Comments on 2600 Millipede by 3 coin-op engineers, 1/23/84.

[Dutchman2000]

Found this interesting memo on a tape backup:

 

Comments about 2600 Millipede cart dated 1/23/84,
by Todd Walker, Eric Ginner, and Franz Lanzinger  1-31-84

Bar at bottom is probably there to show the edge of the screen.
Is this really necessary?

Bees are to wide, and they fall much faster than in the coin-op.

DT should say DDT.  They are transparent when they ought to be solid
(you can see mushrooms behind the DDT sometimes).

shooter ought to be different color than mushrooms

1200 score looks strange, yet 1000 looks good.

Heads of millipede segments don't stay at bottom two full times across.

DDT bomb explosion too tall, and not wide enough

Inchworm slow down player too, not just the creatures

No collision detect between millipede segments and other motion objects.
This is a serious problem, causing segments to overlay one another sometimes.
You'll shoot what looks like one segment, and there is another behind it
to kill you (unfair!).

The screen scrolls wildly sometimes on higher levels, completely screwing up
the players orientation. We have this on tape.

Doesn't tell you when the next bonus is at bottom of the screen.

No collision detect between player and mushrooms.

Segments come down way too fast after hitting poisoned mushrooms.

After hitting inchworm, sidefeed sends out two segments at a time.

No 2 player option.

Sidefeed too fast (much more difficult than in coin-op, especially at
higher levels, where it seems impossible to deal with, even at the start
of a game).

Bees leave an evenly spaced trail of mushrooms. Ought to be random.

Beetle is counted as part of bonus wave (shouldn't be).

Sequence of bonus waves may be off (too many bee waves).

DDT explosion stopped short once, don't know why.

Bonus waves don't increase in duration at higher scores (this is the
"best part about millipede" according to FXL)

Shots that hit millipede keep going to the top of the screen. We have this
on tape too.

The trick flower trick doesn't work (probably because there is no collision
detect between player and mushrooms).  The trick works like this:  You sit
directly underneath a flower, and when the screen scrolls down the flower
gets erased.  This lets you get rid of a particularly pesky flower in the
coin-op version.

If this was helpful in any way, give a copy of this to Steve Calfee.

 

[Tempest]

I wonder how many of those were fixed?  It's been a long time since I went through the game.  I know there's a 1/4/84 proto that must have many of these issues

 

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/millipede/1484.htm

[Pitfall Harry]

36 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I know there's a 1/4/84 proto that must have many of these issues

 

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/millipede/1484.htm

 

Or at least there was such a proto at one time.  Whether it still exists today is anybody's guess, unless you know something we don't know.

 

-Ben

[Tempest]

11 hours ago, Pitfall Harry said:

 

Or at least there was such a proto at one time.  Whether it still exists today is anybody's guess, unless you know something we don't know.

Of course there was, it just hasn't been found yet.  I have a proto from 1/4/84 which is about three weeks earlier than the one they were discussion but it probably has most if not all the issues they were complaining about.  Here's the rom.

Millipede (1-4-84).bin

[Dutchman2000]

Here's another memo:

Since everyone else seems to be on the subject I might as well add my two 
bits worth.

First, regarding testing and review of 2600, 5200, 800,... software.  In
the past I was given carts to review, and in some cases they ignored my
comments.  In particular, for the 800 Centipede I saw a bootleg copy and
send my comments back only get see the shit hit the fan because I managed
to see the cart which should not have been possible.  Months later I was
officially given a newer version to test.  I noted some problems and asked
that the game play match the Coin-Op version in several aspects.  I was
told that it was too late because they couldn't make the changes in time 
for the release.  More recently I attended a meeting to decide which
Millipede cart for the 2600 should be released.  The release date was less
than a week away and I was told that the programmer had just gotten one
version working within the last couple of weeks (and only possible thru
7 day work weeks and considerable lack of sleep).  I should also point
out that I sent the complete documentation of Millipede to the team leader
responsible for the VCS cart months prior to this meeting.  I also called
and left my name and number with the comment that I was available for
any assistance.  I received no response until a week or two prior to the
above mentioned meeting.  This leds me to believe that the game was not 
ready for help until the time of the meeting (thus verifying the hearsay
that the game had just been developed in the last two weeks).

Now for the good news!  ATARI did select the VCS version of Millipede over
the version done by GCC.  I was told that GCC was instructed NOT to do this
cart but they went ahead and did it anyway.  I guess they felt that if they
got it done first ATARI marketing would use theirs.  Judging from the 
meeting I attended, I would guess that they were right.  In any case I have
worked with the VCS programmer since and hopefully the cart has improved.
I do NOT mean to say that I necessarily helped but that the cart just needed
time.  I should point out that the cart was not released due to a bug!  Now
why didn't we think of this before?  That sounds like a good strategy to 
follow.  The only reason I was given why the cart was to be released within
a week of the meeting was to have ONE week worth of sales for the first
quarter.  WHAT A SHITTY, GOD DAMNED, FUCKING CSDKFHAS FHLAVFHJ EXCUSE!!!!
What ever happened to quality which the name ATARI is supposed to represent?
Where was VCS management??  I would hope that someone would stand up and
say "THE GAME IS NOT READY.  WE WILL RELEASE IT WHEN IT IS DONE!!"  Who 
are they trying to make look good?  Why impress Warner with 1 weeks worth
of production, when you can impress the consumer 2 weeks later?  It seems
short-sighted to make themselves look good at the expense of ATARI's
reputation.  

Well enough of that, I want to get back on the subject of good news.  Months 
ago I also reviewed a Millipede for the 800 (or 5200 I don't remember).  I 
sent my comments back and just last week received a letter back for Richard 
Frick thanking me and giving me a list of changes they have implemented.
When I talked to him he recalled when the comments came back and how the
programmer grumbled about doing any more changes.  However after the
changes were made the programmer has become very excited about the new
program.  Now ISN'T that a heart warming story.  It sure made my week.
I hope we see more cooperation like that in the future.

Second, as Franz hinted I never received a copy of Centipede to review from
ATARISOFT nor was I even told about any Centipede carts.  Ignoring the
fact that is rather insulting, it is not in the best interests of ATARI.
We should demand quality from any product ATARI puts its name on. 
Considering there is expertise here in Coin-Op to test and evaluate this
product, they should be very interested in hearing from us.  Since there
were no designer credits, I guess it was hard for them to dtermine who
to come to but they could have found out.

Since there seems to be new policies regarding credits for our games and
since there seems to be a lack of trust between certain individuals and
management, couldn't we have some WRITTEN information of these policies.  
In particular, can someone reassure us that the current bonus program is 
still in effect and will remain so until xxxxx.  Can the current policy on 
credits be written down and include if possible the current policy on credits 
with respect to 2600, 5200, 800, and ATARISOFT conversions.  For everyones 
information I was not told that my name would appear on the 2600 Millipede
documentation.  I had to ask Steve Calfee.  In fact it seems logical that 
the names  of all members of the Coin-Op team responsible for developing 
the game should appear.  Can someone write down whether the ASTARISOFT 
software will bring royalties to Coin-OP?

Now for my pet pieve, can we get a little better accounting on
the bonus program?  I was given verbal assurance by John Farrand that this
was possible but maybe he doesn't understand how hard or time consumming
this is.  In the past ATARI didn't want to do this because this would 
release information that the competition is not supposed to know.  In fact
if you want to know the VCS sales of a cart, just call your friends at
Activision or Imagic or Starpath for the info.  I was also told that the
other divisions just paid monies to Coin-Op but did not supply the number
of units sold or other info.  With the new organization I would hope that
this information would be available.  The kind of information I would like 
to see with our bonus checks is 1) Coin-Op units sold (at full price) 2) those
sold at a loss (thus no royalties for them) 3) Coin-Op kits sold (as
above) 4) same for 2600, 800, 5200 and ATARISOFT.


P.S. They (Marketing) released the 2600 Millipede on Monday before they
	could test the cart for the required 40 hrs.  There was a screen
	roll failure after 35 hrs.  So by the book they should not have 
	passed the cart for release.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Marketing has not improved since then, that's for sure.

[DEBRO]

@Dutchman2000 thank you for finding and sharing this. I particularly like the statement on the GCC version.

 

I have found the screen for Millipede does roll on higher levels. There can be a lot going on. Chances of reaching those levels can be slim (at least for me) but you can see it with the demo too if you let it play long enough.

 

Still, it is a great arcade replacement for me.

[else]

Quote

The release date was less
than a week away and I was told that the programmer had just gotten one
version working within the last couple of weeks (and only possible thru
7 day work weeks and considerable lack of sleep).

Sounds like how most software is released even today....

[amidarman]

9 hours ago, Dutchman2000 said:

Here's another memo:

 

 

That's from one of Jed Margolin's archived VAX emails - https://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/vmail.htm

[Dutchman2000]

57 minutes ago, amidarman said:

 

That's from one of Jed Margolin's archived VAX emails - https://www.jmargolin.com/vmail/vmail.htm

Yes, he has that too but I got this from a VAX/VMS backup tape of a VAX that belonged to Atari Coin-Op.....

[tremoloman2006]

Millipede is my favorite official Atari release!  Thank you for these tidbits!  I freaking love the 2600 version.  Even with joystick control it is extremely good.  Smokes Centipede IMHO.

[+Cafeman]

Interesting to read!  I just noticed this thread. 

[Rom Hunter]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:06 PM, DEBRO said:

@Dutchman2000 thank you for finding and sharing this. I particularly like the statement on the GCC version.

 

I have found the screen for Millipede does roll on higher levels. There can be a lot going on. Chances of reaching those levels can be slim (at least for me) but you can see it with the demo too if you let it play long enough.

 

Still, it is a great arcade replacement for me.

In Stella, the screen turns completely black after a while with only the title showing up in different colors.

No rolling, though.

[amidarman]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:46 PM, Dutchman2000 said:

Yes, he has that too but I got this from a VAX/VMS backup tape of a VAX that belonged to Atari Coin-Op.....

Jed Margolin worked in coin op and his info came from VAX tapes as well.

[Dutchman2000]

54 minutes ago, amidarman said:

Jed Margolin worked in coin op and his info came from VAX tapes as well.

Yes I know, I have copies of his tapes as well.......

[+Cafeman]

Are you guys actually reading old VAXVMS tapes with your own equipment somehow? If so, How does that work?

[Dutchman2000]

3 hours ago, Cafeman said:

Are you guys actually reading old VAXVMS tapes with your own equipment somehow? If so, How does that work?

The 9-track tapes I have were read with an M4 Data 9-track SCSI drive I have.  Tapes were converted to digital files, then extracted using specialized programs.  The main way I do it now is restore the data on my tape images to the virtual VAX (SIMH) then use FTP to transfer the files to my PC.