8bitdo Retro Sega BT + 800XL controller issues

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Hi all, sorry to add to the multiple threads on the subject but I'm having some issues getting an 8bitdo retro bluetooth (sega) dongle + controller working on my 800XL. I made a simple adapter (per threads here), the dongle powers and pairs w/3 (so far) controllers, but I get no action from any buttons nor pads/sticks. The dongle and controller FW are up to date, and the controllers work fine via BT w/other devices.

 

From the many related threads there are several contradictory instructions (example: pigtail a wire from pin7/atari to pin5/8bitdo; jumper a cable from p7 to p5 AND disconnect/abandon their complements; my sega controller has always been plug and play, no adapter needed; etc etc.) that make it hard to troubleshoot.

 

I'll try pigtailing, but any clarifications or advice would be very welcome, thanks!

 

 

Edited April 24 by WOPRpwJOSHUA
Add photos

[Beeblebrox]

 

 

Might be some insight here above btw

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

54 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

 

 

Might be some insight here above btw

Yeah that's one of a few I've referenced to make mine. I've tried it in 2 configurations but neither worked. There are a few others that include some pcb/breadboards that include transistors/resistors but at that point I'd just get an Adladdin (which I may do anyway). It could be that I have a faulty 8bitdo dongle. 

[manterola]

I connected pin 5 and pin 7, and it has been working perfectly for years. It actually works for games that support two buttons.

 

 

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

11 hours ago, manterola said:

I connected pin 5 and pin 7, and it has been working perfectly for years. It actually works for games that support two buttons.

 

 

I've done this via a simple rewire mod cable and I get no response from buttons nor stick. I've tried both pigtail wire (leaving wire 5 connected) and wiring pin7 to pin5 and abandoning their mates at the pins. Both power it up and the (3 different) controllers pair, but no response to any controls.

[_The Doctor__]

are you sure of your pin out understanding, as plug and jack are reversed when mating?

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

46 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

are you sure of your pin out understanding, as plug and jack are reversed when mating?

Definitely, and checked continuity of each configuration. I'm rewiring again now to pigtail 7 to 5 just at the dongle din end w/a diff (gauge) wire, maybe there's an issue with the wire large enough to affect communication.

 

Edit: rewire has same result - no controller response. This might be a faulty controller (I've no other atari nor sega to check it with).

I'll maybe open it up and do the pigtail internally now, though I expect the same result.

 

@manterola did you only *add* a wire across pins, or did you *also* clip/abandon either? (there are accounts of both in threads here)

Edited April 25 by WOPRpwJOSHUA
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[_The Doctor__]

I think the question was, did you isolate the pins before the rewire inside the 8 bit do?

An external adapter or pigtail would not require that in theory...

make sure you Atari ports are still fully functional and no passive inductors/components have been cooked/damaged.

Same check inside the do.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

I think the question was, did you isolate the pins before the rewire inside the 8 bit do?

An external adapter or pigtail would not require that in theory...

make sure you Atari ports are still fully functional and no passive inductors/components have been cooked/damaged.

Same check inside the do.

Your question or mine to @manterola? 

I agree in theory, trying 3 (dongle mod) permutations via handwired adapter cable had the same (failed) result. 

I tried them out on both ports, same result. I have no other joysticks/devices (yet) to try out, but I can open it up this afternoon and poke around it w/a logic probe after I find the signal specs online (Sams Computer Facts probably?). 

@_The Doctor__ do the Salt carts diagnose controller ports?

 

Edit: I should include, I tested an Hyperkin Ranger that worked fine w/games, another reason I don't think it's that the ports are faulty. 

Edited April 25 by WOPRpwJOSHUA
add'l info

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Confirmed, no issue with either joystick port (using a Gemini controller works fine). 

At this point, it's either a faulty 8bitdo dongle (or changed FW to disable the atari workaround?) or I've missed something about their compatibility/usage. 

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Replacement 8bitdo Retro dongle on the way, hopefully this sorts it. 

 

Edit: before I return I documented/photo'd the board, this one is a V5 (MDRR 83FA V5), produced in May 2023. I'll follow up w/the replacement. I'd be interested if anyone w/a board made in 5/23 up through current has had the same issue(s?) - to that end, I'll peek at the replacement's board and document it. 

Edited April 26 by WOPRpwJOSHUA
Board info

[Beeblebrox]

Just a quick thought, and sorry if missed it, but does your A8's joystick port definitely work running an Atari joystick? 

Just wanted to double check your actual machine/it's port and pokey is ok

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Just now, Beeblebrox said:

Just a quick thought, and sorry if missed it, but does your A8's joystick port definitely work running an Atari joystick? 

Just wanted to double check your actual machine/it's port and pokey is ok

Yes, tested w/a Hyperkin (before 8bitdo retro arrived) and then yesterday w/a Gemini controller (after thorough testing w/the dongle + adapter cable): both controllers worked fine. Tested at both ports. 

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Replacement 8bitdo Retro BT dongle arrived, tested using handwired adapter cable, same result: it powers up, pairs, but no response to button presses or sticks/dpad. I went ahead and for completeness (knowing there'd be no reason this would work any differently) did the jumper mod on the dongle itself (see pics) with again the same result.

 

This replacement dongle board has the same markings and mfgr date as the one I previously just tested and returned: Rev 5, May 2023.

 

 

Unless i've missed some important interface/activation to use these with Atari systems, the latest 8bitdo Retro bluetooth dongles for Sega being sold on Amazon - in my current experience(s) testing them - *do not* work with Atari even after performing either the dongle mod nor an equivalent simple diy wiring scheme (found in threads on this forum).

 

The two dongles/samples both have the same stamps/dates: "MDDR 83FA V5 2247" with a 5/2023 (board?) mfgr date. 

 

I'd try a 3rd party adapter like the Adladdin but there's no reason to think it could work - the dongle is effectively a brick without a Sega system. 

 

Any ideas or considerations, I'm happy to hear. 

[Mr Robot]

This might be a dumb question but have you got the controller in the right mode? It needs to be in dinput mode, turn it on by pressing Start+B.

I guess you've tried all the modes, I'm just asking to check it off the list.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

14 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

This might be a dumb question but have you got the controller in the right mode? It needs to be in dinput mode, turn it on by pressing Start+B.

I guess you've tried all the modes, I'm just asking to check it off the list.

Uh oh..does that include the Arcade stick? Let me go check again

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

22 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

This might be a dumb question but have you got the controller in the right mode? It needs to be in dinput mode, turn it on by pressing Start+B.

I guess you've tried all the modes, I'm just asking to check it off the list.

Yes, I've paired both in D and X modes on the Arcade stick. I paired in whatever the default mode is on the 8bitdo Sega bluetooth controller (and switched btwn 3 and 6 buttons), and whatever the default mode used to pair a Switch Pro (I assume S mode...) and the dongle. Just tried the stick again (and used Start+B too with both modes...why not..) and still nothing. Just to reiterate, the dongle has always powered up (w/the handmade adapter and via the dongle mod) and paired easily w/the 3 controllers, but there is no response to any button pushes/sticks/etc. All of the controllers work perfectly, both ports work fine (pin voltages tested), and 2 Atari compatible (plug+play) controllers work perfectly. 

[_The Doctor__]

odd in that others use it in past just without issue. looks like something is being over looked as the method the joystick employ are the same the only difference being power pin and return, otherwise dpad is high or low for direction weather it be Sega, C64, or Atari.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

27 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

odd in that others use it in past just without issue. looks like something is being over looked as the method the joystick employ are the same the only difference being power pin and return, otherwise dpad is high or low for direction weather it be Sega, C64, or Atari.

I think it's odd in the same way it's odd there are so many different variations of what people have done to get it to work, and a few who haven't. If you read through the threads, it's kind of a mess. I chose the most common approach that seems to have worked for most. But there is definitely not anything I've overlooked afa wiring scheme or dongle mod, and the computer and regular controllers are all working/behaving 100%. 

The most often failure in the threads involves power routing and then pairing, and I'm having no problem w/either. 

So it's either some activation mode on the 8bitdo side that I've not read/found, or they've done something to prevent/preempt one from using it on an Atari. I'm hoping it's the former, but....

[manterola]

Yes, very odd.

Just want to reiterate, I did the exact modification you did, nothing else, a piece of wire between pin 5 and 7, and then I pair it with a Nintendo pro controller, that's it. Your can see the version of the board on the pictures, and I also got mine from Amazon but like 3 years ago.

It doesn't make sense... The controller adapter shouldn't know whether it is a Sega Genesis or not... Or maybe it does know...by checking that the console is not trying to poll the 3rd button and start button and actually not toggling the multiplexer. Just brainstorming here.

Edited April 28 by manterola

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

10 hours ago, manterola said:

Yes, very odd.

Just want to reiterate, I did the exact modification you did, nothing else, a piece of wire between pin 5 and 7, and then I pair it with a Nintendo pro controller, that's it. Your can see the version of the board on the pictures, and I also got mine from Amazon but like 3 years ago.

It doesn't make sense... The controller adapter shouldn't know whether it is a Sega Genesis or not... Or maybe it does know...by checking that the console is not trying to poll the 3rd button and start button and actually not toggling the multiplexer. Just brainstorming here.

@manterola your post was one of the ref's I used for modding mine building mine (seems the most common+easy+successful mod). If you look back through threads at what's worked or not, as a whole it gets pretty weird...there's a spectrum of mods, diy cables, and 3rd party cables that have and haven't worked w/this retro dongle for Ataris (here's one of many that threads found on AA - and other forums - that demonstrates there seems to be no definitive method and/or why they all do/don't work): 

 The 1 wire dongle mod seems the most recent+easy of the diy mods, so I went w/that as reference for my cable and the mod. Most (..not everyone) seem to have gotten it to work this way, most recently (say 2020 - 2023 timeframe).

 

I strongly suspect the reason is on the 8bitdo side, and very likely they are using the method you mention (and/or similar). I base that on:

1. Generally most issues seem to have been getting it powered (pin7 to pin5) then paired;

2. This mod seems to have been very successful up through about 2022 - 23;

3. I've tried 2 diff samples, both w/the same board markings/mfgr date 5/2023, both would power and pair, but no input registers on the Atari;

4. All revisions on boards I've happened on in the forums are R4 and earlier, and the threads were 2023 and prior;

5. Several threads (including on other forums) where buyers had issues getting it to work on Atari mention contacting customer support, with couple mentioning CS responses alluding to upcoming potential products designed for Atari in this timeframe;

6. The pcb design/components differ from R5 to R4 and before;

7. 8bitdo (very reasonably, still) make no claims to interoperability w/Atari (with or without any mod), though they certainly benefit from them working (...with/out that mod);

 

Nothing else makes sense to me (assuming there's no other trick to getting these to communicate after pairing). But if I'm 8bitdo and have recognized a new revenue stream by making an atari-specific dongle, it does make sense that they their latest revision might include a way to block the workarounds, if they've got an Atari product in the very near future. Whether that guess proves correct or not, that doesn't solve my problem...

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Well, my order for the Blue Retro bluetooth dongle finally arrived. Not too bad a shape, considering they ship w/o an outer box..

Here's the 'core'..

...aaand they sent the NES version cables...

Double checked and I did indeed order the Sega Gen version..

And now the wait and hassle to get it sorted. This was my first aliexpress order (that I recall) if you can believe that.

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

Re-ordered another as I await a response for the return/refund. Meantime, checking out the project + schematics, and looking at the (NES-ended) cables, there's a console-specific board at the 25din connector and controller port wires soldered there (some IC, a few resistors etc). So there's no simple DIY to convert these NES cables to Sega/Atari, bummer. 

As I wait for another try at the (2nd order) BlueRetro, I guess maybe trying out the Edladdin adapter might be the only potential way left to get bluetooth controllers, *if* it works w/my sample of 8bitdo Retro dongle. I'm dubious to shell out another $30 USD just on the chance it does or doesn't. 

 

Any other confirmed dongles/projects that allow BT/Wireless w/the 800XL (that doesn't use 8bitdo's dongle)? Yeesh. 

[chevymad]

Must have said it on the other thread. Unijoysticle works for me. https://www.tindie.com/stores/riq/

[WOPRpwJOSHUA]

9 minutes ago, chevymad said:

Must have said it on the other thread. Unijoysticle works for me. https://www.tindie.com/stores/riq/

That's right you did, sorry. Forgot to look it up, thanks. Any issues or anything?