Adventure - Dead Dragon (He was dead when I got there! I swear!)

[Lost Monkey]

I've been playing Adventure since about 1981.   I have played it a lot.  

 

Tonight, something happened that I don't think I have seen before.

 

I started the game - variation 3 - went down to the right of the maze in the White castle area and found the sword.   The Green dragon came down from the room above and I killed him.  At that point the bat swooped in and took the sword.

 

I went to the White castle, found nothing and headed to the blue maze.   When I got to the 2nd screen above the blue maze entrance the yellow dragon was sitting there dead.  In other words, either the dragon had run himself into the bat with the sword or the bat had killed the dragon with the sword....  I think?

 

I tried searching (for discussions) of this happening, but couldn't find anything - this certainly seems possible, but I would have thought there would be limitations on which offscreen objects had collision checking code.

[Tinman]

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that happen. I think if the dragon touches the sword it doesn’t matter who is holding it, or if it’s being held at all. As long as there isn’t too much flicker from other items in the room, the dragon will be killed.

[4ever2600]

He was dead when I got there! I swear!

 

Is that what you told the 911 operator? 🤣

Edited April 7 by 4ever2600

[zzip]

On 4/6/2024 at 9:28 AM, Tinman said:

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that happen. I think if the dragon touches the sword it doesn’t matter who is holding it, or if it’s being held at all. As long as there isn’t too much flicker from other items in the room, the dragon will be killed.

Doesn't the dragon have to be onscreen to be killed by the sword?    I don't think I've ever seen it happen any other way,

[+Atari_Warlord]

38 minutes ago, zzip said:

Doesn't the dragon have to be onscreen to be killed by the sword?    I don't think I've ever seen it happen any other way,

No, it can happen off screen.  I've seen this scenario a few times when the bat steals the sword.

[+SvOlli]

I've been digging through the code of Adventure quite a lot for a project to be released later this year.

 

From what I've seen so far, the bat can pick something else up off screen, but the code for the sword touching anything relies on the collision detection of the hardware sprites. Just looked.

[Lost Monkey]

On 4/8/2024 at 2:56 PM, SvOlli said:

I've been digging through the code of Adventure quite a lot for a project to be released later this year.

 

From what I've seen so far, the bat can pick something else up off screen, but the code for the sword touching anything relies on the collision detection of the hardware sprites. Just looked.

I haven't looked at the code, but this is what I believed to be the case. 

 

The only thing different about this situation was that I was playing the cart that came with the 2600+ on an original junior.  It was the first time I had used this cart with original hardware.  

[kjames_s_2000]

I've also played alot of Adventure probably since about 1982 or so (I'm only 58!) and could swear I noticed something with the 10-in-1 that I haven't seen before.

I opened the gate to the white castle, leaving the key outside.  After going inside I saw the bat flapping its wings, but otherwise not moving.  I don't recall ever seeing the bat stationary before.  I've only experience this once using the 10-in-1 version of Adventure on the 2600+.  I can't definitively say I never saw it on original hardware in the past 42 years, but it did strike me as something I've never seen before.  I suppose it could be a quirk of Stella or the 10-in-1.  Certainly doesn't take anything away from my enjoyment of either Adventure or the 2600+, but was a bit jarring to me when I saw it.

[zzip]

14 hours ago, kjames_s_2000 said:

I've also played alot of Adventure probably since about 1982 or so (I'm only 58!) and could swear I noticed something with the 10-in-1 that I haven't seen before.

I opened the gate to the white castle, leaving the key outside.  After going inside I saw the bat flapping its wings, but otherwise not moving.  I don't recall ever seeing the bat stationary before.  I've only experience this once using the 10-in-1 version of Adventure on the 2600+.  I can't definitively say I never saw it on original hardware in the past 42 years, but it did strike me as something I've never seen before.  I suppose it could be a quirk of Stella or the 10-in-1.  Certainly doesn't take anything away from my enjoyment of either Adventure or the 2600+, but was a bit jarring to me when I saw it.

Yes that used to happen on original hardware too!  but it was rare.   And the bat would start moving as soon as it saw another treasure or dragon.    My friends and I used to call it the "stunned bat".   And one of the challenges we'd engage in is try to move the bat and all the treasures and dragons around the kingdom without reanimating the bat.

 

There was also a rare instance where the bat started off with no treasure and we'd try to keep it from ever picking anything up.

[+Gemintronic]

I may be just making things up at this point.

 

Could have sworn you could drop the bat into the inside of the yellow castle.  Vaguely remember dragging the bat around when he and I grabbed the same item.  Shoved him into the yellow castle and he tended to stay there so one could adventure forth with less problems.

[zzip]

5 minutes ago, Gemintronic said:

Could have sworn you could drop the bat into the inside of the yellow castle.  It used to seem hard for him to escape the yellow castle inside so I'd drop him off and go grocery shopping for items.

If the bat was flying in an upward direction or horizontal direction when you captured him, and assuming he didn't spot another treasure or dragon while you were carrying him that caused him to change direction,  then yes you could drop him in the yellow castle and he can't escape.

 

If he was flying in a downward direction, he will escape.

 

If there are other items in the castle,  it's likely he will change directions when he gets bored with his current item and eventually escape.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 hours ago, Gemintronic said:

I may be just making things up at this point.

 

Could have sworn you could drop the bat into the inside of the yellow castle.  Vaguely remember dragging the bat around when he and I grabbed the same item.  Shoved him into the yellow castle and he tended to stay there so one could adventure forth with less problems.

As @zzip stated this is totally a tactic you can use. But you also need to make sure that you lock up the yellow castle and keep the key outside because many times I would trap the bat with nothing else inside the yellow castle, and he would still get out when a dragon off screen, I assume wandered into the open gate and thereby entered the castle? That is the only explanation I can come up with since usually when I noticed the bat had escaped he usually was carrying a dragon with him.

 

And I'e also experienced the bat bringing me dead dragons that I hadn't even encountered in the game yet, and more than once I've found one of the dragons dead that I didn't do. So if the objects can only interact when they are being shown, then how the heck does the bat grab things off screen to begin with? Isn't the same collision rules in place for the bat to be able to pick up stuff?

 

I'm pretty confident the bat can grab the sword and kill dragons off screen with it by simple flying over them but since it all takes place off screen, it isn't able to be 'seen' happening to confirm this?

 

[zzip]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

As @zzip stated this is totally a tactic you can use. But you also need to make sure that you lock up the yellow castle and keep the key outside because many times I would trap the bat with nothing else inside the yellow castle, and he would still get out when a dragon off screen, I assume wandered into the open gate and thereby entered the castle? That is the only explanation I can come up with since usually when I noticed the bat had escaped he usually was carrying a dragon with him.

 

And I'e also experienced the bat bringing me dead dragons that I hadn't even encountered in the game yet, and more than once I've found one of the dragons dead that I didn't do. So if the objects can only interact when they are being shown, then how the heck does the bat grab things off screen to begin with? Isn't the same collision rules in place for the bat to be able to pick up stuff?

 

I'm pretty confident the bat can grab the sword and kill dragons off screen with it by simple flying over them but since it all takes place off screen, it isn't able to be 'seen' happening to confirm this?

 

The bat can grab off-screen items,  that happens all the time.

 

But I've never seen an off-screen dragon kill.  I'd love to see it though!

 

  If something touches the open gate of a castle,  this will attract the bat's attention (in the white/black castle, he needs to be on the entrance screen),  and he will escape that way.    If a dragon touches the open gate and leaves,  this could cause the bat to escape...    But I think you have to be on the screen for the dragon gate collision detection to work?   or maybe it's just that dragons look for an object to guard when you aren't around,  and the chances of them randomly touching a gate when your aren't around are slim?

 

So I don't recall ever seeing the bat escape a castle if he's in the castle with a single object and not on a downward trajectory.   I don't think a dragon can enter a castle when you are offscreen,  but I'd love to see this happen

[jerseystyle]

This thread is giving me flashbacks about playing with my grandpa back in the day (I’m 46). He hated that “frikkin bat”.

Edited April 11 by jerseystyle

[kjames_s_2000]

Just to prove I've played waaay too much Adventure over the years... You can even paralyze a dragon (at least the yellow one)...
 

1) Open the gold castle with the key on top of your square avatar.
2) Flip the color/BW switch to BW (just so you can see the gold key overlapping the similar color castle wall).
3) Move your square close to the top/right inner castle wall, the key will wrap over to be 'stuck' in the bottom right castle wall.
4) Release the key so it remains stuck around the bottom/right inner castle wall and flip the color/BW back to color.
5) Exit the castle and go looking for the yellow dragon.
6) Lure the yellow dragon back to the outside of the gold castle - towards the bottom right of the screen.
7) Next is the slightly tricky part that requires some timing and may take a few attempts
8] Move from the bottom right of the screen (outside gold castle) in a right-to-left motion so that the yellow dragon take a chomp and hesitates around the bottom right area.
9) Continue to move your square left and then up around the left side of the gold castle, timing it so the yellow dragon gets sucked in through the open castle gate as he pursues you.
10) Quickly go back and enter the castle.  
11) If you are quick enough you will see the yellow dragon running away from the gold key (Yorgle alway runs away from the gold key) at an angle and then disappear into the lower left inner castle wall.
12) Flip the color/BW switch to BW and you can see the yellow dragon's head stuck in the lower left castle was as he is paralyzed!
13) Note: you can un-paralyze the yellow dragon by getting the magnet and pulling the yellow key out from being stuck in the lower right inner castle wall.  The yellow dragon will then go running away on an angle away from the key.

 

Edited April 12 by kjames_s_2000