Weird cassette and PEB/TIPI issue

[InfernalKeith]

I'm baffled by this one, and I wanted to see if it was something anyone else had run into.  I've loaded programs from cassette while my PEB with TIPIPEB runs, and had no issues, but today I tried to load a tape (original Zombie Mambo cassette from 1983) and as soon as the introductory tone ended, it kicked out with an ERROR IN DATA.

 

Normally I'd assume the tape was bad, but I'd loaded it the day before with the PEB off, and it worked just fine.  I tried that... it loaded with no issues.

 

Turned the PEB back on, loaded a different old tape... no issues.  Tried Zombie Mambo again... instant error.

 

It can't be a TIPI issue because the Pi is powered on even when the PEB is off.  I tried moving the tape recorder as far away from the PEB as it'll go, in case it was an interference issue somehow, but no change.

 

So I have a tape that loads fine when PEB is off, and won't even try to load when PEB is on.  Does this ring any bells for anyone?

 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:48 PM by InfernalKeith

[ti99iuc]

Usually this error come when the program Is too big to stay in Memory and the peb require Memory itself.

You can try to load It with extended basic connected and First of all use call files (1) and the New.

So you try to load the software again.

 

If It Will not be enough, try to do the same using rxb, but use call files (0) then new and load the software.

 

If It still not solve your problem share the WAV file i can try to help.

 

I am Happy you are the Person that have purchased zombie mambo 🤩

[InfernalKeith]

I tried it with Extended BASIC and got the same result.  I would assume if a program was too big in BASIC it would load, then give a MEMORY FULL when run.

 

I double checked it again with the PEB powered down and it loaded just fine.

 

It's not a big deal - I have Zombie Mambo in Classic99.  But now I'm just perplexed as to why this, and only this tape in my experience, would do this.

 

 

[RickyDean]

8 minutes ago, InfernalKeith said:

I tried it with Extended BASIC and got the same result.  I would assume if a program was too big in BASIC it would load, then give a MEMORY FULL when run.

 

I double checked it again with the PEB powered down and it loaded just fine.

 

It's not a big deal - I have Zombie Mambo in Classic99.  But now I'm just perplexed as to why this, and only this tape in my experience, would do this.

 

 

You might try recording to a wav. file then try one of the online or downloadable programs to decode it to a program files then list it and see if it is doing some bad juju, when you try to load on the ti?

[InfernalKeith]

1 minute ago, RickyDean said:

You might try recording to a wav. file then try one of the online or downloadable programs to decode it to a program files then list it and see if it is doing some bad juju, when you try to load on the ti?

That's just it, though.  With the PEB off it DOES load, and runs just fine.   And other BASIC tapes load and run with the PEB on.  

[InfernalKeith]

If was something they did on purpose, it'd make a great copy protection scheme, at least for saving to disk or distributing the file on a BBS.

[RickyDean]

3 minutes ago, InfernalKeith said:

That's just it, though.  With the PEB off it DOES load, and runs just fine.   And other BASIC tapes load and run with the PEB on.  

Understood, then I'll stop trying to help there, as I don't have much experience with the cassette system, been 30 years since I've tried loading a file from cassette. If you could take the sound file and convert it to a disk file you could do a call files and see if it loads from disk, if possible, then that would tell you for sure if it's an electrical issue between the peb and player, of if it is something in the program itself. I was just trying some ideas.

[InfernalKeith]

I do appreciate it!  I've never had a program do this before so any idea is worth trying.

 

My guess right now is that it's size-related.  I was playing around with the version that's out on the web, the modified one that runs in XB.  After stripping that code out, even with a CALL FILES (1), it gives a MEMORY FULL error as soon as you run it.  

 

I tried CALL FILES (0) in Classic99 and that got it to work, but as far as I know that's not possible on real hardware.  

 

So if a CS1 file has size information embedded at the beginning of the audio, I could see where that would kick out, but I'm surprised it does so even when loading into XB with 32K.

 

 

[InfernalKeith]

Okay, nothing to see here, just me forgetting a step!

 

I realized just now that I never had tried CALL FILES (1) on real iron, so I tried that and the tape loaded.  It still couldn't run but I was able to save the file to TIPI.  I was mostly concerned about this happening again with a game NOT already archived online, and worried about one of my upcoming BASIC games, which needs CALL FILES (0) to run on Classic99 and might be too big in it present form to work otherwise.

 

Thanks for playing along while I re-remember stuff I haven't used in 35 years! 

 

 

[ti99iuc]

10 hours ago, InfernalKeith said:

I tried it with Extended BASIC and got the same result.

9 hours ago, InfernalKeith said:

I do appreciate it!  I've never had a program do this before so any idea is worth trying.

......

I tried CALL FILES (0) in Classic99 and that got it to work, but as far as I know that's not possible on real hardware.  

I have dumped more than 400 tapes, and I have to tell you that this kind of problem can happen often with programs that use all the memory.

As for the CALL FILES (0) thing, I can assure you that, as I had written to you in the previous comment, RXB works on real machine with this command and it allowed me to save time and dump software that had this problem.

I thought it was clear what I had written to you but I realized that maybe I had not been clear with my English.

Anyway, I'm glad you solved it

I only own the manual for this game and it would be nice to have the dumped game

Edited yesterday at 10:23 AM by ti99iuc

[InfernalKeith]

Here are both parts, optimized for XB, I thought I got them from here but maybe they were somewhere else online.  Do you have Walls and Bridges?  

ZM1 ZM2

[ti99iuc]

Walls and Bridges is not this one?

 

I have the Manual here:
https://www.ti99iuc.it/web/index.php?pageid=database_cerca&archivioid=273

Edited yesterday at 05:04 PM by ti99iuc

[InfernalKeith]

That's the one!  I definitely don't remember where I got these TImagination listings.  I had forgotten I'd posted that.

 

I'd still like to find PSYBORG at some point.  If I remember correctly from the 1980s, parts 1 and 2 were great, even though part 3 was kind of a letdown.

 

 

[ti99iuc]

I have read about PSYBORG only here on AtariAge from our missed friend @sparkdrummer . On each floppy I dump, always hope to find this game to be able to dedicate it to him.
I only have a picture of the cover's manual and the PDF in the great DVD to the Cyc (by Mike Wright).

3 hours ago, InfernalKeith said:

Here are both parts, optimized for XB, I thought I got them from here but maybe they were somewhere else online...

so that version of Zombie Mambo is not the original dump you obtained from your original cassette tape but a modified version for XB?
I would be interested in the original version when you will be ready please. (if you can and want, of course)

Edited yesterday at 08:08 PM by ti99iuc

[InfernalKeith]

I believe the only difference is the SUB VDP subprogram, and the call to it at the beginning, I don't think any other modifications were made.  I just deleted those, copy-pasted the rest in Classic99 and saved as BASIC so I could capture video of it running at actual BASIC speed (XB speeds it up a little, but not too much).

 

I have work to do on my website this week, to add all the files I've been making videos for, and I will add the unmodified BASIC file as well as the XB-enabled version.  And a Zombie Mambo episode will go up Friday.  There's never enough time for all these things...

[ti99iuc]

absolutely, I can understand the problem of never having enough time for these things 
I will wait for the original Zombie so as to preserve it in the right way, the modified versions are good but, for me,  just an addition anyway. 

thanks for your effort. Lately, I have purchased a new lot of cassette tapes to discover, me too 

[HOME AUTOMATION]

I found these...

 

GAME_10.ZIP

GAME_11.ZIP

GAME_12.ZIP

 

...

[ti99iuc]

@HOME AUTOMATION Thanks for sharing. I will check them. It seems that there is some other missing title in my DB. Interesting.

Walls & Bridge, I have seen some strange lines in the listing, like this. It seems to be the original basic code anyway, but I can't compare it with an original cassette to check the differences between these kinds of lines.

It is a pity I can't find also Psyborg title in these disk images 

[RXB]

On 10/20/2024 at 6:02 PM, InfernalKeith said:

I do appreciate it!  I've never had a program do this before so any idea is worth trying.

 

My guess right now is that it's size-related.  I was playing around with the version that's out on the web, the modified one that runs in XB.  After stripping that code out, even with a CALL FILES (1), it gives a MEMORY FULL error as soon as you run it.  

 

I tried CALL FILES (0) in Classic99 and that got it to work, but as far as I know that's not possible on real hardware.  

 

So if a CS1 file has size information embedded at the beginning of the audio, I could see where that would kick out, but I'm surprised it does so even when loading into XB with 32K.

 

 

I tried CALL FILES (0) in Classic99 and that got it to work, but as far as I know that's not possible on real hardware. 

 

UNTRUE! RXB 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024 can do a CALL FILES(0) on real hardware and works great. 

Edited 4 hours ago by RXB

[ti99iuc]

Thanks @RXBfor this. By implementing this feature on the real hardware you have helped me doing dumps from cassette tapes. A lot of time saved! 🙃