a mysterious Nanopeb volume question I don't quite understand

[newTIboyRob]

So as I am learning more and more about the Nanopeb, volumes, virtual drives and now the CF MGR, I came to something I'm not quite grasping and perhaps someone could shed some light on here.  My CF MGR is located on Nanopeb Volume 4, so a simple CALL MOUNT (3,4) in TI Basic with the E/A cart in, option 5 selection, and DSK3.CFMGR run got me right into it with no issue. Typing 6 for LIST showed that there was nothing next to Volume 2. Earlier, when I was in Ti99Dir, it showed that Volume 2 was UNFORMATED. However... if I then go back into TI basic, do a CALL MOUNT (2,2), OLD DSK2.VCATALOG where that is located and run that, not only does it show a Volume name (which is actually that bunch of gobbledygook symbols shown in the photo), it also shows there are indeed files on Vol 2.  I must be missing something...   So just to reiterate:

 

• there was nothing listed next to Vol 2. in the CFMGR,
• the TIDir showed Vol 2. as UNFORMATED,
• the photo shows that Vol. 2 not only exists, it has a name, and also currently still contains those files.

 

When I was in CFMGR I tried to RENAME VOL 2 as WHATTHEF, just to see what happened, but it displayed the VOLUME ERROR  VOL NOT INITIALIZED message which I believe means UNFORMATED...? 

 

Or is this maybe where I am incorrect: I thought that a volume is a volume in contents and name, regardless if it is mounted to DSK 1 2 or 3, as those are just the virtual drives?

 

So can anyone clear this one up for me?

Edited February 21 by newTIboyRob

[GDMike]

Tipi is the better and most reliable system than the older nanopeb. 

[RickyDean]

9 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So as I am learning more and more about the Nanopeb, volumes, virtual drives and now the CF MGR, I came to something I'm not quite grasping and perhaps someone could shed some light on here.  My CF MGR is located on Nanopeb Volume 4, so a simple CALL MOUNT (3,4) in TI Basic with the E/A cart in, option 5 selection, and DSK3.CFMGR run got me right into it with no issue. Typing 6 for LIST showed that there was nothing next to Volume 2. Earlier, when I was in Ti99Dir, it showed that Volume 2 was UNFORMATED. However... if I then go back into TI basic, do a CALL MOUNT (2,2), OLD DSK2.VCATALOG where that is located and run that, not only does it show a Volume name (which is actually that bunch of gobbledygook symbols shown in the photo), it also shows there are indeed files on Vol 2.  I must be missing something...   So just to reiterate:

 

• there was nothing listed next to Vol 2. in the CFMGR,
• the TIDir showed Vol 2. as UNFORMATED,
• the photo shows that Vol. 2 not only exists, it has a name, and also currently still contains those files.

 

When I was in CFMGR I tried to RENAME VOL 2 as WHATTHEF, just to see what happened, but it displayed the VOLUME ERROR  VOL NOT INITIALIZED message which I believe means UNFORMATED...? 

 

Or is this maybe where I am incorrect: I thought that a volume is a volume in contents and name, regardless if it is mounted to DSK 1 2 or 3, as those are just the virtual drives?

 

So can anyone clear this one up for me?

That actually looks like the manager for the CF7+ and Nano. Didn't you say something about deleting or formatting or something when you first got the nano and set it up. I would try copying those files to a good empty volume, then see if that volume can be formatted again. You may not have lost all the original information.

Edited February 21 by RickyDean
spelling

[Stuart]

11 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:

So as I am learning more and more about the Nanopeb, volumes, virtual drives and now the CF MGR, I came to something I'm not quite grasping and perhaps someone could shed some light on here.  My CF MGR is located on Nanopeb Volume 4, so a simple CALL MOUNT (3,4) in TI Basic with the E/A cart in, option 5 selection, and DSK3.CFMGR run got me right into it with no issue. Typing 6 for LIST showed that there was nothing next to Volume 2. Earlier, when I was in Ti99Dir, it showed that Volume 2 was UNFORMATED. However... if I then go back into TI basic, do a CALL MOUNT (2,2), OLD DSK2.VCATALOG where that is located and run that, not only does it show a Volume name (which is actually that bunch of gobbledygook symbols shown in the photo), it also shows there are indeed files on Vol 2.  I must be missing something...   So just to reiterate:

 

• there was nothing listed next to Vol 2. in the CFMGR,
• the TIDir showed Vol 2. as UNFORMATED,
• the photo shows that Vol. 2 not only exists, it has a name, and also currently still contains those files.

 

When I was in CFMGR I tried to RENAME VOL 2 as WHATTHEF, just to see what happened, but it displayed the VOLUME ERROR  VOL NOT INITIALIZED message which I believe means UNFORMATED...? 

 

Or is this maybe where I am incorrect: I thought that a volume is a volume in contents and name, regardless if it is mounted to DSK 1 2 or 3, as those are just the virtual drives?

 

So can anyone clear this one up for me?

 

The gobbledygook characters in the volume name suggests that the volume is corrupt. But different programs are using different techniques to verify whether a volume is valid or not.

[+OLD CS1]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

The gobbledygook characters in the volume name suggests that the volume is corrupt. But different programs are using different techniques to verify whether a volume is valid or not.

I often see odd characters in volume names in DM2K, usually when browsing my SCSI volume.  The volume might have some corruption, but it still seems to work, otherwise.

[newTIboyRob]

@Stuart... thank you for that. Ok, oh that would explain a lot then, with the corruption, as that just must have carried over with that volume from the previous owner. Since the VCATALOG and DIR files with the CALL MOUNT (2,2) and OLD DSK2  did load and run without issue, I guess it is another case of the volume having corruption but still seeming to work otherwise.

 

• Corruption meaning... something wasn't encoded properly or how would you describe that?  Is there often a particular "culprit" causing volume and/or file corruption?      
• So are we saying that it is the corruption concept then, just in general, that is making the volume both be able to be listed as UNFORMATED, yet still show files that are usable on it?  Weird?

@RickyDean ..at this stage, the only way I know to copy files is to bring them up in TIBASIC with OLD DISK2 and then (re) SAVE DSK2..to copy files. I have the I nanoPEB SIO V1-2 update, but don't see COPY in there. Didn't you once mention there was a list of terms/commands with the CF7+ that were likely similar to the Nanopeb?... I didn't see one right off about CF MGR, so maybe you could redirect me?

 

@GDMike... perhaps you don't know my history here on the forum with devices. With the TI, I have a Tandy tape recorder, which, although great, it is still the tape concept. I tried to replace that with a more reliable means in the Olympus digital recorder, but then was unexpectedly and graciously gifted the Nanopeb, which, for me was like moving from the Honda to the Mercedes, with the TIPI being the Rolls. (They're all still super cars of course, I'm just trying to show a progression here.) I don't feel the need to upgrade to the TIPI, because, after shelling out a decent amount of moolah over various other computer brand platforms, I simply don't... pun intendeed.. have the wampum. The Nanopeb to me still is quite an amazing device and way more than I would ever need and I feel honored to have it up and running now.

 

 

If anyone is familiar with the CF MGR, I'm wondering if you do the procedure  1. FILE UTILITIES -->1. COPY.... and then assign the volume to copy over to a (preformatted) empty volume, do all the files in the volume just copy over in the volume, or do you have to copy the files one by one in the volume. (I'd just kind of rather know beforehand, before I'd go "Oops!")

 

To anyone: Briefly, if CALL FORMAT (DSK,VOL) is the quickie format for a volume in TI BASIC, does the FORMAT in the CFMGR do the same thing?  Do you prefer one over the other?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21 by newTIboyRob

[RickyDean]

39 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:

@Stuart... thank you for that. Ok, oh that would explain a lot then, with the corruption, as that just must have carried over with that volume from the previous owner. Since the VCATALOG and DIR files with the CALL MOUNT (2,2) and OLD DSK2  did load and run without issue, I guess it is another case of the volume having corruption but still seeming to work otherwise.

 

• Corruption meaning... something wasn't encoded properly or how would you describe that?  Is there often a particular "culprit" causing volume and/or file corruption?      
• So are we saying that it is the corruption concept then, just in general, that is making the volume both be able to be listed as UNFORMATED, yet still show files that are usable on it?  Weird?

@RickyDean ..at this stage, the only way I know to copy files is to bring them up in TIBASIC with OLD DISK2 and then (re) SAVE DSK2..to copy files. I have the I nanoPEB SIO V1-2 update, but don't see COPY in there. Didn't you once mention there was a list of terms/commands with the CF7+ that were likely similar to the Nanopeb?... I didn't see one right off about CF MGR, so maybe you could redirect me?

 

@GDMike... perhaps you don't know my history here on the forum with devices. With the TI, I have a Tandy tape recorder, which, although great, is just not 100% reliable as it is still the tape concept. I tried to replace that with a more reliable means in the Olympus digital recorder, but then was unexpectedly and graciously gifted the Nanopeb, which, for me was like moving from the Honda to the Mercedes, with the TIPI being the Rolls. I don't feel the need to upgrade to the TIPI, because, after shelling out a decent amount of moolah over various other computer brand platforms, I simply don't... pun intendeed.. have the wampum. The Nanopeb to me still is quite an amazing device and way more than I would ever need and I feel honored to have it up and running now.

 

 

If anyone is familiar with the CF MGR, I'm wondering if you do the procedure  1. FILE UTILITIES -->1. COPY.... and then assign the volume to copy over to a (preformatted) empty volume, do all the files in the volume just copy over in the volume, or do you have to copy the files one by one in the volume. (I'd just kind of rather know beforehand, before I'd go "Oops!")

 

To anyone: Briefly, if CALL FORMAT (DSK,VOL) is the quickie format for a volume in TI BASIC, does the FORMAT in the CFMGR do the same thing?  Do you prefer one over the other?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The commands should be in the manual, but do you have a disk manager cartridge? Or I believe one of the files used on the volumes is a disk manager. If you have a disk manager you can pull up disk 2 and copy to disk 1 or 3, in order to save the files, if indeed they are salvagable.

[newTIboyRob]

Oh ok, good to know, I will see.  I'm snot sure which one of the files on the volumes is a disk manager. Thanks Ricky.

Edited February 21 by newTIboyRob

[+Torrax]

We copied a disk image called CF_EXTRA_UTILS.DSK to Volume #29.

 

So have your E/A cart plugged in.

 

From TI-Basic format an unused Volume number, with CALL FORMAT(new-vol#)

Then type CALL MOUNT(1,new-vol#), CALL MOUNT(2,2) and CALL MOUNT(3,29).

Type BYE to quit, and from the E/A menu select option 5.

 

And go through the following list to see if you can access the files on DSK2.

Try the CATALOG and FILE COPY options to see if they will list the files.

 

DSK3.CFMGR    - CF7+ Manager v1.01 (CF7/NANO)

DSK3.CF2K     - CompactFlash 2000 v2.6 (CF7/NANO)

DSK3.CFHDXS1  - CompactFlash HDX v2.0 (NANO)

DSK3.DU       - Disk Utilities v4.2

DSK3.AR       - Archiver 3.03G

 

Try to use one of them to copy the files to DSK1.

 

Once you have a successful copy of them to the new-vol#, and can list them from

a CATALOG of DSK1.

 

You can then do a CALL FORMAT(2) from TI-Basic.  You need to use a CF Command

or CF Utility to do a proper format of a Volume/Disk.

 

And then re-copy the files from DSK1 to the newly formatted DSK2.

 

[newTIboyRob]

Wow, thank you for that!

[newTIboyRob]

In rethinking, I'm still kind of not comfortable though having a corrupted volume, header and/or files, if I really don't need them anyway, so I decided I'd rather just nuke the files on the volume, the volume itself and then just format again to see how it appears in the CFMGR and on the VCATALOG.

 

Before I do that, I took a closer look at those 12 files. 5 of them I can do without, and I since already have a clean copy of CFMGR and I'm thinking those other 3 are just its related files, I can knock out those 4.

 

That would leave me with CATALOG, SLOAD and LOAD. I'm quite happy with VCATALOG. That being case, do I really need these remaining 3 files anyway? What do they pertain to/do?

Edited February 22 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Ehhh... turns out I didn't need those either, and decided on a simple CALL FORMAT (2) to finish things, then renamed Vol 2 BADBLOCKS to remind me to avoid it like Covid.

 

I'm happy to say in the end, when I went back into the CFMGR, it showed BADBLOCKS in lieu of all the gobbledygook characters in the volume header, naturally with no files present. So looks like I am back in business after all.  

 

Thanks to all your help, especially Torrax     The amount of knowledge I've learned with all of you here on the forum is just immeasurable and I am extremely grateful.

Edited February 22 by newTIboyRob

[newTIboyRob]

Just 2 afterthoughts on this corruption. I am mostly sure, but would just like 100% peace of mind verification here with these 2 simple questions.

 

Once you again FORMAT a volume, that wipes things out completely, changes and resets sectors, etc..

 

1) May sound sillly, but is it still possible, though not likely, that that volume 2 still contains any bad sectors say if call upon it by accident, or are those bad sectors long dead and gone now and not likely to return?

 

2) Before I knew Vol 2 was corrupted, I had called upon the VCATALOG and a few of those personal files like the TICALC before deleting them with the (re)FORMAT. But did that previous corruption just stay within a small section of the Nanopeb, like isolated, and then get wiped out (what I am imagining is like a small window in a drawing, the area being nuked), which, if I avoid VOL 2 now, poses no danger? 

 

In other words, was that corruption isolated/relegated to the Vol 2 area, and that area only, or is there a chance it could have spread/bled to other areas and/or Volumes inside the Nanopeb?

Edited February 22 by newTIboyRob

[RickyDean]

I'm going to say that when you first got the Nano, you said something about accidently deleting/formatting, or something to that effect. The corruption was probably caused by that process. You can probably just format that drive/volume and you will probably be ok using it normally. If you feel that it may still be a problem, just place files on it that you have backed up to another disk and play with those files some to see if you experience any issues. It will probably be ok, I don't think you have damaged space on the CF, unless it was very actively used by the prior owner. All CF's/SD's/SSD's can be written to too many times and start showing data coruption and file loss. But I don't think that's it in your case.

[newTIboyRob]

Great, so sounds like I am and will be ok then. Thanks a lot for that Ricky. (I'm trying to recall what you said about what I said about the accidently deleting/formatting, but it's not ringing a clear bell. What I do pretty much remember though is that that Vol 2 I believe was corrupted before I tried to do anything with the Nano other than view the volumes, so likely it was just like that with the corruption already there when I got it.)  It's possible though the prior owner did call upon Vol 2 a lot since it had the CF MGR and related files on it, but part of it always will be a mystery.  

 

But I guess the upshot is: even though I now did (re) FORMAT vol 2 and wiped those files out, (so I can't play around with those files as you say), if you think I probably don't have damaged space on the CF and that I'll probably be ok, that's good enough for me, so I will move on. As I say, I will just stay away from Vol 2. anyway, just to be safe. 

 

I appreciate your input as always.