is reading it differently than a real p2 cart

Edited May 30 by John Stamos Mullet

[CPUWIZ]

7 hours ago, tradyblix said:

That's interesting. But that wouldn't be a factor in a cart dumping system like the 2600+, surely ? The data is being run on an emulator that doesn't have the main hardware.... right ? 

 

Correct, the sound chip is completely ignored.

[Trebor]

10 hours ago, tradyblix said:

That's interesting. But that wouldn't be a factor in a cart dumping system like the 2600+, surely ? The data is being run on an emulator that doesn't have the main hardware.... right ? 

Correct, regarding the dump of the cart to 2600+.   However, if one is comparing the Pitfall II cart melody running under an original 2600/7800 console and then that same cart running under the emulated 2600+ sound, there can be a noticeable and significant difference.

 

Consequently, some may conclude, or have the impression, the 2600+ emulation sounds wrong or distorted.  That indeed is not the case.

[CPUWIZ]

13 minutes ago, Trebor said:

Some may consequently conclude, or have the impression, the 2600+ emulation sounds wrong or distorted.  That indeed is not the case.

 

You can even use the 2600+ to test against P2 carts, to see if they are "defective". LOL

[Thomas Jentzsch]

5 hours ago, Trebor said:

Correct, regarding the dump of the cart to 2600+.   However, if one is comparing the Pitfall II cart melody running under an original 2600/7800 console and then that same cart running under the emulated 2600+ sound, there can be a noticeable and significant difference.

That's why Stella has an option (not available for 2600+ users) to adjust the Pitfall II pitch, so that it fits to the cart:

[CPUWIZ]

It would be dead easy to add a potentiometer to the PCB and read that with a spare ADC pin, for people who don't like the pitch.  Just saying, everyone has slightly different hearing. I can hear stuff my wife can't and never could, for instance.

[tradyblix]

20 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

One thing I did notice is that, while my genuine Pitfall II cart works just fine, I can not get it to start when dumped onto a harmony cart as a single file. 
 

not sure if batari needs to make a new bald witch file for it, or if the 2600+ is reading it differently than a real p2 cart

I thought the harmony cart only supported 4k files as a single file ? I can't get mine to work anyway. and I can't get it to update because it uses an outdated mini usb connector. I just use it for roms on the OG 2600 now, I gave up on using it with 2600+

[Dionoid]

On 5/23/2024 at 6:10 AM, raz0red said:

Updated firmware and dumper release on the first page.

 

The updated dumper is the result of a tremendous amount of work by @batari and @RevEng.

 

The changes to the dumper are fairly significant, so it is very likely there will be regressions. Please report any findings in this thread.

 

Caveat (as always): These builds are experimental, not official Atari/Plaion releases, so please use at your own risk.

 

Thanks a lot,

Chris.

Hi Chris, what will be the path to releasing this firmware update? If no issues are found in the next week, will you guys give green light for a release?

[raz0red]

19 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

Hi Chris, what will be the path to releasing this firmware update? If no issues are found in the next week, will you guys give green light for a release?

There are still a couple of additional fixes (not in the current experimental build) that we would like to include. But, while we can suggest that a version should be turned into an official release, it is Atari/Plaion's decision.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Chris.

Edited June 1 by raz0red

[MrChickenz]

On 5/31/2024 at 3:13 AM, CPUWIZ said:

Just saying, everyone has slightly different hearing. I can hear stuff my wife can't and never could, for instance.

You’re right! Because my wife always tells me I never hear a word she says! Lol!

 

PITFALL II sounds fine on my 2600+, I haven’t compared it to original hardware though.

Edited June 1 by MrChickenz

[John Stamos Mullet]

On 5/31/2024 at 11:28 AM, tradyblix said:

I thought the harmony cart only supported 4k files as a single file ? I can't get mine to work anyway. and I can't get it to update because it uses an outdated mini usb connector. I just use it for roms on the OG 2600 now, I gave up on using it with 2600+

batari uploaded new bankswitch files so most of the other cart formats all work now. But Pitfall II might need it's own.

[raz0red]

44 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

batari uploaded new bankswitch files so most of the other cart formats all work now. But Pitfall II might need it's own.

@batari can obviously provide more information, but with the latest dumper version, those files should no longer be necessary. I have not been using them with my Harmony and everything is working as it should (with the exception of Pitfall II).

 

Thanks,

Chris.

[Spanner]

On 5/31/2024 at 7:05 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

That's why Stella has an option (not available for 2600+ users) to adjust the Pitfall II pitch, so that it fits to the cart:

You should be able to do that in PCUAE and Stella Cartridge Mode, it loads the cart in Stella v7.0pre so just need to pause the game and bring up its settings.

[John Stamos Mullet]

1 hour ago, raz0red said:

@batari can obviously provide more information, but with the latest dumper version, those files should no longer be necessary. I have not been using them with my Harmony and everything is working as it should (with the exception of Pitfall II).

 

Thanks,

Chris.

Even better!

 

yeah - everything else I tried worked great. Not complaining just bug reporting. Might even be my rom. I have a few dumps. I'll try a different one.

[tradyblix]

Pitfall II is still relatively cheap atm. 

[Mr. Christmas]

Cool.  Seems like a milestone has been hit.

 

I'm ready to write my article now.  I'd like a link to send new buyers to where they can update.

 

Preferably not a "here's a forum link register and then figure it out, loser" link.

Edited June 2 by Mr. Christmas