ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 After the XE, XL, 400 and 1200 Decent keyboards, here's the 800 version, which completes the collection There's now a Decent keyboard for all released Atari 8-bit computers. Like all Decent keyboards, this can be built with any MX-compatible switches, and it is also backlit. All the details are on GitHub: https://github.com/bleroy/3d-junkyard/blob/main/Decent800/readme.md This is open source like all my designs, so you can build your own, but I also sell the keyboard fully assembled for $299 plus $15 shipping to the US. Drop me a PM if you're interested in buying one, specifying your switch preference (clicky, tactile, linear or a specific brand and model). The key caps were designed by @XL Freak. 16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted June 30 Author Share Posted June 30 Here's the family portrait, all the Decent keyboards: 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 I made a video showing the 400 and 800 keyboards: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 These look nice and I decided to give it a try, but I noticed a bit late that the shift and inverse (Atari) keys are swapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 A huge thank you to @ScreamingAtTheRadio and @XL Freak for these wonderful designs, and to both for the PCBs and keycap sets they've generously sent me over the past couple of years. Very much looking forward to featuring the 600/800XL and 1200XL keyboards in future videos, and probably others going forward. The fact Bertrand features his products in nicely put-together videos on his excellent channel is just the icing on the cake. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foft Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 You know I think a Falcon would look right at home in that family portrait 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 6 hours ago, Panther said: These look nice and I decided to give it a try, but I noticed a bit late that the shift and inverse (Atari) keys are swapped. The layouts are different because modern space bars are 6.25U or 7U whereas Atari space bars are 9U. That gives us space for two 1.25U keys around it. Depending on the model, we've been able to move keys there, which in turn leaves more space for wider delete keys, ISO return keys, etc. I understand it's not to everyone's liking, which is why you can always keep your vintage caps and build a vintage version of one of the keyboards. Or keep your Atari intact 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 Going by the PCB layout, I do see that it has the provision for including the break key in the original location, but the inverse key is swapped with the position of the right shift key. Unfortunately, moving this isn't simple due to the wider shift key and the required support. I'll try it though. My 800 hasn't been "intact" in decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 1 minute ago, Panther said: Going by the PCB layout, I do see that it has the provision for including the break key in the original location, but the inverse key is swapped with the position of the right shift key. Unfortunately, moving this isn't simple due to the wider shift key and the required support. I'll try it though. My 800 hasn't been "intact" in decades. Ah yes, that PCB is still a dual-footprint PCB, and some compromise had to be done. What I did on other, older designs is separate modern and vintage versions. I'll eventually give that treatment to the 800 PCB as well, probably with the next revision. If you don't mind waiting a bit... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 What would be the differences with the vintage version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 3 Author Share Posted July 3 42 minutes ago, Panther said: What would be the differences with the vintage version? You can look at the PCBs for the XL version for example to get a better idea, but essentially the purely modern versions only support MX switches and have the modernized layout. The purely vintage versions only support Kailh Choc switches (vintage caps attach to those via printed adapters) and have exactly the same layout as the original. An issue with the vintage versions is that stabilizers are way less stable, and the caps also feel less stable (which is why I no longer make those myself). The mixed modern/vintage PCBs, such as the current 800, support both the modernized layout with MX switches and the vintage layout with Choc switches. In the case of the 800, the swap of the shift and inverse keys was necessary, but wouldn't be in a pure vintage version. I hope this makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 I think I'll stick with the German keyswitches. My current Cherry keyswitches have a good feel to them, but I am using printed adapters with the original caps. It's not bad, but could be better. I'm sure your keyboard will have a better feel, but moving around in Ultima III will take some getting used to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 A few things I've noticed...one is that the stabilizer for the space bar mounts directly over the header for the connection cable. I will certainly cut the pins as flush as possible, but it doesn't seem ideal. Another is the backspace stablizer having the bar go directly the diode for that key, causing the bar to rub against it slightly. I probably should have found some shallower diodes. Finally, the control and tab switches seem to mount upside down, not clear on why. This moves the window for the LED into the wrong position, but I suspect it won't make much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 I'm still waiting for my preferred keyswiches to arrive, but I found I had these very nice unused HyperX linear keyswitches on hand and decided to install them in one of my boards. I didn't install the keycaps, but everything seems to be functioning very nicely with this. I look forward to building the one to install in my 800 which is the primary Atari computer I use and currently has the Multifarious keyboard in it with the stock keycaps on adapters. My primary system is disassembled right now and needs some work done, so I put together some NOS components I had sitting here. This is the first time these Atari 800 components have been powered on, besides the RAM card. It's all so shiny, too bad I don't have a chassis for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 12 hours ago, Panther said: A few things I've noticed...one is that the stabilizer for the space bar mounts directly over the header for the connection cable. I will certainly cut the pins as flush as possible, but it doesn't seem ideal. Another is the backspace stablizer having the bar go directly the diode for that key, causing the bar to rub against it slightly. I probably should have found some shallower diodes. Finally, the control and tab switches seem to mount upside down, not clear on why. This moves the window for the LED into the wrong position, but I suspect it won't make much of a difference. - stabilizer over headers: yes, the layout is extremely tight on those boards because of the mechanical constraints the 800 case imposes. In the next revision, I have an idea to deal with this: since the easy to source cables are two smaller cables rather than one wide cable, I can also split the connection on the Decent800 side and avoid that conflict. Your solution to cut flush is of course what I've had to do as well on mine. - If the diode brushes against the stabilizer bar, you can actually remove that diode and just short it instead. The diodes in those keyboards are nice to have, but not necessary (the original keyboards don't have any diodes). - Control and tab upside down: that was necessary to allow for both vintage and modern layouts on the same PCB. The next revision will have separate designs for modern and vintage and so won't have that issue. Good luck with the vintage build. Vintage builds are challenging, and the results are never quite as stable as modern ones. Let me know if you have any questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 It really would be nice to have separate versions. Don't the diodes just help with anti-ghosting? That's probably not a concern then with the backspace. Which cables did you find for this? I didn't see anything about the cable in the notes, other than having female Dupont connectors. The factory cable is 6" long, but a little longer wouldn't be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 16 Author Share Posted July 16 8 minutes ago, Panther said: It really would be nice to have separate versions. Don't the diodes just help with anti-ghosting? That's probably not a concern then with the backspace. Which cables did you find for this? I didn't see anything about the cable in the notes, other than having female Dupont connectors. The factory cable is 6" long, but a little longer wouldn't be bad. Yes, the diodes are for anti-ghosting, and it's not much of a concern for backspace. Cables: we need 22 pins so I buy 10 pin and 12 pin F/F Dupont connectors in 15 or 20cm such as those: 10Pcs 2.54MM Pitch Dupont Line Female / Male 2P 3P 4P 5P 6 7 8 10 12 Pin Dupont Cable Connector Jumper Cable Wire 10Cm/20Cm/30Cm - AliExpress 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Thank you. Somehow I just don't like making cables. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I finished assembling the keyboard for my 800 using Cherry MX brown keyswitches. This will be my first time trying out the new MX2A switches, but they just have a couple minor improvements. This keyboard feels very nice, with a solid feel. Now I need to finally get around to getting my 800 back together so I can install the keyboard, not to mention dust off my 3D printer for the supports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Great, now I'm thinking about how a nice little surface mount 6-pin Atmel ATtiny could be added to allow the use of a key combination to adjust the backlight instead of the potentiometer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 On 7/17/2024 at 10:31 PM, Panther said: Great, now I'm thinking about how a nice little surface mount 6-pin Atmel ATtiny could be added to allow the use of a key combination to adjust the backlight instead of the potentiometer. Sure, the backlighting circuit is cleanly separated so you should be able to easily PWM it. You'll want to remove and/or short the potentiometer. Then if you're using a 5V microcontroller, you should be able to tap into a subset of the matrix lines to catch the key combination you want. Just make sure to pick a key combination that doesn't do anything on the Atari side. Not sure what that could be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Ctrl-Shift-+/* don't map to anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, Panther said: Ctrl-Shift-+/* don't map to anything. True. CTRL SHIFT - and = also work. Neat. Nice thing is that you could even play with some effects, breathing and the such once you PWM the lights . Effects could be configured with that other pair of unassigned key combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Of course, now it's either adding some logic circuits, or an encoder, or a larger microcontroller. An ATsomewhattiny it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingAtTheRadio Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 4 minutes ago, Panther said: Of course, now it's either adding some logic circuits, or an encoder, or a larger microcontroller. An ATsomewhattiny it is! Well, there's room on the PCB... If your experiment works, I wouldn't be hostile to bumping up the BOM a few tens of cents and add one of the surface mounted versions. The main drawback for me would be that it would add a short programming step to assembling the keyboards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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