Did the atari 5200 became obsolete after the atari xe or are there some exclusives on each of those systems??

[+MrFish]

Actually, hyperspace on the 8-bit computers for Defender is easy, because you can hit any alphanumeric key to engage it. So, just hit anywhere in the center of the keyboard and you're good.

 

Man, this stuff is so difficult on the 8-bit computers!!  

 

[space_dungeon]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:03 AM, pjedavison said:

 I'm missing some backstory here, judging by others' reactions, and take it at face value), the only 5200 exclusives I'm aware of are Countermeasure, the 5200's versions of Centipede and Qix (the A8 versions are different), Space Dungeon and Xari Arena. Even then, pretty sure most (if not all) of them have been ported to A8 by this point, so really the only reason to play with a 5200 is a masochistic curiosity as to whether that controller really is as bad as everyone says it is.

You cannot play Real Sports Baseball correctly on the 8bit if it was even ported.  It uses the gamepad and 2 buttons (something 8bit doesn't have). 

 

5200 Intellidiscs Tron game paying homage to the original Intellivision using a keypad was also created using the 5200 keypad.  You also cannot get the same game experience playing it on the 8bit computer as well. 

 

Atari 5200 Tempest was programmed and created for the 5200 which also uses the analog sticks and 5200 track ball. Tempest is an exclusive title. There are several reasons to play the 5200. 

 

Many people here that grew up with the 5200 sticks love the controller and it adds a whole different gaming experience.  The 5200 gameplay really shines when you're playing games like River Raid and Star Wars that control with analog controls.   

 

Edited April 14 by space_dungeon

[+Cafeman]

On 4/12/2024 at 5:58 PM, MrFish said:

Actually, hyperspace on the 8-bit computers for Defender is easy, because you can hit any alphanumeric key to engage it. So, just hit anywhere in the center of the keyboard and you're good. ***

 

*** PLACE ENTIRE CONSOLE ON LAP

 

[+MrFish]

23 minutes ago, Cafeman said:

*** PLACE ENTIRE CONSOLE ON LAP

For 5200 Super Nerds only.

 

[GaryH917]

On 3/27/2024 at 9:03 AM, pjedavison said:

Even then, pretty sure most (if not all) of them have been ported to A8 by this point, so really the only reason to play with a 5200 is a masochistic curiosity as to whether that controller really is as bad as everyone says it is.

 

On 3/27/2024 at 2:59 PM, SuperZapperRecharge said:

That may be sad but the 5200 is just a bastard child, always was, still is. The only reason third-party publishers supported it is because it was dead easy to convert games from the computers. As long as some 5200 "ambassadors" promote it for what it isn't, it will be laughed at by the mainstream public.

 

[zzip]

IDK,  ever since "Williams Arcade Classics" became available in the mid-90s,  I've been able to play the original arcade version of Defender at my leisure and don't see the point of arguing which platform has better hyperspace controls.   Do people really prefer the home ports of this game?

[GaryH917]

42 minutes ago, zzip said:

IDK,  ever since "Williams Arcade Classics" became available in the mid-90s,  I've been able to play the original arcade version of Defender at my leisure and don't see the point of arguing which platform has better hyperspace controls.   Do people really prefer the home ports of this game?

The 5200 version was/is the best way to play Defender at home. The analog joystick and 2-button controls make this very smooth to play. I couldn't imagine holding a joystick in one hand and reaching over to hit the spacebar(Smart bombs) or any button(Hyperspace) on the computer version . Awkward controls to say the least....

[+sramirez2008]

35 minutes ago, GaryH917 said:

The 5200 version was/is the best way to play Defender at home. The analog joystick and 2-button controls make this very smooth to play. I couldn't imagine holding a joystick in one hand and reaching over to hit the spacebar(Smart bombs) or any button(Hyperspace) on the computer version . Awkward controls to say the least....

Couldn’t agree more. The CX52s actually shine with this game. The controllers and Defender were made for each other.

@GaryH917 those are great scores.👍

[BassGuitari]

22 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said:

Couldn’t agree more. The CX52s actually shine with this game. The controllers and Defender were made for each other.

I would say this is more true for Star Raiders or Rescue on Fractalus, which make more complete use of the CX52 and are naturally suited to its analog joystick, but even with Defender's binary state of motion, I agree that the CX52 is preferable to joy+key.

 

2 hours ago, zzip said:

IDK,  ever since "Williams Arcade Classics" became available in the mid-90s,  I've been able to play the original arcade version of Defender at my leisure and don't see the point of arguing which platform has better hyperspace controls.   Do people really prefer the home ports of this game?

Are people saying that?

[zzip]

23 minutes ago, BassGuitari said:

3 hours ago, zzip said:

   Do people really prefer the home ports of this game?

Are people saying that?

Not explicitly, but this debate over "is it better to play the 5200 or XEGS version?" makes me wonder.    Maybe it's because Defender was one of my favorite arcade games that even the best home versions don't quite cut it for me.

[+MrFish]

I never liked the graphics for 8-bit/5200 Defender all that much. It's a good/respectable version, but not so compelling to get me excited about playing it very much. Archer Maclean's Drop Zone walks all over any Atari version of Defender, for graphics and smooth gameplay. Drop Zone is a tough game to play though; so, I don't get as much out of it as I could otherwise (except a solid ass kicking). We have a prototype of Maclean's version of Defender (and Stargate), which would have turned out great. Had he completed that version, I'm sure I would have played a lot more Defender on my 8-bit computer.

 

[christo930]

On 4/10/2024 at 6:37 PM, MrFish said:

The Atari 8-bit computers have way more game carts than the 5200 does. You could forget about disks and still have tons more available on carts for the 8-bit computers than for the 5200.

You sure about that?   I know there have been a lot of conversions from the 8bit line to the 5200.  So if you have an SD cartridge, there are a lot of games to play.  Of course, there are SD cartridges for the 8bit line too.

 

On 4/10/2024 at 6:37 PM, MrFish said:

The keyboard can be looked at as a positive or a negative. A keyboard has tons more keys than a 5200 controller, which opens the door for games that would be a right pain on any controller.

I suppose this is a fair point for some games.  Some games would not be very fun if forced to use a controller to play.

OTOH, the 8bit line is stuck using the 1 button 2600 stick.  Up to jump is just terrible. OTOH, the 5200 stick is not without its own major shortcomings. Plus you can use the paddle controller for some of the 8bit line games.

[christo930]

posted 3 times

Edited April 16 by christo930

[christo930]

posted 3 times

Edited April 16 by christo930

[christo930]

1 hour ago, MrFish said:

I never liked the graphics for 8-bit/5200 Defender all that much. It's a good/respectable version, but not so compelling to get me excited about playing it very much. Archer Maclean's Drop Zone walks all over any Atari version of Defender, for graphics and smooth gameplay. Drop Zone is a tough game to play though; so, I don't get as much out of it as I could otherwise (except a solid ass kicking). We have a prototype of Maclean's version of Defender (and Stargate), which would have turned out great. Had he completed that version, I'm sure I would have played a lot more Defender on my 8-bit computer.

 

Funny because the graphics is what I don't like about Dropzone.  That big man makes it easier for the aliens to hit you

 

7 hours ago, zzip said:

Not explicitly, but this debate over "is it better to play the 5200 or XEGS version?" makes me wonder.    Maybe it's because Defender was one of my favorite arcade games that even the best home versions don't quite cut it for me.

 

I like Stargate a lot more than Defender.  I played it a lot more in the arcade back in the day.  Plus it had the 2600 port, which was excellent.

 

10 hours ago, zzip said:

Do people really prefer the home ports of this game?

 

Protector for the Vectrex is my favorite way to play "Defender."  It's also my favorite way to play Space Invaders.  You have to see this port of SI to believe it.

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

You sure about that?   I know there have been a lot of conversions from the 8bit line to the 5200.  So if you have an SD cartridge, there are a lot of games to play.  Of course, there are SD cartridges for the 8bit line too.

I was answering your initial comment about "if you like cartridges and not disks, the 5200 would be the way to go". But, in any case, if you wanna talk about cart releases only from back in the day, or cart games total available now (which would count 8-bit to 5200 conversions on the 5200 side, and 8-bit disk and executable to cart conversions for the 8-bit side), or total games that could be played from an SD (which would mean the entire 8-bit computer library), the 8-bit computers have many, many more games, no matter how you want to slice it. It's no contest.

 

Some people might not be familiar with just how large the 8-bit cartridge library was from back in the day. So, as a starting point, Atarimania's database of cartridges in its games category currently totals 475, of which they probably have a couple hand fulls of modern cart releases and some protos that wouldn't really be considered playable games. So, it's pretty safe to say there's 450 total in their database that would actually count; and, as I say, those are just from back in the day of the machine's production and sales.

 

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

Funny because the graphics is what I don't like about Dropzone.  That big man makes it easier for the aliens to hit you

I'm not really trying to compare spacemen to spaceships here. What I'm talking about is the graphic detail (graphic artwork) and smooth movement of the graphics (scrolling, sprite movement, explosions) in Drop Zone. Atari's Defender is quite jerky in movement and rather plain in graphic details by comparison.

 

Granted, Atari's Defender on the 8-bits and 5200 are just trying to emulate the arcade, which is designed in a particular style as the author intended; but Maclean's animation-smoothness certainly replicates the arcade much better in all aspects. If you want an idea of how Maclean would have done Defender and Stargate, boot up these two prototypes to help bridge the gap between Drop Zone and how well his Defender and Startgate games would have turned out.

 

[Note: For StarGate, the <START> key needs to be pressed after the Stargage logo is fully loaded.]

 

Defender (Maclean).xex

 

Stargate (Maclean).xex

 

[christo930]

4 minutes ago, MrFish said:

I was answering your initial comment about "if you like cartridges and not disks, the 5200 would be the way to go". But, in any case, if you wanna talk about cart releases only from back in the day, or cart games total available now (which would count 8-bit to 5200 conversions on the 5200 side, and 8-bit disk and executable to cart conversions for the 8-bit side), or total games that could be played from an SD (which would mean the entire 8-bit computer library), the 8-bit computers have many, many more games, no matter how you want to slice it. It's no contest.

I mean games available as a cartridge ROM which you could load onto an SD cartridge which both the 5200 and 8bit line have.  Sorry if I didn't explain that well.  I would not be including games that can be run from a virtual disk image emulated in some way in modern hardware.  Disk images are not as convenient as cartridge images. You still have to screw around with the keyboard. They often have trainers you have to step through. Often have a demo-scene type thing that runs before the game.

 

6 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Some people might not be familiar with just how large the 8-bit cartridge library was from back in the day. So, as a starting point, Atarimania's database of cartridges in its games category currently totals 475, of which they probably have a couple hand fulls of modern cart releases and some protos that wouldn't really be considered playable games. So, it's pretty safe to say there's 450 total in their database that would actually count; and, as I say, those are just from back in the day of the machine's production and sales.

I asked if you were sure because I wasn't sure how many carts were available for the 8bit series.  But if it is 475 and most of them are games, I would assume the 5200 probably cannot keep up, though I am not sure the total numbers of 8bit games ported to 5200 cartridge format.

[christo930]

2 minutes ago, MrFish said:

. If you want an idea of how Maclean would have done Defender and Stargate, boot up these two prototypes to help bridge the gap between Drop Zone and how well his Defender and Startgate games would have turned out.

Thanks, I'll check them out. 

I saw a video some time ago that said he was working on getting them (I think it was both, but I know for sure Defender) released as official Atari releases.  Had he been able to do that, he probably wouldn't have changed them up.

[+MrFish]

3 minutes ago, christo930 said:

I saw a video some time ago that said he was working on getting them (I think it was both, but I know for sure Defender) released as official Atari releases.  Had he been able to do that, he probably wouldn't have changed them up.

Yes, these are demos that he was attempting to get Atari's attention with so that he could create the games for them. Apparently Atari already had Defender in the works at that time; and subsequently turned down his offer.

 

BTW, I'm not sure if this Atari 8-bit proto for Defender had a 5200 counterpart. This is a version that was apparently done before Atari's release version; but it's quite different from the release version (different graphics mode, etc.). I forget if it was the same author of the final Atari Defender of not. It's actually pretty cool, and has a few things I like better than the final Defender Atari released.

 

Defender (Rev 2 Proto).car

 

[+MrFish]

17 hours ago, christo930 said:

I mean games available as a cartridge ROM which you could load onto an SD cartridge which both the 5200 and 8bit line have.  Sorry if I didn't explain that well.  I would not be including games that can be run from a virtual disk image emulated in some way in modern hardware.  Disk images are not as convenient as cartridge images. You still have to screw around with the keyboard. They often have trainers you have to step through. Often have a demo-scene type thing that runs before the game.

I would agree that ROM images (or even real ROM cartridges) are nice for instant loading. Although most ATR's aren't what I'd consider slow loading from an SD card. Executable files (XEX) are even quicker loading from an SD; so, the difference with them becomes less relevant.

 

The issue of having to bypass trainers or demo-scene title screens is rather nitpicking here; but, for the vast majority of available games on the 8-bit computers, there exists clean versions that don't have trainers or demo-scene title screens to deal with. So, the issue is easily eliminated.

 

17 hours ago, christo930 said:

I asked if you were sure because I wasn't sure how many carts were available for the 8bit series.  But if it is 475 and most of them are games, I would assume the 5200 probably cannot keep up, though I am not sure the total numbers of 8bit games ported to 5200 cartridge format.

I would imagine there are probably no more than 100 8-bit to 5200 conversions available. So, if you add those to commercial releases and homebrews, you're going to end up with around 200 games or so for the 5200.

 

For the 8-bits, you take 450 and add homebrews, and take disk and XEX games that were converted to cartridge format at some point. I currently have 532 ROM file games in my main, sorted collection folder. A few of these are duplicate titles that use different cartridge banking schemes. So, I'd estimate a little over 520 unique titles. I still have a fair number of unsorted ROM files that haven't been added to my main collection folder; but we can just let those go, as it's apparent there's no real contest for overall number of games available, even if we just restrict things to ROM files.

 

I still think most executables files (XEX) are quite close in load times compared with ROM files, when we're talking about loading from SD carts. Counting XEX files is a little difficult. For sure there are thousands available. Many of these are rather simple games, or bad ones; so, I'd hardly consider counting everything; more relevant here are the solid games in the library. I'd estimate the total solid games to be somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000. What I've gone through and sorted isn't enough to prove quite that many. I currently have 1,185 sorted, tested, games that I consider to be solid, or at least interesting enough to spend time playing around with; but since playing games isn't my only objective for using the 8-bit computers, I haven't spent as much time doing that as some others out there have. Fandal's Atari 8-bit computer games site lists 4,964 games. I estimate that maybe half of those are at least decent games; but I leave it to someone else to determine exactly how many would qualify here.

 

[christo930]

37 minutes ago, MrFish said:

The issue of having to bypass trainers or demo-scene title screens is rather nitpicking here

While it certainly wouldn't be as big a bother in a real hardware situation, I can tell you how much I hate these things playing on a portable device with a virtual keyboard.  Of course, the virtual keyboard covers up the part of the screen I need to see...  OTOH, it certainly won't pass a couch compliance test to have to constantly get up to hit keys on the keyboard using real hardware.

 

41 minutes ago, MrFish said:

I would imagine there are probably no more than 100 8-bit to 5200 conversions available. So, if you add those to commercial releases and homebrews, you're going to end up with around 200 games or so for the 5200.

I was trying to explain that I was literally asking you and not posting some kind of rhetorical question.  Though I can easily see why it might have been seen as something other than a literal question.  I'm just not as familiar with the 8bit line. I have an 800 and an XEGS, but the collections aren't that big.  These days I'm usually using emulation.  I got my XEGS around the turn of the century.  Then sometime later, maybe 02, I picked up the 800XL.  Though I find them interesting, they don't get the kind of attention from me that the Atari consoles get.

 

 

45 minutes ago, MrFish said:

I currently have 1,185 sorted, tested, games that I consider to be solid, or at least interesting enough to spend time playing around with; but since playing games isn't my only objective for using the 8-bit computers, I haven't spent as much time doing that as some others out there have.

 

In general, I find probably the majority of the 8 bit computer diskette and cassette games to be terrible (particularly familiar with the 64 and Amigas).  Granted, given the sheer numbers involved, it's still at a minimum, hundreds of games worth looking at and spending at least some time with.  There was just a whole lot of crap on the various computers of the age.  There was basically close to zero barrier to entry with these games and the huge payoff potential made them a juicy target for everyone's shovelware and crapware.  While there is no shortage of crap on cartridges, I don't think the ratio is as bad.  You started to really see this on PCs in the mid 90s and beyond, but I don't pay any attention to modern gaming, say, after y2k.

[+MrFish]

11 minutes ago, christo930 said:

While it certainly wouldn't be as big a bother in a real hardware situation, I can tell you how much I hate these things playing on a portable device with a virtual keyboard.

Actually, I don't like them either, even on real hardware or emulation on a PC. That's why I said that clean versions of nearly all games exist that don't have either trainers or demo-scene titles. So, it's literally not an issue. My entire collection of sorted, tested games is clean from these annoyances. If I have a trained copy of a game (for the sake of cheating occasionally), I also have a non-trained copy.

 

[5200Fanatic]

The 5200 made itself obsolete. Even though the controllers were cool, it was the early 80's and there's no internet, no readibly available replacement parts, and by the time your controllers were broken it was tough to find replacements. At the endish of the console's short lifecyche, I had to buy a new 5200 to just get functioning controllers.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Living (mostly) in PAL territory at the time, I never got to see the 5200 blossom into a beautiful flower, wither, and die.

 

That makes it perpetually springtime-fresh to me!