Measuring interest for fixing 5200 digital joystick problems with Qix, Popeye, other 4 way games on digital Stick

[netrogames]

On a couple of streams a long time ago I demonstrated how using a coin competition Pro on Qix and Popeye cause problems with the game just glitching out. 

 

I tested a theory I use my fight stick as a Sega Genesis fight stick and plugged it into a RetroGameBoyz.com Genesis to 5200 controller physically locked my controller with my 8-way four-way alternator to put it in four-way mode and the game never glitched. 

 

So some people have four-way modes but most people with fight sticks do not. 

 

I thought there was possibly an electronic way to fix this and I was thinking that the fighting game community with hitbox solves the problem of simultaneous opposite cardinal direction cleaners or SOCD cleaners.

 

I asked the guy hit box if he can make a product I called the Cardinal En4cer. (pronounced Enforcer). Basically it's using the same SOCD cleaner technology but instead of cleaning simultaneous opposite cardinal directions it's an electronic diagonal cleaner.

 

Someone at Hitbox recommended BitBang.

 

People say bit bangs SOCD cleaner is programmable so I thought okay maybe it should be programmable to turn it into a diagonal cleaner as one of the many modes it has.  (And believe it or not it does not have a diagonal cleaner as far as I know.)

 

My theory is if you have a digital joystick and it always goes awry on a few games when you go into diagonal then if a physical diagonal lock out works then maybe an electronic one would work just as well if it's low enough ping.

 

Well BitBang agrees with me that he can program a bit bang SOCD cleaner to be a diagonal cleaner as extra modes.  He said he has the knowledge to do it.  And he said it would be worth this while if there were 100 pre-orders of an Atari 5200 adapter which you could put in between either your coin competition or your retrogameboyz.com Genesis to 5200 adapter for digital joysticks,   and should act as a way to get a 5200 game working correctly with those four-way games. 

 

Right now I'm gauging interest in probably the largest gathering of 5200 owners which is Atari Ages 5200 pages And I'm just gauging the support for an electronic diagonal cleaner for the 5200 so you don't have to physically change the joystick to make it work with the 5200 on those four games.

 

Why does a real Atari 5200 analog stick work with these games but not a digital joystick because digital joy 6 are wired directly to north south east and west and combinations like them both up maximally, however the analog stick is circle limited physically. The reason why the analog stick acts as a good four-way is because it uses Pythagorean lockout technology.  If it's 80% or more in one axis it's guaranteed to be 60% or less in the other axis because if the radius of the controller is one unit whatever that one unit is then 0.6² + 0.8² = 1². There's is physically impossible to be 80% or more in one direction and simultaneously be confused about diagonals.  I call it Pythagorean diagonal lockout. The only fancy thing you need is a brain to design it and it's already been implemented by Atari in its original run.

 

However digital joystick when an x-axis and a y-axis switches actuated actuates them both at full strength or one.  1² + 1² = 1.41^2. 

 

What that gives you is full X and Y movements and that gives you what is essentially in terms of radial distance a diagonal speed boost.  And without the physical circle limiter it's like you have a square limiter on your device. 

 

If people want to play Dreadnaught Factor with a digital Stick but people claim that using a digital stick is cheating because you go faster If you use XY controls versus radial controls and the original controller only had a radius of 1, This device will bring it back to tournament spec. 

 

There are five modes I can think of that are useful as a diagonal cleaner and if you want to suggest other modes that may be useful let me know.

 

They are 

1. 70.7% mode (slows down diagonals to what should be the correct speed with a radial controller because .707² + .707² = 1² 

The other four modes use SOCD technology which is normally used for hitboxes so that if you have a left and right input that can be simultaneously inputted the circuits will make sure only one or neither is pressed based on predictable behaviors based on what's considered the appropriate hitbox setting for a fighting game. 

 

The ones used in the diagonal cleaner mode similarly instead of worrying about lefts and rights being simultaneous and worrying about ups and downs being simultaneous If you have a joystick a joystick locks out physically the left/right and up/down simultaneous presses, then the pair of things they'll make sure it won't simultaneous express is x-axis actuation and y-axis actuation.

 

It could also work for Hitbox and other all button controllers, or ABC controllers,  if it can simultaneously be an SOCD cleaner and a diagonal cleaner.

 

I'm just going to research the Atari 5200 pinouts and figure out whether each pin represents a direction or whether it's zero equals one extreme and one equals the other extreme and 0.5 is centered on that axis. 

 

 

I'm just gauging if there's significant enough support where 100 Atari 5200 owners or more would like to buy a diagonal cleaner for their 5200.  The guy at Big bang says that the theory sounds correct and he has the ability to program such a thing but needs a hundred pre buyers in order to fund making 100 of these.

 

I understand 100 people saying "wouldn't it be nice if this were possible. put me on the list" Is not the  same as 100 people saying " the pre-orders are going to cost X dollars put me down for one of those."

 

So this is just the preliminary feeler for the Atari 5200 community.

 

By the way the current price of a Big bang SOCD cleaner is $25 US.  Go to BigBangArcade.com to see his SOCD cleaner for brands of ABC controllers other than hitbox.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cobra Kai]

Never had any 5200 game glitch out on me from the joystick, and I've had/have multiple custom built digital joysticks, and a Competition Pro. 

[netrogames]

Probably the reason is that you have a 4/8 way adjuster on your fight stick, and you set it on 4 way mode.

 

If you don't, and play a 4 way game with an 8 way stick like a competition Pro, there'll be certain instances within the game where if you hit a diagonal the game will glitch.  I intentionally made that happen in Popeye and Qix with a Competition Pro.

 

It's all because Atari used Pythagorean Lockout, and a "stock fight stick" does not compensate for that.