1200XL as an upgrade?

[phoney]

I do love my Atari 800, but I've been eyeing a s3xy 1200XL on eBay as a potential upgrade, especially so I can run software that requires an XL and have a little more RAM to program into. I vaguely remember there were compatibility problems though? Have those been solved (or is there an add-on they can be solved with?)

 

Yes, I like the 1200XL design better than the 800XL and 130XE ...

[+slx]

36 minutes ago, phoney said:

I do love my Atari 800, but I've been eyeing a s3xy 1200XL on eBay as a potential upgrade, especially so I can run software that requires an XL and have a little more RAM to program into. I vaguely remember there were compatibility problems though? Have those been solved (or is there an add-on they can be solved with?)

 

Yes, I like the 1200XL design better than the 800XL and 130XE ...

You should be able to get rid of all compatibility problems by installing an OS switcher or Ultimate1MB. The 1200XL does not have a PBI port (which can be retrofitted with lots of work only). There are newly developed expansion cards for the PBI-connected 1090 expansion box remake but you have to judge yourself whether that is something you might need.

 

If you just want to be able to run XL software on your 800 an Incognito board is the way to go, it will allow the 800 to switch between "classic" 800 in Colleen mode or impersonate an 800XL, both with 1MB memory. On top of the U1MB feature set it adds a built-in slot for flash storage. It fits into the OS ROM card slot and requires a few wires to be connected to the motherboard.

 

The 1200XL is indeed a cool looking machine (and I like it better than the 800XL, too), but the recessed cartridge slot can be a bit tricky with some modern cartridges (e.g. SIDE2) that are easier to use with an extension.

[phoney]

I can't solder, unfortunately. So the solder-y upgrades are a little beyond me. But maybe that's a new skill to learn, on a computer I can break ... hm.

 

I have very slightly messed up my 800's keyboard. Not cripplingly, but it's not as fluid as it was.

 

And I did like the design look of the 1200XL!

[reifsnyderb]

I like too like the looks and keyboard of the 1200XL.  The extra function keys are a nice touch and it's too bad they weren't put on the 600XL's and 800XL's. 

 

Even with "standard" Atari cartridges, I am not fond of the cartridge slot.  In my opinion, the cartridge should stick out about an inch so as to be able to remove them easily.

 

The lack of a PBI is a huge problem as it makes upgrades difficult.

 

That all being said, I did find a way to upgrade it with an cartridge extender board that has both an OS and BASIC on it.

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by reifsnyderb

[phoney]

You KNOW I'm a massive sucker for your boards, reifsnyderb. You make it far too easy to upgrade things. I don't see this one in your store though?

 

I have found I don't really use cartridges - I run everything off my Fujinet.

 

What upgrades rely on the PBI?

[_The Doctor__]

MIO, Black Box, IDE, 1090xl, 1091xl, SubAVG cart, just to get a start. Then there are memory add ons, diagnostic rigs and cards, certain freezers/ramdisks.

Edited 13 hours ago by _The Doctor__

[phoney]

Eh, not like any of those were going to work with my 800 either, lol

[flashjazzcat]

If you're capable of spending ten minutes taking no more than 0.5mm of plastic off either side of a... um... SIDE3 cartridge shell with some medium grit sandpaper, the 1200XL cartridge tunnel problem is solved, and if you combine that cartridge with Ultimate 1MB, OS incompatibility and the lack of a PBI connector also become a non-issue. All the functionality of the aforementioned mountain of add-ons without PCBs and adapters sticking out of the case, and at a fraction of the cost. Of course, this assumes you can source one of the older SIDE3 carts (since I can't recommend SIDE 3.2 with the GoWin FPGA at all).

 

Unlike the much vaunted AVG cart and other variants, U1MB/SIDE3 does not require any external PBI connection whatsoever to accomplish fundamentally the same result.

[reifsnyderb]

38 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

If you're capable of spending ten minutes taking no more than 0.5mm of plastic off either side of a... um... SIDE3 cartridge shell with some medium grit sandpaper, the 1200XL cartridge tunnel problem is solved, and if you combine that cartridge with Ultimate 1MB, OS incompatibility and the lack of a PBI connector also become a non-issue. All the functionality of the aforementioned mountain of add-ons without PCBs and adapters sticking out of the case, and at a fraction of the cost. Of course, this assumes you can source one of the older SIDE3 carts (since I can't recommend SIDE 3.2 with the GoWin FPGA at all).

 

Unlike the much vaunted AVG cart and other variants, U1MB/SIDE3 does not require any external PBI connection whatsoever to accomplish fundamentally the same result.

Sorry.  The lack of a PBI is an issue.  You can't use any 1090XL cards.   😞  So, no 80 column card, no Z-80 card, no CX-85 card, etc.  😞

 

[reifsnyderb]

41 minutes ago, phoney said:

Eh, not like any of those were going to work with my 800 either, lol

Well, I do have cards for the 800 on my Tindie site.   🙂    Also, I've got a new 1056 card that has the option of adding a chip and battery so as to retain the memory.  A RAM disk, for example, should survive the power being shut off.

[phoney]

Sandpaper, I'm up for. The U1MB installation looks pretty fearsome for a non-solderer though.

[reifsnyderb]

1 hour ago, phoney said:

You KNOW I'm a massive sucker for your boards, reifsnyderb. You make it far too easy to upgrade things. I don't see this one in your store though?

 

I have found I don't really use cartridges - I run everything off my Fujinet.

 

What upgrades rely on the PBI?

Thanks!  I'll have those 1200XL extender cartridges in my store soon.  I have the boards and found out I am about out of the cartridge slot edge connector.  The edge connectors should be in this week.

 

@_The Doctor__ pretty much covered all the PBI add-ons.

[flashjazzcat]

26 minutes ago, reifsnyderb said:

Sorry.  The lack of a PBI is an issue.  You can't use any 1090XL cards.   😞  So, no 80 column card, no Z-80 card, no CX-85 card, etc.  😞

It may be for you, but it may not be an issue for the OP to whom I am making the suggestion. I've just built such a system on video (for an American client) which also has VBXE and PokeyMAX, and I doubt the owner will be left wanting.

23 minutes ago, phoney said:

The U1MB installation looks pretty fearsome for a non-solderer though.

It is a little more involved on the 1200XL (since the machine needs to be modded for single OS-ROM XL/XE compatibility), but if you're determined to turn the 1200XL into a powerful and usable machine, you either need to be able to solder or be prepared to send the machine to a technician who can do the work for you.

 

For illustration, I extensively modded one of my 1200XLs some thirteen years ago (U1MB, VBXE, stereo POKEY) and fitted a PBI connector to it, back when all the HDD host adapters needed an external parallel bus connector. As time went on and SIDE2 (and later SIDE3) arrived, that PBI connector became completely redundant for me and I sold the machine a couple of months ago to an American buyer. As with any XEGS that comes through my hands these days, the lack of a parallel bus connector on the 1200XL is a non-issue. Of course, if you're determined to connect all kinds of external peripherals, it will be a deal-breaker, but if you're into that and not into modding, just buy an 800XL or a 130XE.

 

This is the one that's going back to the customer imminently, anyway (VBXE, PokeyMAX, U1MB, UAV and SIDE3).

SIDE3 unobtrusively inserted. Bootable hard disk, ATR mounting, cartridge emulation, game loader, 1MB of RAM, RGB video, etc. The only visible external change is the enlarged hole at the back where the RF modulator used to be (now occupied by a DIN13 connector).

 

Edited 11 hours ago by flashjazzcat

[phoney]

Does the U1MB include a video fix or is that an additional mod?

[reifsnyderb]

1 minute ago, phoney said:

Does the U1MB include a video fix or is that an additional mod?

Video fixes are an additional mod.  You could get video upgrades, such as Sophia, or mod the board.  (I just modded the board on mine.)

[flashjazzcat]

15 minutes ago, phoney said:

Does the U1MB include a video fix or is that an additional mod?

UAV is the one you want for sorting out the legacy (Y/C and composite) video.

[phoney]

Gotcha. Well, if I'm modding I'm modding, I guess.

[Tillek]

So understanding that everyone has an opinion.... there really is only one thing that matters.

 

Do you want a 1200xl.  If yes, buy it.  If not... don't.

 

Want PBI machine later?  Get a 600xl/800xl later.  Just look for one that is fully socketed if you plan to mod it (though if you're going the 1090 route, you probably don't need to).

 

 

[Tillek]

3 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

This is the one that's going back to the customer imminently, anyway (VBXE, PokeyMAX, U1MB, UAV and SIDE3).

SIDE3 unobtrusively inserted. Bootable hard disk, ATR mounting, cartridge emulation, game loader, 1MB of RAM, RGB video, etc. The only visible external change is the enlarged hole at the back where the RF modulator used to be (now occupied by a DIN13 connector).

 

Ooohhhh.......

 

Need to add the VBXE, PokeyMAX and UAV to my DD... (Already have the U1MB)  Hope there is a video coming

 

[phoney]

1 hour ago, Tillek said:

So understanding that everyone has an opinion.... there really is only one thing that matters.

 

Do you want a 1200xl.  If yes, buy it.  If not... don't.

 

Want PBI machine later?  Get a 600xl/800xl later.  Just look for one that is fully socketed if you plan to mod it (though if you're going the 1090 route, you probably don't need to).

 

 

I guess I want it, ha. How do you know if it's fully socketed or not?

[flashjazzcat]

6 hours ago, phoney said:

How do you know if it's fully socketed or not?

If it says '1200XL' on the badge, it's fully socketed.