MegaManFan Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/s...ur/saboteur.htm After paying another visit to Matt's excellent AtariProtos website, I got to thinking about this game, and the fact that a completed and apparently ready to be manufactured/sold version of it exists on cart. I would think as the actual author of the code Mr. Warshaw would retain the rights to it, but I don't know what kind of intellectual property agreements he or any of the other Atari employees had in those days. It occurs to me though that if he does own this code, it could be licensed, and subsequently: * AtariAge could do a very professional print run of these carts. * Howard could write a manual for it that fully explains the concept and gameplay. * If either party was interested, it could debut at PC or AGE and he could be there to autograph it. I wouldn't dare to presume Mr. Warshaw is interested in such a project if he does own the code he wrote, so this may all just be wishful thinking on my part, but since he's lurking around the boards these days I'm hoping he might address the subject and/or possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Looks like a fun game! For those who have the Cuttle Cart: http://www.atariage.com/software_page.html...wareLabelID=816 Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I thought about this several times, but I didn't want to pester HSW with something petty like this. However if Howard gives the green light I'm willing to do it. Doing something similiar with the A-Team is pretty much out of the question though due to copyright problems. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzLee Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Or you could buy my proto... signed by the man, HSW, himself -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Or you could buy my proto... signed by the man, HSW, himself What version is it? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzLee Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 What version is it? I believe my copy it is the last dated (i.e., the newest) version. I'd have to check when I get around to pulling them all out and posting them to my page. Most of my protos will be listed on my webpages soon. Most will be for sale. A word of warning here... I will entertain, only serious offers.. all others will be ignored. To avoid and weed out any of "that's ridiculus" or "that's outrageous" remarks from folks, I will not be listing prices or even the fact that they are for sale. In any event, this is a topic for the marketplace when I get around to it (I'm in no hurry at the moment). I've started my protos page at: http://home.earthlink.net/~resqsoft/protos.htm I will make a formal announcement when I have finished the page. -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 I'd be willing to buy the prototype and have Albert dump it for a cart run if Howard will greenlight it. I'm just waiting to see if he has anything to say on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 The dump for Saboteur is already available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 Whoops! Umm, so why do we need to buy the prototype then? Is it a later version than the dump already available, or is it exactly the same? And to address an earlier comment, I don't see this as "nagging Howard." Actually from having talked to him by PM and e-mail already, I get the impression he's really happy people are still talking about and playing his games today; and obviously he wants to share Atari's history with us given he made the "Once Upon Atari" DVD. With Saboteur he could do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Hmm Tempest says this is one of the best unreleased 2600 games. Guess I'll fire up the Cuttle tonight! Gawdamn I lub Atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I'd be willing to buy the prototype and have Albert dump it for a cart run if Howard will greenlight it. I'm just waiting to see if he has anything to say on the subject. Tell you what, if you can get Howard's ok then I'll post the dump from my proto (which afaik is the final). Normally I don't mind releasing proto dumps sans permission (except when told not to), but since we know the programmer this time I'd like to get his say so first. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 Consider it done. I just put in my formal request/plea to him personally, and now await his response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hswwsh Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Hey Everybody, Here's the deal. I was an ATARI employee at the time, therefore anything I did on their time with their equipment was theirs, straight up. Now this game was never released, and the lagacy rights to ATARI properties has gone through something of a pachinko machine I do not know the legal aspects of rights to unreleased games, I do know that since I worked there I do not hold them, ipso facto. I would also like to say that I read the tempest review of the game and it was the most insightful (and flattering ) review I have read in a long time. It truly nailed the nuances of game play and I do indeed believe it would have been a big hit and it would have appealed to Yars fans with the same kind of action-shooter goodness I put in Yars. After Raiders and ET I was dying to get back to basic shooter games, those were always my favorite. I cannot release anyone on my authority to do anything with it. But if I can help get it out and around, I would love to have more people enjoying it. I thought it was a pretty good game and I would love to hear what true gamers think about it. And by the way, anyone who addresses me in these forums is never annoying me. At the worst I might not see it for a while, but I am always happy to chat enjoyably on the 'Age. HSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Well that's good enough for me! I'll give the rom for Al to post shortly. I would also like to say that I read the tempest review of the game and it was the most insightful (and flattering ) review I have read in a long time. It truly nailed the nuances of game play and I do indeed believe it would have been a big hit and it would have appealed to Yars fans with the same kind of action-shooter goodness I put in Yars. After Raiders and ET I was dying to get back to basic shooter games, those were always my favorite. Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 So how do we take it to the next step from here? It's generally been proven that companies are not taking issue with small print runs of Atari carts (100 units or less) even if they own the copyright, unless SOMEONE tips them off to file a cease and desist. And in this case, I think the neo-Atari of today doesn't have the rights to it anyway, and would be burying themselves in a legal quagmire trying to prove they had more right to say what to do with the code than Howard does if they even +wanted+ to pursue litigation. Therefore I see no reason a run of Saboteur carts and manuals couldn't be done through the AA store, with Howard getting a per piece royalty. What sayest thou Albert, can we make it happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 What sayest thou Albert, can we make it happen? I meant to talk to Al about this last night, but I went and saw the Matrix instead. even if they own the copyright, unless SOMEONE tips them off to file a cease and desist Sadly this is why I can't give out the A-Team rom. There's always SOMEONE trying to rain on the parade. However Saboteur shouldn't be a problem. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Mitchell Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well that's good enough for me! I'll give the rom for Al to post shortly. So this BIN is different from the one already in the AA database? Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 So this BIN is different from the one already in the AA database? Yes. My version is more than likely the "complete" version whereas the one on AA is a 90% finished version. The level order mechanics are different and the warhead is there. If you play it you'll notice a difference. You can check out the differences here: http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/s...ur/saboteur.htm Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 I'm looking forward to the new BIN more than I am the new Matrix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariDude Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 I visited the site to look at the pictures for the game. In HSW's Once upon Atari, there is a video of a similar looking game with what looks like Mr. T's head instead of the character. Are these hacks of each other or is Saboteur the original game and the Mr. T version a hack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moycon Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 I visited the site to look at the pictures for the game. In HSW's Once upon Atari, there is a video of a similar looking game with what looks like Mr. T's head instead of the character. Are these hacks of each other or is Saboteur the original game and the Mr. T version a hack? That very page on Tempest's site answered your question, cept you have to do more than look at the pictures!!! http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/s...ur/saboteur.htm Saboteur is a highly original game, and would have been a sure fire hit for Atari. According to Howard, Saboteur was compete and just about to be released when Atari decided they wanted to change it into the A-Team. Why Atari thought Saboteur would make a good game for their A-Team license is anyone's guess, but it was due to this that Saboteur got shelved indefinitely. Sadly the A-Team never was released either, so players were ultimately denied the chance to play one of the best games on the 2600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariDude Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 It is too bad that Atari did not release the game. It looked like it might have been a fun game. Howard, if you are listening, it would be great if you could release the game or a work alike if you no longer have the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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