New option to solve 130XE mushiness

[Mark2008]

I will do a picture post on this later but for now - just got excited so going to make a quick post.

 

In the past, I had used Best XE Touch keyboard upgrade for replacing the silicon domes in an Atari XE keyboard.  I never had the original version, only the latest version.

 

I was disappointed with the results because the resulting keyboard, while not mushy, then becomes, in my view,  unusually stiff. 

 

Anyway, today I took apart my Logitech K120 keyboard and was surprised to find that its silicone domes work just fine in the Atari XE as well.  In fact, about 80% of the keyboard can be covered just by cutting out part of the sheet, without worry about individual keys, leaving them in place on the sheet - covers most of the keyboard.  And then because the keyboard isn't exactly the same, I have to individually cut the domes from the original sheet for the remaining keys.

 

And you can buy these Logitech K120 keyboards for $9 shipped from Ebay so it is cheap enough to buy it for parts.

 

Anyway, I have a Decent XE mechanical keyboard, a Best XE Touch upgraded keyboard, and now a Logitech K120 membrane upgraded keyboard.

 

I would say about the results - is the Decent XE, being mechanical is of course the best.  The XE Touch and the Logitech K120 membrane upgrades to the original XE keyboard (Sugiyama version only - no springs under keycaps). I would say the Logitech K120 is much more in line with the actuation force expected on modern keyboards.   I am aware that actuation force is typically measured in grams - 35g, 45g, 55g, etc.  But I do not yet know what the XE Touch upgrade  or the K120 actually requires, I will see if I can find out.    But for now I will say, the Best XE Touch upgrade is more stiff than the Logitech K120 upgrade variant...they are both similar in feel, with the latter having a lower actuation force, for me it is clearly superior.  But, it is a matter of taste, if someone wants an unusually stiff feel, they would be better off with the Best variant.

 

Basically I'm putting the K120 upgrade in all my 130xe keyboards now, to me it solves the mushiness in an inexpensive way, and makes it on par with modern keyboards.

 

p.s. FYI, I also did the reverse process to save the Logitech K120, and this required very careful placement because the XE domes are not on a sheet, but individual...but I  put the original XE silicon domes carefully in place in the Logitech K120 keyboard, making the world's worst, mushy modern keyboard - it works, definitely has the mush. 

Edited October 9 by Mark2008

[+MrFish]

12 minutes ago, Mark2008 said:

I had used Best XE Touch keyboard upgrade

According to his website, he's sold out of them. I don't know if that means temporarily out of stock, or permanently. So, at least at the moment, a source for any type of XE keyboard upgrade is needed.

 

[Mark2008]

OMG socks and a hair on the keyboard?  I need to work on my picture game.

 

But the first set of pictures is about the keyboard activation force.

 

I found out one way hobbyist measure it is by stacking pennies.

 

the results
 

• "Mechanical Keyboard" activation force:    16 pennies.  
• Grey Atari 130XE keyboard "Logitech K120" upgrade activated at 22 pennies
• Yellow Atari 130XE keyboard "Best XE Touch" upgrade, never activated, as I could not stack that many pennies, photo is 38, highest I got was 40.

 

The pennies were all minted before 1982, so they weigh 3.11grams.   So mechanical keyboard is 50g.   Logitech K120 XE upgrade: 68g.  Best XE upgrade, couldn't measure as I cannot stack that many pennies, but greater than 124g.

 

Which means the Best XE Touch upgrade, at least the one I was sold, recall I only ever got the second variant, has a greater activation force than any keyboard I've ever seen for sale.  As a comparison, what I looked at yesterday on AliExpress, rubber domes compatible with HHKB/Realforce/Des/Niz were rated 25g to 55g.

 

 

Edited October 10 by Mark2008

[Mark2008]

And here is a piece of the rubber sheet with the rubber domes inside the K120.  I will do a write up and video when I get another K120 in the mail.

 

Since I didn't do it today when I put together my keyboard.

 

But basically the K120 is a full sheet, connected.  You can cut out a wide swath of it and cover about 80% of the Atari keyboard - no need to cut them individually for most.  They are the same space.   But, then there are some keys left and I just cut them out to cover the rest of the keys.

 

Really it doesn't need much of a write up, but I will just do the video for entertainment purposes.

[+MrFish]

2 hours ago, Mark2008 said:

Best XE upgrade, couldn't measure as I cannot stack that many pennies, but greater than 124g.

 

[Edit]

Now I'm starting to wonder what some of my various keyboards clock in at. I've got a few, including a pretty old, but nice, clicky, AT (5-pin DIN).

 

[Mark2008]

3 hours ago, MrFish said:

 

[Edit]

Now I'm starting to wonder what some of my various keyboards clock in at. I've got a few, including a pretty old, but nice, clicky, AT (5-pin DIN).

 

I am thinking I should expand the tests too, original keyboard without upgrade,  800xl, and original k120.  i suspect the same domes in the k120 make for lighter activation which makes sense, the original k120 didnt also have any spring to fight against.  the ideal solution would

not be 68g for my tastes… it is an improvement but room for future improvement if some even lighter domes can be found.   I dont have an old AT keyboard here, pity because i recall really liking that keyboard

Edited October 10 by Mark2008

[+slx]

Dumping 90% of a working keyboard even if it is 9$ only seems a bit wasteful to me. It would be great to get that sheet or the silicone cups only and someone in China must have a lot of those…

[Mark2008]

Here is a more complete write up.

 

 

The donor keyboard.  $9.

 

 

 

Remove the screws.

 

 

 

This what you'll see.  I save the USB cable for other projects and the rubber membrane is what we'll need.

 

 

The membrane just comes right out, nothing special.

 

 

An XE GS keyboard - or 130XE or 65 XE is fine.

 

 

A picture of a key puller.  Pull a key, if you have springs under the keycaps, this project isn't for you.

 

You need the kind that uses rubber domes.

 

 

Picture of a dirty keyboard.  But,  no springs, so we are good.

 

 

 

Time to remove all those little screws and remove the metal plate from the back of the XE keyboard.

 

 

 

After you remove the metal plate and the Atari keyboard mylar, you can remove the original silicon domes from each key.

 

 

 

 

Here I've placed the Logitech rubber sheet over the Atari keyboard, trying to cut out a big a piece as possible to cover most of the keys.

 

 

 

 

And in one large piece I've covered most of the keys, but I will just individually cover the rest.

 

 

 

That's the rest of the keys.

 

 

 

 

I've temporarily hooked it up to a 130xe to test.

 

 

 

All the keys function.  BTW, this 130XE is fully socketed and has the Simple XE Super video mod.  Just soldering every day now....

 

 

 

21 pennies to activate, not bad.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:42 AM by Mark2008

[Mark2008]

p.s. I do find some domes on AliExpress that visually appear likely to work, but they are so much more expensive than $9, that I'm going to pass on trying them. 

 

 

[+kheller2]

Do we have a XE keyboard variant thread here at AA?  I’ve only have blue and white/clear domes on my units but I know there were other types as well.