If I get an MSX, which one do I want?

[KG7PFS]

I have a Tandy Color Computer 3. It not only has Basic in ROM, but also runs OS-9, a unix! (Think of it as MP/M with color graphics and sound, only better.) It supports up to four users at once! Who has a more practical excuse to collect up to four computers than a CoCo 3 user?

 

The first two "terminals" were an easy choice - a Commodore 128 and an Atari 130XE. The the third terminal has been a little hard to decide on. Now it's getting harder. Not because I've used up all the American brands of "tv, tape disk and cartridge computers" but now because there are so many brands: Sony, Sanyo, Toshiba, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Yamaha, Canon, Philips, Pioneer, Spectravideo, Fujitsu, Goldstar, Hitachi, JVC, etc.

 

I want 110v 60hz power, US plug, Basic, DOS and applications in English, and good quality.

 

Is there anything I need to watch out for? Cheap hardware? Incompatible video? Overheating power supplies? Everything in Japanese?

 

Or, since the're all pretty much the same, should I just find one with 64k that looks really cool?

[carlsson]

Are you looking to play games, and which ones? The MSX1 generation has the most number of models from all the brands you mention. Those came with 8-64K RAM, tape and occasional 3.5" floppy drive. Graphically and soundwise it is on the same hardware level as ColecoVision + AY. Many of those have its own "hook" feature though, like the Yamaha CX-5M which has a synthesizer similar to DX-7 built in beyond the standard audio. Pioneer has built-in support for attaching a Laserdisc player. Sony had a built-in diary (!) if I recall correctly. Other brands simply produced a reliable computer according to the standard, without any extra features.

 

The MSX2 generation was adopted by fewer manufacturers, come with 64-128K RAM + separate VRAM. Quite a few of those have built-in 3.5" floppy drive, and are backwards compatible. If you ever come across a game or other software written for MSX2, you need that class of machine, just like you would need a CoCo 3 in order to run software made for that machine. The MSX2 tends to be quite a lot more expensive than MSX1, due to high demand and low supply. The MSX2 exist in both NTSC (Japan) and PAL (Europe) models, the later in particular due to Philips support.

 

The MSX2+ is yet another step up on the scale, and even fewer manufacturers. Now it is Japan exclusive, and the amount of software requiring the plus model is even less. Finally you had the Turbo-R which only was manufactured by Panasonic in two models and is a collector's item more than a general use home computer.

 

Some of the MSX computers have built-in power supplies, some have external. The secondary power requirements and in particular shape of connectors and pinouts tends to differ, so make sure that whichever model you get, is complete and working. Spare power supplies with odd voltages will be a nightmare to find afterwards.

 

There are threads on MSX.org about the best MSX models.

https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/hardware/what-best-computer-msx-msx2-msx2-and-msx-turbo-r

[KG7PFS]

Thanks for the link! I hadn't explored msx.org that much yet and I didn't know they had a forum.

 

Japan uses NTSC? That helps a lot! What about power? I can't tell much from ebay listings, but some MSX's on ebay appear to have US style plugs.

 

I'm not that into games. What home, "office", and science/educational software is available for MSX in English?

[carlsson]

Yes, Japan has NTSC-J and nominally 100V, while you have 110-115V. Some people invest in a step-down converter to get 100V, others presume the voltage difference is small enough that the power supply will handle it.

 

Regarding the MSX library, I recommend https://www.generation-msx.nl/ though it seems they mostly have a search function. You can try links like https://www.generation-msx.nl/software/result?&ge[]=Wordprocessor though to get word processors.

 

When you mention OS-9, do you connect to it using a null modem terminal or something similar? In that case, good terminal programs may be on your list:
https://www.generation-msx.nl/software/result?&ge[]=Communication

[Hwlngmad]

On 7/13/2024 at 8:55 PM, KG7PFS said:

I have a Tandy Color Computer 3. It not only has Basic in ROM, but also runs OS-9, a unix! (Think of it as MP/M with color graphics and sound, only better.) It supports up to four users at once! Who has a more practical excuse to collect up to four computers than a CoCo 3 user?

 

The first two "terminals" were an easy choice - a Commodore 128 and an Atari 130XE. The the third terminal has been a little hard to decide on. Now it's getting harder. Not because I've used up all the American brands of "tv, tape disk and cartridge computers" but now because there are so many brands: Sony, Sanyo, Toshiba, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, Yamaha, Canon, Philips, Pioneer, Spectravideo, Fujitsu, Goldstar, Hitachi, JVC, etc.

 

I want 110v 60hz power, US plug, Basic, DOS and applications in English, and good quality.

 

Is there anything I need to watch out for? Cheap hardware? Incompatible video? Overheating power supplies? Everything in Japanese?

 

Or, since the're all pretty much the same, should I just find one with 64k that looks really cool?

I would recommend trying to shoot for an MSX2 as that seems to be the sweet spot of the MSX line of computers.

[Tempest]

14 minutes ago, Hwlngmad said:

I would recommend trying to shoot for an MSX2 as that seems to be the sweet spot of the MSX line of computers.

I agree.  An MSX is basically a fancy Colecovision, but the MSX2 will let you run all the nice games you're going to want to play.  The extra cost of the MSX2+ probably isn't worth it unless you can find one cheap.  Usually the upgrades to games are minor and I'm not sure if there were any 2+ exclusive games.

 

Make sure the system has at least 128K memory.  Some systems only have 64K, even my MSX2+ only came with 64K.  I had to get it upgraded (512K).

[carlsson]

8 hours ago, Tempest said:

I'm not sure if there were any 2+ exclusive games

Generation MSX has 171 entries that support MSX2+, of which 82 are games. If I count correctly, 29 of those require MSX2+ or Turbo-R. So yes, less than 30 games for which you need the MSX2+, compared to more than 1500 games for the MSX2 of which the majority won't run on MSX1 anyway.

[KG7PFS]

i'm not that interested in games. What about applications? Do all MSX2's support 80 collum? Is it true that CP/M software works with MSX DOS?

[carlsson]

Yes, I believe the TMS-9939 in MSX2 has resolution enough so all models should support native 80 columns. Not sure if MSX-DOS is compatible with CP/M, or how much support there is to get CP/M onto those.

[CatPix]

I'm not sure MSX-DOS is compatible with CP/M, but like many Z80 based machines, the MSX had it's own version of CP/M (some with CP/M built in as with the Soviet education Yamaha 805 one).

Here's a forum page with more details :

https://www.msx.org/forum/msx-talk/general-discussion/cpm-on-msx

 

For MSX, while there are "better" and "worse" ones, MSX branding including a minimal amount of features. MSX wasn't a manufacturer but a standard, and this standard mostly defined minimum requirements, but no "Maximum" ones, so several manufacturers added their own flair to their machines (such as the specific Yamaha expansion port that only accepted their format of expansion modules).

 

MSX 1 :

8Ko of RAM Minimum but almost no models ever used that few. Machines from Japan tended to have 32Ko (larger use of carts and floppies) and Europe tended to have 64 Ko (larger use of tapes)

128Ko is possible. If you chose a MSX1, having 64 Ko will allow you greater flexibility to load games and software.

Video chip : Texas Instruments TMS9918 for every MSX1 with 16 Ko of RAM. Some odd machines, especially late one, may have extra features but aren't part of MSX standard.

Sound chip : General Instrument AY-3-8910. Again, some machines may have extra chips for specific uses, especially MIDI music, but you should ignore those unless you specifically want a music machine such as the US-sold Yamaha CX-5.

At least one cart port and one joystick port. Given the vast number of expansions that use the cart port, I highly recommand to get a 2 cart slots-model.

 

MSX 2 :

64Ko of RAM is now the minimum, 128Ko is standard and machines with up to 512Ko or RAM were built.

Video chip : Yamaha V9938 AKA MSX-Video. 64 and 128Ko RAM versions exists, I recommand you to pick a model with 128ko directly.

Sound chip : Yamaha YM2149 (licenced clone of AY-3-8910). Optionnal but common is the Yamaha Y8950 (OPL1) which can be either built into the computer or added as a cartridge add-on.

MSX2 can still come with only 1 cart slot, but normally with 2 joystick ports, and one parallel port. Not standard but common for many models are a 3"1/2 floppy drive.

 

MSX2 models can sometime be upgraded to MSX2+.

 

MSX2 models tend to have internal power supplies, but many are switching power supplies that will work on US voltage.

(switching power supply on a Yamaha MSX2)

 

Many MSX2 also feature a RGB video out (SCART TV standard, not VGA) that can be used to bypass the PAL issue should you get a model from Europe (you may wanna consider is as shipping from Japan is very expensive and MSX2 machines tend to be on the heavy side).

 

For the resolution, on MSX2, the Yamaha V9938 support those text modes : 80 x 24, 40 x 24 and 32 x 24. It seems MSX1 is limited to 40 columns tho (however I can't exclude a specific version adding a 80 colums mode, but it wouldn't be standard).