Robert M Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 In my mind the term 'Hack' should be reserved for changes made by editing a ROM binary image without any use of an assmebler. Homebrews by my definition involve changes to the executable code that require recompilation.e Homebrews can be broken down into 3 categories: 1. Original - From original source using no more than concepts or code snippets from other games. 2. Adaptation/Modification - Using an existing source listing as basis for adapting a different game to a console. 3. Extension - Expanding an existing game using its source code, and adding more functions or features while maintaining the original game as mechanics as much as possible. Examples of original homebrews would be: Thrust, SCSI-cide, Marble craze. Examples of Adaptations would be: the "Ace" game that sparked this thread. Examples of extensions would be: Voice Enhanced Berserk, and the optimized Adventure work in progress. Ultimately, the author should choose the category for their own work. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 For Pac26/Pac-Man Arcade it's actually a little murkier.... I wrote a nice little chunk of code for it, but I had no idea how to assemble an 8K ROM (and I still don't ) so I hand assembled the code using some 6502 docs and put it in the space I saved by getting rid of the other three mazes using a hex editor.... Hack? Hackbrew? Modification? Adaptation? I dunno, whatever, just so long as you don't confuse it with other people's real homebrews like Star Fire and Marble Craze and Oystron and Thrust and so on that should really be selling more than PMA in the Atariage store.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel 2 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 A month later, I've thought of a term I like for the intermediate step between hack and homebrew -- call it a hybrid. It's still someone else's work, but with significant creative effort put in by the hacker; so it's like crossing the original with a different strain, making it a hybrid. The word also fits in nicely between hack and homebrew since they all start with 'h' and they go from short to long (4, 6, and 8 letters). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I liked how Stan put it. But even further, perhaps the determining factor would be based on the percentage of self-written code. Hope that makes sense... I have the flu - and I wanna die. Shoot... gotta get to class. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I don't know, a month removed and I'm starting to think of "mods" as just really elaborate "hacks." Sure they require a knowledge of programming, but you are still just altering or adding code. Then again, that gives me pause. Suppose "hack" refers to an alteration of existing code, while a "mod" refers to the addition to existing code. Is that a worthwhile distinction or is that just confusing the issue further? And then how does one describe a game that does both? AAARRRGGGHHHH! I hate it when I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I don't know, a month removed and I'm starting to think of "mods" as just really elaborate "hacks." Sure they require a knowledge of programming, but you are still just altering or adding code. Then again, that gives me pause. Suppose "hack" refers to an alteration of existing code, while a "mod" refers to the addition to existing code. In my mind, the words "mod" and "hack" are the same, so I don't think one of these terms should be used to define hacks that are more elaborate than most. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liveinabin Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I don't see the middle ground. Either it's been hacked or it hasn't. I'm sure a lot of homebrew originals are made with routines borrowed from other programmers and their work. Perhaps this would make most 2600 games hacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I don't see the middle ground. I definately do. Things like Berzerk VE are nestled comfortably within it. Adding a key feature that was never intended for the original game, such as the voices, puts it a class that's completely different than simply being a cool graphics tweak like Return Of Mario Bros (no offense intended to Rhindle's excellent work, BTW). I'd go so far as to say that even Rob's Pac-Man Arcade hack would fall into this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xot Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I don't see the middle ground. I definately do. Things like Berzerk VE are nestled comfortably within it. Adding a key feature that was never intended for the original game, such as the voices, puts it a class that's completely different than simply being a cool graphics tweak like Return Of Mario Bros (no offense intended to Rhindle's excellent work, BTW). I'd go so far as to say that even Rob's Pac-Man Arcade hack would fall into this category. I agree with this 100%. Revenge of the Apes would therefore fall into this category as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I agree with this 100%. Revenge of the Apes would therefore fall into this category as well. For me the game is also just an advanced hack. And is categorizing really that important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanJr Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 it is if you want an award! oh and it probably helps cats like Albert who catalogue this stuff for database purposes and in the store and all..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 it is if you want an award! Ok, than RotA should be nominated in the "Advanced-bankswitched-hack-with-added-intermission-graphics,-cool-new-music-soundtrack,-minor-gameplay-improvements-in-great-Fox-style-package" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 And is categorizing really that important? - Thomas I think the extra information would be a nice addition to the AtariAge database. While some of us like to see whatever hacks people come up with, others are not at all interested in simple graphic hacks. When more complicated hacks (like yours :-) ) are combined with those far simpler graphic hacks, they might be overlooked by those who might otherwise really appreciate hacks that effect gameplay, music, etc. ... I really hate being sick - I never know if I'm making sense. :-( Someone bash my head in... quick! Or maybe just kick me a couple of times in face. :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 What the heck is Revenge of the Apes and why haven't I heard of it before? Is it some hack of some old Planet of the Apes game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Is it some hack of some old Planet of the Apes game? Yup!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I played this for the first time tonight - beat it within 5 minutes... on accident (Did I just get lucky? Or is it pretty easy?). The music kicks butt though. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I played this for the first time tonight - beat it within 5 minutes... on accident (Did I just get lucky? Or is it pretty easy?). It is quite easy, but that depends a little bit on the switches and the game variation. The original version was even easier (no monkeys from the left). Maybe you want to find the little easter egg now? The music kicks butt though. :-) Yup, that's absolutly great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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