Best GPU for SFF? Batocera run ahead?

[guitarmas]

Hey peeps,

 

I've got a small form factor PC. I'd like to put a discrete GPU on it. I've seen a few on Ebay that will fit. My problem is. How do I keep it cool? The fan and heat sink are right up against the PSU case. I attached a picture of it.

Any ideas?

 

 

I'm also working on a 2TB drive with Batocera on it. I have just recently heard about run ahead.

 

How well does it work? Apparently it works on a game by game basis. Does performance take a hit while this is in operation? It sounds like an excellent idea to implement. 

 

Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Thanks!

Edited July 5 by guitarmas
Reformed title and content. Spelling erros

[guitarmas]

I didn't realize that you can put a standard GPU in a PCI-e 1x slot.

 

Nevermind. Lol

 

 

[+bent_pin]

27 minutes ago, guitarmas said:

I didn't realize that you can put a standard GPU in a PCI-e 1x slot.

You can, and you can also use a Ferrari as a golf cart. You will cripple the performance if you don't give it as many lanes as it can use.

[guitarmas]

I understand. Unfortunately I don't really have any other options that I can see.

[+bent_pin]

34 minutes ago, guitarmas said:

I understand. Unfortunately I don't really have any other options that I can see.

What's the processor, chipset, and ram specs on the PC? You probably won't gain a lot if you use too new of a GPU.

[RevEng]

And are you trying to play? I'm running emulation up to Switch on a mini with integrated Intel HD 630 graphics. Most emulation is very much cpu bound, and less often GPU bound.

[guitarmas]

10 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

What's the processor, chipset, and ram specs on the PC? You probably won't gain a lot if you use too new of a GPU.

It has a:

-I5-6500 CPU

-32GB PC4 3200 RAM

-500GB NVME Drive

[guitarmas]

15 minutes ago, RevEng said:

And are you trying to play? I'm running emulation up to Switch on a mini with integrated Intel HD 630 graphics. Most emulation is very much cpu bound, and less often GPU bound.

Mostly emulation. 

[+bent_pin]

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB Graphics Card | eBay

 

What do you think @RevEng?

[RevEng]

2 hours ago, bent_pin said:

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB Graphics Card | eBay

 

What do you think @RevEng?

Unfortunately it won't give him anything. He has Intel HD 530 graphics with that cpu, and believe it or not, it's actually slightly better than a 730. (scroll down to the game benchmark section)

 

I think it's a bit hard to say which card is best value, since we don't have the full use case fleshed yet. The entry point that makes some sense is a low profile GT 1030 (which will double the integrated graphics performance). There isn't a lot of middle ground. Used low-profile GTX 1650 cards are expensive enough that you might as well just get a new RX 6400, or spend even more to max out at an RTX 3050. I don't personally think it's a good idea to sink a lot of money into low-profile cards on an older platform, though, but it depends on what he wants to do.

 

2 hours ago, guitarmas said:

Mostly emulation. 

But some modern gaming? Then yeah, you probably need the external gpu.

But for just emulation of platforms that your CPU could manage, your integrated graphics is probably going to be enough, and the external gpu won't net you anything - unless you need to output games at a higher resolution than 720p. Scaling much beyond that with integrated graphics affects performance.

 

There are some things you can do to max out performance of your setup (using  2 sticks of ram in dual-channel is critical for integrated graphics performance), but my setup is different on the software side. I'm running Windows with RetroBat instead of Batocera. It involves a bit more setup at first, but RetroBat allows you to selectively use Vulkan graphics, which some emulators prefer. You can also goose your cpu performance quite a bit if needed by running throttlestop and setting the regular cpu frequency to your all-core boost frequency.

[RevEng]

3 hours ago, guitarmas said:

I didn't realize that you can put a standard GPU in a PCI-e 1x slot.

If you do this, you'll get in-game stutters for games that actually use the gpu.

 

Given the same dilemma, I'd either open up a section of that power supply wall with tin snips to give the gpu air, or I'd get a pcie extension cable and somehow try to secure the card right next to the pcie x1 slot. This sort of guerrilla modification is typical when you're trying to extend pre-built PCs.

[guitarmas]

Thanks for all your replies!

 

It probably doesn't help. The PSU only runs at 185 watts. Lol

 

Edited July 9 by guitarmas
Punctuation

[RevEng]

It's a bit tight, but the cards we've mentioned don't use supplemental power plugs, so they top out at 75W. Your particular CPU tops out at 65W. Each spinning hard drive, if any, take up about 30W at spin-up, and settle down to 8W or less after that. SSDs max out about 8W.

 

If we assume one of each drive type (no idea what your drives are) that puts you at 96%, which is badly close to the max for sustained usage, but the truth is your cpu, gpu, and drives won't run at their sustained max for long periods, so you should be good. Avoid using spinning hard drives, and you'll be well within your power budget, even if everything maxes out.

[guitarmas]

4 minutes ago, RevEng said:

It's a bit tight, but the cards we've mentioned don't use supplemental power plugs, so they top out at 75W. Your particular CPU tops out at 65W. Each spinning hard drive, if any, take up about 30W at spin-up, and settle down to 8W or less after that. SSDs max out about 8W.

 

If we assume one of each drive type (no idea what your drives are) that puts you at 96%, which is badly close to the max for sustained usage, but the truth is your cpu, gpu, and drives won't run at their sustained max for long periods.

 

Cool. Thanks!

 

So for me I'm looking at around 103W maxed out.

 

[guitarmas]

Oops! I forgot to add the external USB 1TB HDD to the specs.

 

-I5-6500 CPU

-32GB PC4 3200 RAM

-500GB NVME Drive

-1TB external USB HDD

Edited July 9 by guitarmas
Added specs.

[RevEng]

USB 3.0, which is the max you'll have on this platform, is only rated for outputting 4.5W. So that would be the max your external drive should use.

[guitarmas]

Thanks!

 

I came across this Dell 300W PSU.

Do you think it will be worth it?

It says it's compatible with my particular system. 

A Dell Optiplex 3050.

[RevEng]

You can get by with the existing psu, but if you're looking for the headroom, then sure. Usually the order is figure out the components first, and then sort out the power requirement, so it depends on if you're still doing the gpu or not. A gpu like the 30W GT 1030 or the 53W RX 6400 wouldn't warrant the power upgrade, but a 70W 3050 might.

 

I do want to caution that while pre-builts like this can be a good source of cheap compute, expanding them can also quickly turn into a money pit.  Low profile cards are poor performers in terms of  $ per frame. If you have a component issue, or decide the system doesn't quite meet your needs, you're faced with the decision to spend more to add to an old platform or to scrap it. A diy pc gives you more flexibility in terms of component re-use, and will save money in the long run, albeit at a higher initial buy-in.

 

This is kind of why I've been trying to hammer the requirements down a bit. If you wind up deciding (for example) that you really need ps3 emulation in your life, or AAA gaming at 1440p or 4k is what you want to do, your system isn't going to cut it with any upgrades you can do. If you're just looking for some e-sports, indie gaming, and older AAA, in addition to the emulation, than a low-spec gpu might be appropriate. For just emulation, you already have the makings of a decently capable machine, so you might want to figure out what you want to do, and determine that the machine can't already do it, before sinking money into it.

[guitarmas]

20 minutes ago, RevEng said:

You can get by with the existing psu, but if you're looking for the headroom, then sure. Usually the order is figure out the components first, and then sort out the power requirement, so it depends on if you're still doing the gpu or not. A gpu like the 30W GT 1030 or the 53W RX 6400 wouldn't warrant the power upgrade, but a 70W 3050 might.

 

I do want to caution that while pre-builts like this can be a good source of cheap compute, expanding them can also quickly turn into a money pit.  Low profile cards are poor performers in terms of  $ per frame. If you have a component issue, or decide the system doesn't quite meet your needs, you're faced with the decision to spend more to add to an old platform or to scrap it. A diy pc gives you more flexibility in terms of component re-use, and will save money in the long run, albeit at a higher initial buy-in.

 

This is kind of why I've been trying to hammer the requirements down a bit. If you wind up deciding (for example) that you really need ps3 emulation in your life, or AAA gaming at 1440p or 4k is what you want to do, your system isn't going to cut it with any upgrades you can do. If you're just looking for some e-sports, indie gaming, and older AAA, in addition to the emulation, than a low-spec gpu might be appropriate. For just emulation, you already have the makings of a decently capable machine, so you might want to figure out what you want to do, that the machine can't already do, before sinking money into it.

Thank you for the advice. It was well said!

 

I might go with a lower end GPU. I'm guessing a newer end one would start the jump into the deep rabbit hole. On one hand I think it would be just kinda neat to have a project like this have aside as a small project. But on the other hand it could be a nonsensical money pit.

 

The setup is going to be a boot to USB with Batocera on it. 

[MCHufnagel]

It's too bad you don't have a HP SFF. Those have a PCI-E x16 slot far enough away from the PSU that allows the use of a dual slot LP GPU.

[auzdriver]

How did you go? I looked into this ages ago and the power supply was an issue and upgrading cost a packet. From memory only GPU that fit was a low form factor 760 and 1060ti which weren't overly cheap either.

I gave up and was looking at amd 5600 but ended up going with mini PC amd 7840hs which has a decent GPU capable of entry level PS3.