Good 2 player arcade sticks?

[guitarmas]

Hey guys,

 

I'm working on my Barocera setup. I'm starting to consider getting a 2 player arcade controller setup. Any suggestions?

[akator]

I've had an X-Arcade Tankstick for 20 years and it's still excellent.  I modded it about a decade ago to add spinners.  Now X-Arcade sells a Tankstick that already has the spinners.

 

Over the years I've used my Tankstick with macOS, Windows, Linux, Steam, RetroArch, Lakka, Batocera, and MiSTer.  It works great with all of them.

[guitarmas]

Thanks for the suggestion!  👍

I'll check into it!

 

 

[Trebor]

I have a HotRod SE controller in use for ~25 years.  It's almost like a precursor to the X-Arcade that followed a few years after it.  In fact, X-Arcade sold a conversion kit for the HotRod, which I installed ~15 years ago. 

 

Basically any program that supports remappable keyboard inputs works with the HotRodSE.  

 

The Happ Super 8-way joysticks and Happ buttons continue to work flawlessly.  You can't go wrong with the X-Arcade.  It's more versatile than the HotRod SE, configured by default to mimic the same keyboard input layouts of the HotRod SE, as well as programmable to map to other keyboard inputs, with the same very high quality build.  They say the X-Arcade is built like a tank, and I can confirm the HotRod SE is built like a (slightly smaller) tank.  Rock solid quality and reliability.

 

Courtesy of the Wayback Machine, here is the original site: https://web.archive.org/web/20010602162214/http:/www.hanaho.com:80/products/HotRodJoystick/

 

As far as experience with built hardware directly from X-Arcade, I own the standalone Trackball controller.  They stopped producing the separate Trackball controller and only offer it within the X-Arcade Tankstick controller design currently.  Nonetheless, still a high quality and weighty product.

[guitarmas]

Thanks for the reply.

 

What about 2 of these?

[scotty]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:16 PM, guitarmas said:

Thanks for the reply.

 

What about 2 of these?

I love the X-Arcade.  I replaced the two joysticks with the Ultimarc Ultimate 360s.   A Little on the expensive side but worth every penny.  Best part is, it is a DIRECT Replacement.  No modifications!!   Screw holes mount up perfectly.   The Ultimate 360 is ANALOG, 4-way, 8-way, DIAGONAL (Q*Bert, Congo Bongo!) stick, allowing you to play each game with the proper sticks that it was meant to be played with.   A tiny little app resides on your emulation PC, and you just pick the mode you want the stick to be in a drop down menu.   My scores are a lot higher when playing Pac-Man and Donkey Kong with a 4-way instead of an 8-way.   Also, I have a love affair with the old Atari black and white game Pool Shark using an analog stick.  Only way it can be played.

 

[guitarmas]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not well versed in different kinds and styles of arcade control components. I'm a newb.

[scotty]

19 hours ago, guitarmas said:

Thanks for the reply. I'm not well versed in different kinds and styles of arcade control components. I'm a newb.

Quick crash course:   

 

Games like Pac-Man, Donkey Kong and Frogger use a 4-way joystick.   Only moves (up, down, left or right).

Games like Berzerk, Tron, and Robotron use 8-way sticks (4Up, Down, Left, right and the 4 diagonals)

Games like Red Baron, Food Fight and Star Wars are meant to use analog sticks (Push 1/2 way in a direction, game moves slower than pushing it all the way in a direction).

Games like Q*Bert and Congo Bongo use a standard 4-way stick, mounted in the cabinet at a 45 degree angle.

 

That being said....  

 

8-way is BY FAR the most popular.  More games use 8-way than any other.

Yes, You can use an 8-way stick to play 4-way games, but You have to be more precise.  Mario might be by a ladder, and you are pushing up trying to climb it and Mario will just stop and look at it.   Pac-Man might not go the way you want him to go, and you might lose a life in a tight spot.  It can get VERY, frustrating.   

 

No matter how hard, or how many times you push a 4-way stick, your guy in Berzerk is not going to move or shoot diagonal,

 

Games like Star Wars and other analog games, can be played on a regular stick, but you are not going to get any good scores, as you will not have the control you would with an analog stick.

 

For Q*Bert and Congo Bongo, you can use Up, down, left and right and you can get used to it, but if you ever try to play the real arcade game, you will not be able to adjust and do terrible.   If you use for instance an Atari 2600 joystick with a USB adapter, you can hold the stick at a 45 degree angle, so the red fire button is at the top, instead of upper-left, and that will work better than UDLR.

 

If you grew up in the 90s, and play Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, get an X-Arcade or the ones you showed in the picture.    If you grew up in the 80s, and want the most arcade authentic feel and game play, use the right tool for the job.

 

[guitarmas]

Whoa! Indeed thanks for the reply. 

 

Yeah. So using an 8 way joystick is preferred, especially the X-Arcade setup? I'd like to play Pac-man. Maybe the best way to play it to just use a usb game pad. Does that sound like a decent idea?

[Cynicaster]

On 8/16/2024 at 5:51 PM, guitarmas said:

Whoa! Indeed thanks for the reply. 

 

Yeah. So using an 8 way joystick is preferred, especially the X-Arcade setup? I'd like to play Pac-man. Maybe the best way to play it to just use a usb game pad. Does that sound like a decent idea?

 

I see I'm a little late here, but I can weigh in as somebody who has been tinkering with home MAME cabinet and arcade controls setups for almost 15 solid years.

 

Game controls are like anything else - people have different opinions - so I'll start by sharing one of mine: playing Pac-Man (and similar games) with a d-pad is so dreadful, I think it should be considered an affront to humanity.  I mean, it's like one tick above touch screen controls - it's that bad.  😋

 

I'd strongly encourage you to figure something out on this and take the plunge, because once you get a taste of it, there is really no replacement for real arcade controls when playing these old games.  

 

If you're going to go with an off-the-shelf commercially available joystick which is almost certainly going to have only one joystick type, then you definitely want it to be an 8-way.  Why?  Because it's the most "general purpose" type.  In other words, you can play 4-way games with an 8-way, but not vice versa.  An 8-way may not provide the best experience on Frogger or Donkey Kong but you can at least play the games.  As a side note, there is no such thing as a universal one-size-fits-all joystick.  Even within the different types there are big differences (i.e. not all 8-ways are the same, etc.) To partially address that problem, that's why my "daily driver" control panel is a home-built unit that includes dedicated 8-way and 4-way sticks.

 

On one of my secondary setups, I do have the X-Arcade tank stick with the built-in trackball that has been mentioned here and I can confirm it's a pretty decent solution.  Very good build quality, but IMO the stock joysticks stink.  Luckily, the unit is purposefully designed to allow for modification and drop-in replacements.  I replaced the stock sticks in my X-Arcade with a pair of Happ Competitions and the thing works like a champ now.  Happ Competitions are (again, IMO) a very solid general-purpose 8-way joystick and they're not very expensive ($10-$15 each last I checked - they last forever so haven't had to shop for replacements in a while).

 

Last comment - you posted that 8BitDo controller, which I've never personally used, but it's received decent reviews from what I've seen and also allows for swapping in different parts.  And it is wireless, too, which may be a selling point for you.  My only concern with that would be, it seems like a pain to have 2 separate joysticks, dealing with connectivity issues, controller mapping issues, etc.  A controller like an X-arcade is "seen" by the computer is one big keyboard, so you can map inputs once and the emulators don't get confused - they just work.  With two separate bluetooth controllers, with certain emulators, you're almost certainly going to have hassles with the software forgetting which one is which, mixing them up, and shit like that.  

 

  

 

 

 

  

 

 

[guitarmas]

Thanks for your response!

 

Nope, not late at all!

 

I'll really consider the X-Arcade Tank Stick. It seems like a great decision for my emulation needs. How's the lag? I'm still new to serious emulation. I'm using Batocera. 

I mean a control pad will work, but not give the same experience that I can have with a genuine arcade control setup. 

I'm curious. How in the world do you calibrate the trackball?

The X-Arcade will be recognized as a keyboard? Major selling point!

 

Thanks again!

Edited August 30 by guitarmas
Grammar Error

[Cynicaster]

On 8/29/2024 at 2:40 PM, guitarmas said:

I'll really consider the X-Arcade Tank Stick. It seems like a great decision for my emulation needs. How's the lag?

Well, since it plugs in via USB and is recognized as a keyboard, I think any lag associated with the X-arcade itself would be about as low as possible for an input device.  If you went with the wireless 8Bitdo joysticks, those might introduce a smidge more lag due to the wireless layer (not sure - just speculating). 

 

Most of the lag in emulation comes from other downstream factors such as how demanding the emulation is vs. your computer's power and also what settings you're using on the emulator.  If you have a bunch of shaders and filters running and you're trying to upscale the resolution, and other such trickery, you're effectively increasing the amount of number crunching that needs to be done to render each frame so you may introduce lag that wouldn't be there otherwise. 

 

Also, lots of big screen TVs unfortunately suck for emulation because they introduce a ton of noticeable lag even when they have a "game mode" setting that is supposed to eliminate that problem, but doesn't entirely.  There are probably TVs out there that do a much better job of this than my TVs do but I've pretty much given up on doing my emulation on my living room TV for this reason.  I mean, I have a hacked Wii hooked up with 5 or 6 emulators that I use here and there to play some retro games for a quick blast, but when I'm in a mood to more "seriously" play a game, I typically do all my emulating on a dedicated setup that uses either a computer monitor or CRT television.  I really enjoy shoot-em-ups and that style of game is (IMO) among the most lag-sensitive which makes it important to reduce lag to the absolute minimum possible because even a little bit becomes noticeable.

 

On 8/29/2024 at 2:40 PM, guitarmas said:

I mean a control pad will work, but not give the same experience that I can have with a genuine arcade control setup.

  

Exactly.  A control pad is better than nothing, and lots of games that you are already used to playing with a control pad (like old platformers or RPGs) will be fine, but if you really want to dig into MAME then arcade controls just elevate the experience way above what is possible with d-pad controllers.  At least, that was the epiphany I had when I graduated from Logitech USB controller to arcade controls.  I've also found that when you have an old console game that is of a style strongly associated with arcades or is a port of an arcade game (shooters once again come to mind) then playing those with arcade controls can be awesome too even though you may have played them with a handheld controller in the 80s or 90s. 

 

On 8/29/2024 at 2:40 PM, guitarmas said:

I'm curious. How in the world do you calibrate the trackball?

 

You don't, really; you just set the sensitivity.  MAME will see the trackball as a "mouse" that provides X and Y inputs (for left/right and up/down, respectively).  For each axis you go into the settings and set a "sensitivity" which is basically a number from zero up to some high number (I can't recall what the maximum setting is).  For "calibrating" you basically just use trial and error and keep tweaking the sensitivity until the game "feels" right.  You can make these settings universally for your whole MAME library, but also customize it on a game-by-game basis if you wish.  In other words, when you load a trackball game, the software will check to see if you have created game-specific trackball settings.  If you have, they get loaded.  If you have not, the global defaults are loaded.     

 

 

  

Edited September 5 by Cynicaster
typo

[guitarmas]

Thank you so much for all the great details!

 

i had some sound lag. I was going from the PC to the TV via HDMI then to the soundbar via optical. So I just ran the audio directly from the PC to the soundbar via 3.5mm analog.

 

I'm seriously considering an X-Arcade Tank Stick. 

 

The only issue is, I dont have anything to prop it on. 😅

 

 

Edited September 5 by guitarmas
Added txt.

[Cynicaster]

16 hours ago, guitarmas said:

I'm seriously considering an X-Arcade Tank Stick. 

 

The only issue is, I dont have anything to prop it on. 😅

 

Hmmm... yeah, that is definitely something to figure out because the Tank Stick is a hefty piece of kit that doesn't really lend itself to constant setup/tear-down each time you use it.  I mean, you can do that, but if you're anything like me then the hassle (no matter how trivial it may be in the big picture) of pulling it out of a closet, connecting it, finding a table to set it on, etc. would basically amount to it never being used even if it otherwise would be.  

 

In other words, if there is any way you can set it up so it's always just "ready" to walk up and play, then that's the way to go because then you'll use it all the time.  

 

I build this simple pedestal for mine, which works great and makes it basically like half of a MAME cabinet, with all the benefits that brings (namely: permanent setup, controls mounted in a sturdy way to not slide around, and at a comfortable height for extended play sessions for either standing or sitting on a stool).  For the last 5-6 years, this particular setup has been over at a buddy's house because I have a full cabinet in my basement and don't really have a use for this thing at home.  We play it all the time when I'm over there, though.   

 

 

You know your own personal threshold of pain for setup of controllers better than anyone, but based only on my own, my recommendation would be to either:

 

1) figure out some sort of way to have the X-arcade setup so it's super convenient (and comfortable) to use; or

2) if that's not feasible for you, get some kind of smaller controller like the 8BitDo or similar that you can easily pull out of a drawer and use on-demand

 

 

[ClassicGMR]

Just to echo - I've had my X-Arcade tankstick for 14-ish years now (most of the pics/links do not work but that's the first thread I made about it). It works great to this day with no mods at all. Literally out of the box use. At the time my wife also bought me a 22" arcade cabinet from Rec Room Masters for less than $200 $400 (at the time). It also is still a sturdy beast. We still use it 2-3 times a week and now my grand kids use it as well. It HAS to be durable.

 

I JUST bought the newest Tankstick with the built in spinners and expect no less from this one as well. It's excellent. I just don't have any recent pictures yet.

 

Right now I'm running a 22" 720p Emerson television, the newest Tankstick Max, the same reliable Cyber Authority 2.1 speakers, 2600-daptor, Vision-daptor and an XBox One controller. The PC is a cobbled together 12th Gen i5, 512GB M.2, 16GB RAM and a GTX 1660ti. More than enough horsepower to run anything modern and emulate PS2 and below.

 

So whatever you decide now will evolve over the years if you keep it up.

 

 

 

Edited September 23 by ClassicGMR
Wow I romanticized that price tag over the years. LOL!

[HatefulGravey]

There is a lot of talk about buying an X-Arcade stick, and if that's what you want to do I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Don't discount the idea of building your own control panel. I was in your boat a little over 10 years ago and I'm super happy I decided to build something. I decided I wanted a dedicated 4 way stick for the older games and I can't imagine playing without it. There are are a lot of plans out there that make this option easier than you might think.

 

Just wanted to give some representation to the DIY options. 

[Cynicaster]

On 9/23/2024 at 8:13 AM, ClassicGMR said:

I JUST bought the newest Tankstick with the built in spinners

Interesting, I've never seen that model before.  What can you do with 2 spinners?  I'm sure there's something, but I'm struggling to think of a single game that would take advantage of that... at least in arcade/MAME.  Emulation of Video Olympics maybe?