EdgeFaction Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Hi everyone! I wanted to start a conversation about what video mods are currently available as I've got a couple of consoles but no supply to mod with! I think there are a number in the same situation. For example at the moment I'm not aware of any RGB based mods that are readily available. @the_crayon_king was the go to but I think real life has him busy. For composite I'm aware of a couple. RetroFixes, a composite clone available on eBay from a guy in Turkey. Speaking of which is there a high quality composite mode that doesn't rely on the RF adapter remaining connected? I understand there is composite video directly generated, it just isn't at a level that most TVs can pick up? Is there anything new on the horizon, any ready made BOM that can be ordered on a service like JLPCB without having to order tons of extra parts? Just hoping there are some options! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted July 21 Author Share Posted July 21 RGB Yannick (Finding components is fun) - Build your own - https://oshwlab.com/yannick.erb/Intellivision-Secam-RH-RGB-Mod_copy_copy The_Crayon_King - Out of Stock https://www.ebay.com/itm/284935701275 Composite Only (all the same really) https://www.retrofixes.com/products/intellivision-composite-upgrade-amp-kit-coming-soon https://www.ebay.com/itm/143829704826 https://www.etsy.com/listing/1688881978/intellivision-i-ii-composite-mod-pcb?gpla=1&gao=1& Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Yannick's board installs in pretty much the exact same way that Crayon's did using the same taps for the signals. But, at least with the older boards I had from Yannick last, they worked well, but only a few scalers would work with them properly. My OSSC would work with it but only in like scale 2x and I think 4x modes. All others produced a picture output that the OSSC couldn't generate properly. And I never did test it with build in scaler cable solutions like the Rad2x or HDRetrovision cables. I'm thinking it didn't quite work with them and I might have had to install a separate composite only board to provide that to the pin4 connection but even then, the sync is so goofy on the Intellivision that I think it still had issues with those cable sets. So again, unless Yannick made some serious design changes after the last set of his boards I had, it did work pretty well other than a few gotchas here and there on NTSC systems. Forgot to mention that AtariAge member @Unstablewarpfield was also in the middle of designing his own RGB output solution for the Intellivision. But I'm not sure what the current status of that project is and of course I've not tested it myself since it wasn't readily available last I heard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted July 21 Author Share Posted July 21 In trying to do my due diligence research, I see wayyy back in 2015, @thecrypticodor with lots of other voices chiming in leading up to it, did a revision to the common Composite schematic where the RF modulator could be removed, a diode was used to drawn down the 12V to consistent 5 on the RF connection, and a few cap tweaks. Also not shown would be running the audio signal through a 100uf Cap like the rest of these mods. I've not seen this implemented on any of the readily available composite mods and have ordered parts to give it a go and see what kind of quality I get - as leaving the RF in I'm sure adds all kinds of extra noise. Without question though, the mods that pull off the STIC or Color chip are the best for Composite and of course all the way up to RGB, I'm just not finding a good DIY solution for it at the moment. ) I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 RetroSix has the CleanComp - https://retrosix.co.uk/CleanComp-Universal-Composite-Video-Out-p651982252 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted July 29 Author Share Posted July 29 To my knowledge, there are no US based Composite (or RGB boards) available to buy for modders. I'm trying something new and seeing if I can create one that has the best video quality, that also replaces the RF modulator. I'm far from an electronic engineer and just attempted to follow @thecrypticodor's schematic and breadboard it out (something brand new for me) and was able to get video out the first try! There is some ghosting and slight darkening, particularly around whites. I'm hoping some of it is from not using shielded cable for the video - instead a LONG bare jumper. I've got some international options ordered to compare to and then I'll see if I can get some prototype boards made. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 21 hours ago, EdgeFaction said: RetroSix has the CleanComp - https://retrosix.co.uk/CleanComp-Universal-Composite-Video-Out-p651982252 This looks quite interesting but I have issues offering any upgrades to install that require any dialing in using trimmers. The reason is simple, my clients do NOT want to have to open up their console to have to adjust anything on a console I've serviced. And while I could get everything adjusted and dialed in looking great on my setups here, I have no way of knowing what it would look like on my clients setup and if it doesn't look look per my clients expectations out of the box, it means they have to take a pic of what they see and don't like and then send the system back to me to adjust and guess based on the pics sent. I've been through this a few times using other boards with similar adjustments on them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 This looks interesting! I've also got a few things I'm working on. I've waiting for some board prototypes for a composite mod drop in RF replacement. It's based on the RF shunt and solarfox mods which a few changes, it seems to put a MUCH better picture than the 2 transiter mod that is being reused. That would at least get us to having something basic for composite with no noise adding RF box needed. I'm also giving a try to ordering Yannic's last published EasyEDA project a try - having a small batch of the boards made and components soldered at the factory. There are a few part differences I'm trying due to supply but we'll see how they turn out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 13 hours ago, EdgeFaction said: This looks interesting! I've also got a few things I'm working on. I've waiting for some board prototypes for a composite mod drop in RF replacement. It's based on the RF shunt and solarfox mods which a few changes, it seems to put a MUCH better picture than the 2 transiter mod that is being reused. That would at least get us to having something basic for composite with no noise adding RF box needed. I'm also giving a try to ordering Yannic's last published EasyEDA project a try - having a small batch of the boards made and components soldered at the factory. There are a few part differences I'm trying due to supply but we'll see how they turn out! Shoot me a PM. I've a few of Yannick's older boards on hand that aren't likely to get used I could send your way. The only issue I had with the last version of the boards that I was sent, was they still had some odd sync issues resulting a curl in the video on the top of the image. On a CRT this wasn't seen as it was in the overscan, and the games I played with that older board in place, didn't show the curl effect on them. But it was definitely there. Aside from that, Yannick's board also only worked in a few scaling modes on my OSSC setup but it did work pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 I've just about got everything in for a round of testing on Composite mods. I think I can absolutely say who had the best, and it was @the_crayon_king's Orange Peel - though it has he advantage of building a new composite signal from the color inputs. It currently has the disadvantage of no supply I'm going to test the following to see which has the best composite. They would all fall under the category of taking the existing composite output and cleaning it up. - RetroFixes Composite (effectively the IntellivisionFAQs Composite mod) * - RetroSix CleanComp Universal * - eurowifi Composite (effectively the IntellivisionFAQs Composite mod) * - My experimental Composite mod RF box Drop in replacement (RF Shunt + solarfox + thecrypticoder and others changes) * International order outside US. My methodology will be to use the same Intellivision II going via RCA Composite to a RetroTink 4K (with no filters on) to an Elgato capture device. My expectation in order of worst to best: eurowifi < retrofixes < rf replace < cleancomp (hard to beat something with bypass filters built on the board with adjustment pots). If my board ends up working out I'll see about firstly releasing all the files for folks to make their own and secondly putting some readily available units up for sale for plain composite. Again though - noting the "clean up the existing composite" mods can never touch the "pull signals from the color chip / STIC" mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 (edited) I'm working on a YouTube Episode to share some of the results and also for a final version of the RF Drop In Replacement, Composite Only board I've tentatively named the CrypticFoxGhost Mod (CFG Mod). I did want to share some snaps just showing the differences in qualrity. I've been learning a lot about Composite - and that the Intellivision - especially the Inty II will only ever be able to go so far with it's generated video signal. The boards that use the color generating flags right from the chips are always going to be better. But the Composite is cheap, and easy to install so I wanted to get to a definitive point and make and offering to the community. I'll detail more methodology in the video- but all of these were taken with the same Intellivision II (one I knew had particularly bad output in RF despite being pretty clean), using the same cable setups inside and out. New caps installed, completely functional. Captured using the same RCA cable to a RetroTink 4K to a Elgato HD60X. Here we go! Give me a post on which one you think wins. They all have their negatives... some way worse. The methodology doesn't help using prototype jumper cables picking up a bit of noise, but I'm testing with all things equal. My opinion is at least we should see there is no point in leaving an RF Modulator in anymore if you to do a video mod, interference is for real. Click on a picture and go through them in Gallery View to see the large and get a nice compare. 1. RetroFixes Using RF Modulator 2. eurowifi Using RF Modulator 3. CleanComp Using RF Modulator 4. RetroFixes using RF Shunt (RF Modulator Removed) 5. eurowifi using RF Shunt (RF Modulator Removed) 6. CleanComp using RF Shunt (RF Modulator Removed) Wouldn't work! I couldn't dial in anything that the RetroTink could pick up. Noting I can get a picture on a regular TV and it looks about as good as with the RF. 7. CrypticFoxGhost Mod (removed RF Modulator, no need for RF Shunt as it is built in) Two bonus screenshots to show the RF - though using an industry grade demodulator to HDMI device. This was captured direct from the 232-ATSC 4 to the Elgato HD60X. Just showing what you can get WITHOUT having to do a mod at all with a quick trip to eBay as the 232-ATSC models are all over (i'm sellling a group of them too). 8. RF to 232-ATSC 4 (Noise Reduction On, 1080p Upscale) 9. RF to 232-ATSC 4 (Noise Reduction OFF, 1080p Upscale) You can check out my video about what I've tried for regular RF conversion and how these 232-ATSC units get the job done! Edited August 10 by EdgeFaction 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 (edited) (Added to prior post) Edited August 10 by EdgeFaction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 I'm also just now aware of a mod by OGHUGO Retro Mod Shop that sells on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/126608617925) that appears to be a RF Shunt plus the original resistor values (non-CrypticCoder updated) with a nice 3D Printed no-cut part for the Inty I/III. He has a bunch of other great retro mods. @OGHUGO are these yours? I've ordered a board and will get a capture of that. My corrected boards should be here this week too to give a final comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 Another one for quick compare as I was working on it for sel. 10. Orange Peel Composite (Generated from Color Chip) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 Here are some RGB - color ship comparatives 10. Yannic RGB (Generated from Color Chip) 10. Orange Peel RGB SCART (Generated from Color Chip) 10. Orange Peel RGB - HD Retrovision Component(Generated from Color Chip) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 16 Author Share Posted August 16 One more for the compare. OGHugo sells these on ebay. Ultimately this one is very comparable to the CrypticFoxGhost Mod I just made boards for. I recommend this mod as the best out there to buy right now for the Composite off the board class. 11. OGHugo Composite (RF Module Remove - Shunt Built In) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 I just posted a video doing a compare of all of the available composite mods out there for now, including the new mod I've been working on (based on old stuff and new form factor). Please check it out and see which Composite Mod is the least crap in comparison. Just to ruin it - I completely endorse OGHugo's mod as the best currently available mod. It had more noise than our own mod, but was still noticably better than the others being based on the same principal (rf shunt + solarfox where as ours is rf shunt + solarfox + crypticoder resistor changes). Enjoy! https://youtu.be/8IsYXNrtF0A 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 For anyone watching and reading through this thread besides @EdgeFaction and myself. I wanted to share that @EdgeFaction has graciously sent me a set of the newer Yannick RGB board and his new composite setup for me to test here at the ITC. From the initial testing I've done, it is possible that with a combo of his board or similar composite and this version of Yannick's RGB, that when combined with a specific set of RGB to component conversion cables or those with a Tink5x or the Tink4k, that this is a setup that can provide decent results going forward if the current boards from Crayon King should no longer be getting made at this point. I still need to do some more testing but I've got a number of different combinations I can try to replicate the lowest grade to mid tier setups that most enthusiasts are likely to have or want to invest in. That is just a still pic from my camera phone. I will see if I can get some direct captures through my Avermedia a bit later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 After testing a bit here and there all through the week, I've finished up what I can test on my end. In looking over videos, I found out that the Yannick 2.0 was the board I was last using just before the Crayon King v5 BP and v3 OP boards were a thing. That was about 3 years ago. Unlike then, I have more equipment and different cables to test with. The TL:DR is this with the Yannick setup. There are only 2 cables I have that will work with it pretty much as it is. That means, you can plug in this cable and then plug it into a modern display via HDMI without anything else needed in the mix. Those two cables are the Rad2x and one of the cheap Genesis 2 HDMI cable setups from Hyperkin, Levelhike..etc. I've only confirmed a Hyperkin cable that I own. The Rad2x has more accurate color output but does show a visual anomaly along the upper edge of the screen that is always present. However, this anomaly doesn't extend into any actual game play area on the games I tested. Another good thing about the Rad2x is that it can be used with any RGB setup wired for Sega 9pin setups and it is self powered from the AV port if wired correctly. It is also a plug and play device with no configuration required. Here is a direct video capture of the MTE-201 test cart being ran through this setup so you can see how it looks from the different test screens with Baseball being shown for a few seconds at the end. And here is the same but using a Hyperkin Genesis model 2 to HDMI cable setup. The colors are duller and some hues look a little off compared to the Rad2x and it does introduce additional lag I could detect with the controller motion, but it does provide pretty much a full screen stable picture without visual issues. Another bonus is that these cable sets can be had for quite cheap for a plug and play solution. These cables do require external power to be supplied from a USB port etc. Here is the direct video capture using the Hyperkin cable set. Another option I haven't shown is the use of Retro Gaming Cables Genesis/MD model 2 to component conversion cables. These cables do the same thing that HDRetrovision cables do, but use a stripped down Retrotink2x at the heart to do the RGB to component conversion. This cable produces a stable picture with good colors. However, I've only gotten it to work through my OSSC setup when I first have it processed through my Extron 7SC. When connecting those cables directly to the OSSC, the signal is seen by the OSSC and locked in, but no actual video output comes up. I also get the exact same results with a set of HDRetrovision cables. Another option for those that might already have 8-pin RGB SCART setups is that this setup will work in that configuration through a RetroTink2x SCART. That is how I was first testing the setup just over 3 years ago with these older boards. Here is an old video that shows that testing through an 8-pin RGB setup on the Tink2x SCART using a set of RGC Packapunch Scart cable. You will notice is has the same video issue along the top as the Rad2x cable set. This makes sense as the Tink2x SCART is the same tech inside the RAD2x. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeFaction Posted September 14 Author Share Posted September 14 I've left this post hanging for a bit but I wanted to circle back on where we are now. Super special thanks for @-^CrossBow^- for his experience, input and time in helping to test these options. RGB There are no do it all RGB boards currently available on the market. Yannic's 2.0 Board is out there where you could have a batch made, but due to the Sync issue I would only recommend it if you are going to use it with one of the Genesis 2 to HDMI options (Rad2X Genesis, HyperKin HDMI and clones) Composite Only After testing all the currently available items on the market, the best option to me is @OGHUGO's Intellivision Componsite Video Kit . It has a built in RF Shunt (which provides the required +5V back to the AY-3-8915 to enable video output - this is why cheaper modes require the RF Modulator to remain). It also is based on the solarfox Composite schematic which in my testing had much better quality. OGHugo offers no-cut mods with kits for the big Intellivision I/III/Sears or the Intellivision II. Supporting Links GamerGhosts Intellivision Composite Board Compare (YouTube Video Compare) -^CrossBow^- Ivory Tower Collections notes on Yannic 2.0 Composite Image Gallery Compare In Order: RetroFixes (with RF), eurowifi (with RF), CleanComp (with RF), RetroFixes (no RF), eurowifi (no RF), CrypticFoxGhost, OGHugo, Orange Peel Composite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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