Kickstarter Book - Dare to Dream: Commodore and Amiga Today?

[youxia]

This thread is really taking a sharp turn towards the bizarre zone

 

 

 

[Brek Martin]

2 minutes ago, youxia said:

This thread is really taking a sharp turn towards the bizarre zone

 

 

 

What? A disagreement in the Amiga community? you must be new then 

 

[Landstalker]

21 minutes ago, youxia said:

This thread is really taking a sharp turn towards the bizarre zone

 

 

 

Not at all. It's simply saying look at these books of David's with a pragmatic eye.
Somebody yesterday threw three grand at his Kickstarter so it's now a given that he will hit the goal.

Only those who read the finished product will be qualified to say whether they feel it was worth the effort.
Does it add anything truly worthy and/or reputable to the Amiga legacy?

Then we sit back and see if volume six appears.
 

[youxia]

No, not really new. I just can't help but feel that increasingly large percentage of forum posts are AI driven, thanks to their supremely weird logic and syntax

 

There's a limit to what you can explain by "maybe English is not their first language".

[Brek Martin]

I guess most ppl here actually have Amigas or WinUAE ,so...

futprod.doc

[Brek Martin]

5 minutes ago, youxia said:

There's a limit to what you can explain by "maybe English is not their first language".

I've been told that about myself, especially in technology groups when it gets down to hardware or programming.

Not usually so much with day to day speech.

 

[Marcio D.]

13 hours ago, Lostdragon said:

David was MARKETING.. 

 

David had no role, as in effect there was no product to market, so why would he be the person best suited to detail lost hardware? 🤔

 

 

Pleasance is not the best person to detail lost hardware.  That's why he brought Dave Haynie aboard to co-write the book.

 

Pleasance's job titles during the last few years at Commodore were General Manager, Vice President, and Managing Director.  Plus, he was involved in an effort to buy out Commodore during its bankruptcy.  Is it not reasonable to assume that he was privy to information on things like AAA and Hombre at the time?  By information, I mean executive reports, not technical volumes meant for engineering eyes.

 

If what you crave are books written exclusively by Commodore engineers about unreleased Amiga hardware, you're living in the wrong universe.  Have you not noticed that those engineers are not keen on writing books on their own?  Say what you will about Pleasance, but at least he makes books happen.

 

Back/buy the book, skip the parts written by Pleasance if you don't like him, and just read what Haynie has to say.

 

[Marcio D.]

12 hours ago, Landstalker said:

You must step back from your passion for the Amiga and see this in other terms.
This is a sales pitch.
It's irrelevant what is being sold, the undeniable fact is that it's a sales pitch.
While there is nothing wrong with selling per see you need to ask "why" this particular item is being sold.
Almost certainly because the AGA pitch failed.
Then you need to think long and hard about the whole AGA pitch.
David was attempting to sell something completely unnecessary. Something nobody wanted other than him and something nobody needed other than him.
 

 

Of course this is a sales pitch... a pitch to sell the book.  How are potential readers going to learn about the book unless Pleasance promotes it?

 

You do know that Pleasance wrote a few books before crowdfunding the failed Amiga Global Alliance (AGA), right?  So your insinuation that this Dare to Dream book is a new fallback project after AGA's failure makes no sense.  If AGA had succeeded, you really think he wouldn't have gone on to write more books?  Really?!

 

[RobertB]

Goaaallll!  Over 100% funded!

 

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

[Marcio D.]

12 hours ago, Landstalker said:

David was attempting to sell something completely unnecessary. Something nobody wanted other than him and something nobody needed other than him.
Every aspect of the Amiga Global Alliance exists already; the forums, the lines of communication the assistance offered to members of the global Amiga community.
There you have it in a nutshell. The Amiga community has existed across the face of the globe for decades without any input from David whatsoever.
He had moved away from his sales position within Commodore onto other ventures and the Amiga scene flourished without his involvement.
But suddenly he appears wanting to get his foot in the door.
There is nothing wrong as I said in wanting a slice of the nostalgia pie; hundreds have done it to varying degrees of success.
But to attempt to become the "boss" of the Amiga community, which is what he wanted. There is no other way of looking at his proposal. He wanted to set up something that incorporated everything existing to date, behind a paywall with himself at the top of the table.
And he expected to take a cut of that, every month, ad infinitum.
Why?
For what?
My question to you and I have posed the same to him on his Facebook account and my podcast is "What was he bringing to the table?"
What, as boss of the AGA did David John Pleasance contribute other than the idea?
An idea that already existed, I must stress. The AGA has existed in essence for over two decades without the "paid Alliance fees".
Did this not smell wrong to you?
 

 

Amiga Global Alliance (AGA) was going to offer funding for worthwhile projects that were being overlooked by traditional investors and the crowdfunding landscape.  What entity now exists to fulfill that function?

 

AGA was going to spearhead an effort for Hollywood to make a Commodore movie.  What group now exists to make that effort?

 

Your belief that AGA was only going to be an online directory of web links is just pure laziness on your part.

 

I'm not saying AGA would've done a good job at anything.  What I am saying is that you and others are focusing only on the web links directory aspect in order to bolster your claims that Pleasance is an evil man.

 

[Marcio D.]

13 hours ago, Landstalker said:

As I said earlier, he's not the first to benefit from nostalgia.
Now you're probably thinking "We're not talking about the AGA here, we're talking about Dare to Dream, his latest potential publication."
You need to see subsequent books in the light of the failed AGA.
It's only a guess, but probably a good one, if I say that had AGA, succeeded, we almost certainly would not be seeing future books from David.
He would have his monthly nest-egg from the community and he could sit back and not wrack his brains for some way to create another Amiga-related revenue stream. Because that is all they are.
The books are not well-written and paint a very one-sided and dubious picture of events with David always the hero of any situation.
Let's be brutally honest.
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs had careers infinitely more fascinating and they've written their autobiographies. One volume each.
Do you truly believe the life of a salesman warrants five volumes?
Do you truly believe that if not planned correctly the tales across this series of titles could not have been encapsulated in one "earth-shattering and revelatory" volume?
Do you not suspect there is a financial reason they are NOT in one volume?
If this book succeeds do you think there's a possibility that there might be a sixth?
Can you not see these ventures as something other than someone wanting to contribute to the community or make a few bucks?
Do you not see then is being just a little "grasping" and tinged with an element of greed from someone who was JUST A SALESMAN?
He never created any hardware.
He never wrote any software.
He has stated outright that he is not technically minded.
I do have an axe to grind with David. I find him avaricious and duplicitous.
I understand your belief in the project, the topic and to an extent in David.
But you need to put that aside and see the Kickstarter from a different angle.
One final question.
Could he not have written the book and self-published it via "print on demand" on Amazon?
 

 

 

Wow, such vitriol!

 

I'll suggest to you the same thing I suggested to Brek Martin.  Leave the cozy comfort of your gloomy abode, attend an event, and chat with Pleasance in person.  Don't pester him with questions on Facebook and expect an answer.  He understandably won't prioritize your questions and comments over all the others that he receives.

 

I suspect that you're a paper tiger, and that if you met him in person, you'd comport yourself to more subdued behaviour.  Sitting down and chatting with him would yield far more answers to your questions than writing tirades like you've done in this forum.

 

You're allowing your dislike of a person fester needlessly, when you don't even know them!

 

[Marcio D.]

12 hours ago, Brek Martin said:

Truth be told, I know more useful information regarding Commodore and Amiga than Dave P could possibly share.

 

 

 

And yet, you waste your time boasting on forums?

 

If you think that most of what Pleasance writes is B.S., you could write your own book detailing all his inaccuracies and omissions point for point.  Or if a book is too daunting, put together a well-organized website to disseminate your amazing knowledge.  Heck, even a newsletter in PDF format would do.

 

Until you come out with your own book / website / newsletter, your boasts are just a bunch of hollow nothings.

 

[Brek Martin]

14 hours ago, Landstalker said:

stuff

 

Thanks for the info!

 

A lot of your post I glazed over, rather confused as to why AGA would be David P's idea

An obvious take on the chipset acronym that I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it.

I haven't thought about Amigas much in a couple of years, as happens when you're focussed on another platform.

I still join the FB group every six months to catch up on new projects though, so should have heard of it.

 

Knowledge of AGA obviously wasn't required for me to be weary of his books after the first one,

which did appear to be written from a marketing perspective.

Aside from boasting of my extensive knowledge and projects, I can also claim to be a seer now too!

Some EAB posts I searched last night imply that the fallout from it was likened to the new Phase 5 Digital, but I doubt that.

 

After watching several YouTube videos about it I can't work it out. I'm afraid I share your opinion,

although he now more occurs to me as more clueless than anything else. As if he just discovered the internet yesterday.

 

 

 

 

 

[Landstalker]

9 hours ago, Marcio D. said:

 

 

Wow, such vitriol!

 

I'll suggest to you the same thing I suggested to Brek Martin.  Leave the cozy comfort of your gloomy abode, attend an event, and chat with Pleasance in person.  Don't pester him with questions on Facebook and expect an answer.  He understandably won't prioritize your questions and comments over all the others that he receives.

 

I suspect that you're a paper tiger, and that if you met him in person, you'd comport yourself to more subdued behaviour.  Sitting down and chatting with him would yield far more answers to your questions than writing tirades like you've done in this forum.

 

You're allowing your dislike of a person fester needlessly, when you don't even know them!

 

I have met and spoken with David many times.

I have done several Q&A sessions at events where we were both guests.
He is a rather sad and deluded man who believes in his own hype.
His books are a cash grab at best and not a fitting legacy to the Amiga.

 

Edited July 31 by Landstalker

[Marcio D.]

6 minutes ago, Landstalker said:

I have met and spoken with David many times.

I have done several Q&A sessions at events where we were both guests.
He is a rather sad and deluded man who believes in his own hype.
His books are a cash grab at best and not a fitting legacy to the Amiga.

 

 

You've spoken with David Pleasance many times?

 

Do you continually chat with him at these events because you love being in the presence of someone so deluded, greedy, and unworthy?  Why would you speak to him "many times" if you weren't somehow charmed and entertained by him during each interaction?

 

I don't understand why you envious types are so opposed to an elderly man trying to earn a bit of extra money.  Do you really think he's selling millions of copies of each book?  Or is he selling more like a few thousand copies at best?  C'mon now... how much money is there in selling the low volume of books that he does?

 

Let's see... Pleasance worked 12 years at Commodore and received several promotions along the way, making it as far as becoming VP of a division.  So he actually accomplished something in the world of 1980's and 1990's computing.  That's far more than a certain bloke in this forum who pats himself on the back for have some deep mysterious Amiga knowledge, but has actually achieved nothing in comparison.

 

What additional hype beyond his career do you think Pleasance is drumming up?  Has he ever said to you and others, "I am the Amiga god... thou shalt bow before me"?

 

If anyone's delusional, could it actually be YOU ?

 

[Brek Martin]

1 hour ago, Landstalker said:

I have met and spoken with David many times.

I have done several Q&A sessions at events where we were both guests.
He is a rather sad and deluded man who believes in his own hype.
His books are a cash grab at best and not a fitting legacy to the Amiga.

 

Perhaps you should be asking the self-appointed authority if our exile from the Amiga community involves Amiga sections of Atari forums

Maybe I should also be asking the same self-appointed authority to pay for my airfare, and take care of my responsibilities at home,

so I can attend an Amiga event as he suggests, because his narcissism can't see past himself to consider that not everybody lives in the same country,

but yet is still wise enough to read our thoughts, and also know what we have or have not contributed to the community.

 

 

 

 

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

 

 

[Marcio D.]

14 minutes ago, Brek Martin said:

Perhaps you should be asking the self-appointed authority if our exile from the Amiga community involves Amiga sections of Atari forums

Maybe I should also be asking the same self-appointed authority to pay for my airfare, and take care of my responsibilities at home,

so I can attend an Amiga event as he suggests, because his narcissism can't see past himself to consider that not everybody lives in the same country,

but yet is still wise enough to read our thoughts, and also know what we have or have not contributed to the community.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm no self-appointed authority.  I'm just a dude holding up a mirror so that you guys can see the ugliness in yourselves.  The anger and envy you feel towards a 75-year old man trying to earn a bit of extra dough and keep active in this world is downright horrible.

 

Pleasance does travel, y'know.  For example, he made an appearance at a Commodore show in Toronto in 2022.  Would not be surprised if he's already visited your country for an event, but you wouldn't know if he did because the gloominess of your abode is too cozy to leave.

 

I'll not pay for your travel or any of your home expenses.  Won't even drop money into your cup if you panhandle.  Instead, I'll suggest that you work harder, do something more to earn extra dough instead of envying a 75-year old author.  Rather than patting your own self on the back, do something for your community so that others pat you on the back.

 

[Landstalker]

2 hours ago, Marcio D. said:

 

You've spoken with David Pleasance many times?

 

Do you continually chat with him at these events because you love being in the presence of someone so deluded, greedy, and unworthy?  Why would you speak to him "many times" if you weren't somehow charmed and entertained by him during each interaction?

 

I don't understand why you envious types are so opposed to an elderly man trying to earn a bit of extra money.  Do you really think he's selling millions of copies of each book?  Or is he selling more like a few thousand copies at best?  C'mon now... how much money is there in selling the low volume of books that he does?

 

Let's see... Pleasance worked 12 years at Commodore and received several promotions along the way, making it as far as becoming VP of a division.  So he actually accomplished something in the world of 1980's and 1990's computing.  That's far more than a certain bloke in this forum who pats himself on the back for have some deep mysterious Amiga knowledge, but has actually achieved nothing in comparison.

 

What additional hype beyond his career do you think Pleasance is drumming up?  Has he ever said to you and others, "I am the Amiga god... thou shalt bow before me"?

 

If anyone's delusional, could it actually be YOU ?

 

Do you only speak to people who "charm" and "entertain" you or do you perhaps make conversation for other reasons?
Nobody suggested he had said anything like "I am the Amiga god... thou shalt bow before me", but David put himself at the head of the AGA and would no doubt be seen as the main man in the organisation had it been successful.

He would have been making rules that he expected his "members/followers" to adhere to.
Not a God per se but certainly the "Boss" of the suggested group. One with a semblance of power over his subscribers.
I doubt power was his primary goal and can only posit that a regular revenue stream from such a position was the idea.
For what?
We'll never know. It's a spent arrow.

David worked for Commodore for 12.5 years and was very successful.
Since then, not so much.
I have worked in the video games industry for more than 40 years to varying degrees of success, depending on one's definition and am still doing so, hence being at the same events as David.
No one is delusional and nobody has suggested that you are.
Some accept him at face value and others do not. They view him very differently and there is nothing wrong with doing so.
You can't please all the people all of the time.
If you hold him in high regard that is your prerogative.
I and many others are also justified in having our own opinions.
We are also justified in voicing these opinions. 

Edited July 31 by Landstalker

[Lostdragon]

13 hours ago, Marcio D. said:

 

Pleasance is not the best person to detail lost hardware.  That's why he brought Dave Haynie aboard to co-write the book.

 

Pleasance's job titles during the last few years at Commodore were General Manager, Vice President, and Managing Director.  Plus, he was involved in an effort to buy out Commodore during its bankruptcy.  Is it not reasonable to assume that he was privy to information on things like AAA and Hombre at the time?  By information, I mean executive reports, not technical volumes meant for engineering eyes.

 

If what you crave are books written exclusively by Commodore engineers about unreleased Amiga hardware, you're living in the wrong universe.  Have you not noticed that those engineers are not keen on writing books on their own?  Say what you will about Pleasance, but at least he makes books happen.

 

Back/buy the book, skip the parts written by Pleasance if you don't like him, and just read what Haynie has to say.

 

Basically, it would depend just how far along the Hombre chipsets were, if it was still heavily a R+D project, then no I wouldn't make an assumption David was privy to very much. 

 

Why would he of been? 

 

Hardware goes through multiple revisions before it's ready to be presented to the board as it were. 

 

If I end up skipping large sections of any book or indeed magazine purchase, it's hardly representing VFM and can be classed as an essential buy. 

[Marcio D.]

24 minutes ago, Landstalker said:

Do you only speak to people who "charm" and "entertain" you or do you perhaps make conversation for other reasons?
Nobody suggested he had said anything like "I am the Amiga god... thou shalt bow before me", but David put himself at the head of the AGA and would no doubt be seen as the main man in the organisation had it been successful.

He would have been making rules that he expected his "members/followers" to adhere to.
Not a God per se but certainly the "Boss" of the suggested group. One with a semblance of power over his subscribers.
I doubt power was his primary goal and can only posit that a regular revenue stream from such a position was the idea.
For what?
We'll never know. It's a spent arrow.

David worked for Commodore for 12.5 years and was very successful.
Since then, not so much.
I have worked in the video games industry for more than 40 years to varying degrees of success, depending on one's definition and am still doing so, hence being at the same events as David.
No one is delusional and nobody has suggested that you are.
Some accept him at face value and others do not. They view him very differently and there is nothing wrong with doing so.
You can't please all the people all of the time.
If you hold him in high regard that is your prerogative.
I and many others are also justified in having our own opinions.
We are also justified in voicing these opinions. 

 

Yes, I do speak to folks for reasons other than charm and entertainment.  But I don't seek out and chat with folks who have undesirable qualities.  I find it odd that you've identified Pleasance as someone who's greedy, sad, delusional, etc., and yet you choose to repeatedly socialize with him when there are hundreds of more pleasant souls at the event to interact with.  Could it be that you actually like the fellow more than you care to admit?

 

Of course Pleasance put himself as the boss of AGA.  That project was his baby!  Plus, he had the leadership experience and Commodore fame to serve as the project's figurehead.  What should he have done, chosen an unknown and unproven bloke like you to be the leader?

 

 

RE:  "No one is delusional and nobody has suggested that you are."

 

But just a few messages back, you wrote this of Pleasance:  "He is a rather sad and deluded man who believes in his own hype."

 

C'mon man... get your own story straight!

 

 

There is definitely something wrong with judging someone so harshly without really knowing them, so don't kid yourself.  If you found out that Pleasance was trying to earn extra money to buy life-preserving medications for himself or a family member, would that cause your jealousy and anger to dissipate?  Or did you already arrive at the conclusion long ago that he's using the extra money to lead a hedonistic lifestyle?

 

Hint:  You too can be dating supermodels if you'd earn extra money by writing books.  😉

 

[Marcio D.]

46 minutes ago, Lostdragon said:

Basically, it would depend just how far along the Hombre chipsets were, if it was still heavily a R+D project, then no I wouldn't make an assumption David wy as privy to very much. 

 

Why would he of been? 

 

Hardware goes through multiple revisions before it's ready to be presented to the board as it were. 

 

If I end up skipping large sections of any book or indeed magazine purchase, it's hardly representing VFM and can be classed as an essential buy. 

 

Pleasance and Proudfoot managed to raise $50M from investors to buy out the Commodore assets.

 

I find it hard to believe they did that by telling investors that OCS/ECS/AGA technology was good enough to bank on for the next 10 years.  I picture P & P knowing enough about AAA and Hombre to have dazzled the investors.  Of course, it's possible that P & P only presented OCS/ECS/AGA to the investors, and the investors were dumb enough to part with $50M on that basis.

 

But I'd rather stop speculating on how much or how little P & P knew about upcoming Amiga tech back in 1994, and that's why I've backed the book.  I want to read what really went down.

 

 

Back the e-book version to lessen the hit on the wallet, and have fun!

 

[Landstalker]

36 minutes ago, Marcio D. said:

you choose to repeatedly socialize with him

I didn't say I "repeatedly socialise with him".
I said I have spoken to him many times.
Past tense.

[Landstalker]

37 minutes ago, Marcio D. said:

C'mon man... get your own story straight!

I stand corrected.
I meant to say that no one who feels he is playing a financial game with other people's passions re the Amiga is delusional.
 

 

[Landstalker]

The fact remains that David is a divisive personality within the community. A community he has little to do with except to monetise.
Your encounters with him show him in a positive light.
Myself and others see things differently.
That does not mean that either side is wrong, we just hold different opinions.